The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world and unrepresented communities as we continue to strive for a more diverse workforce. Join us as we celebrate National Volunteer Month to showcase the incredible contributions of our Chapter Executives from across Canada and globally.
Step into the dynamic world of welding with Taber Hole of ITW Welding, where the fusion of metal meets the spark of innovation. Our conversation takes you behind the mask to uncover the untold stories of the industry's evolution, the value of trade expertise, and the pivotal role of education in forging welding professionals. This episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to see the welding industry through a new lens, where metal and ambition are welded into innovation and success.
Follow Miller Electric:
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@millerwelders
Website: https://www.millerwelds.com/
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Find your Local CWBA Chapter Here: https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/chapters
Thank you to our Podcast Advertisers:
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There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of benefits to build your career, stay informed, and support the Canadian welding industry. https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/become-a-member
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world and unrepresented communities as we continue to strive for a more diverse workforce. Join us as we celebrate National Volunteer Month to showcase the incredible contributions of our Chapter Executives from across Canada and globally.
Step into the dynamic world of welding with Taber Hole of ITW Welding, where the fusion of metal meets the spark of innovation. Our conversation takes you behind the mask to uncover the untold stories of the industry's evolution, the value of trade expertise, and the pivotal role of education in forging welding professionals. This episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to see the welding industry through a new lens, where metal and ambition are welded into innovation and success.
Follow Miller Electric:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millerwelders/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@millerwelders
Website: https://www.millerwelds.com/
ITW Welding: https://www.itwwelding.com/canada
Find your Local CWBA Chapter Here: https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/chapters
Thank you to our Podcast Advertisers:
Canada Welding Supply: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/
There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of benefits to build your career, stay informed, and support the Canadian welding industry. https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/become-a-member
Alright, I checked, checked, I'm good. So I'm Max Ron. Max Max Ron, shitwb Association welding podcast podcast podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
Speaker 1:Attention welders in Canada looking for top quality welding supplies, look no further than Canada Welding Supply. With a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear and consumables. Cws has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part All podcast listeners get 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Can you believe that? Use code CWB10 at checkout when placing your next order. Visit canadaweldingsupplyca now. Canada Welding Supply, your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Hello and welcome to another edition of the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Ron and, as always, I'm checking out what's going on in the industry and bringing you the best guests we can find. Today I got Tabor Holt coming to me from Calgary, alberta, canada, here, the wonderful Wild West of Canada which is, you know, I live right next door in Saskatchewan, so it's always good to have another Westerner on the show. Tabor, how you doing?
Speaker 2:Good, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1:So, right off the top, tabor, let's talk about the name. I'm sure you gotta go through this story a thousand times. Let's make this legit now. So if anybody ever asks you going forward, you just say you know what? Just check out this episode of the CWB Association podcast. They'll let you know. But you know, for me, from Saskatchewan, I think of Tabor, I think of Tabor, alberta, I think of Tabor. Corn, which I was explaining to my friends in Ontario, is some of the best tasting corn eel ever tried. It's magical. Does any of that have to do with your name? It?
Speaker 2:does. My dad was working in southern Alberta at the time that my mom and dad were pregnant and it was the 80s. Everyone started to get crazy names and they said you know what Tabor would be a good name, and that's the origins of the name. I don't. My last name is Paul, so Horn Hall, tabor Hall. I've had endless amounts of ridicule and some interesting nicknames and stuff and I still have somebody put a Tabor Horn sign on my parents' driveway in grade 12, and I still don't know who did it. So I'm just trying to see who will reveal themselves for that.
Speaker 1:Wow, and you don't think about that that often that there's going to be all these nicknames. And you know I had. You know I got a couple of kids. I got made fun of put a bit for my name but, like I mean, I never took it too seriously. I guess it depends how sensitive you are to bullying. Everyone's got a different level but you definitely try to pick names for your kids that aren't going to lead to bullying. You know what I mean. I mean, do you got kids? Did you think about it?
Speaker 2:We don't have kids, but I can tell you that I definitely thought about it. There's some first names that are not going to go with all, and so I think they're pretty easy to pick out.
Speaker 1:Well, what's your spouse's last name?
Speaker 2:Her last name is McGuigan, so it's an Irish name. So it was. She liked switching to full because it was shorter and easier. When she was teaching as a grade six teacher, the students could understand it easier. But yeah, I guess we could have looked at switching either side.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's what I was thinking. Yeah, that's a cool Irish name. You can just switch to that. You know that it can be like Riley McGuigan or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:All right. So, tamar, tell us what you do. What is it? You know, I can see your Miller jacket on here. Tell us what your job is, your day job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually the district manager for Southern Alberta and Southwest BC or Southeast BC for ITW. So I work for Illinois Toolworks, which is the owner of Miller, bernard, trigastus and Holbart. What we do is we sell equipment, filler metals and swimmables and we really started getting into the automation side as well, so we kind of started completing some projects on that side. So basically, the main company that I think you ever recognized Miller, and that's where I spent my day-to-day job supporting distribution, supporting end users, a lot of troubleshooting, and so it's heavily well-infocused.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know I think that it's a generational thing, like if you're younger you'll know Miller for sure, right, but that's old farts. There was a lot of Holbart's in our day. You know we still talk about the old Holbart machine. You know you use it for gouging. It'd never break down. That's the one big crank on the top. But there is still Holbart products out there. There's still Holbart products under the consumables line. I know I've seen cases of Holbart rods out there. I tried their new 718, the thinner diameter one when they came out a few years back now. But I remember I was kind of even shocked to see a pallet of Holbart tins come in because I kind of thought they had gotten out of the electrodes game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know for sure we've actually been doing a push on our Holbart line. The last quarter last year we were pushing heavily onto distribution and end users, exactly like you said, getting people familiarized with the offerings that we still have. You know, like our metal core and flex cores kind of are more predominant line, I would say, in that filler metal world. But that's just something that we've been working towards and Holbart still sells the equipment. They're very equivalent to Miller machine but very stripped down, a lot less technology in them and so for some end users they really like them. We sell them at different kind of more retail.
Speaker 1:Like the Brincess.
Speaker 3:Auto's or Canadian.
Speaker 1:Tires and stuff like that. Yeah, you bet, yeah, awesome. So let's talk about how you got in that chair. So you know what's your, what's your education, you know what career path took you down the road to end up working for ITW Miller.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm born and raised in Edmonton. I was running construction pretty well my entire life. My grandfather owned a mechanical contract and business in Edmonton and they service Western Canada and my first welding shop I went into I was five years old and so I walked through there with my grandfather. He was an engineer. He did all the estimating and the you know, the project execution, a lot of the design work, but he had welding electrical, mechanical all under their umbrella, their company, and so I was always raised around construction. My grandpa was really interested in me becoming an engineer.
Speaker 2:My academics didn't allow that right out of the gate so I was definitely not focused and I think I struggled a lot. Like I enjoyed welding, I enjoyed being in fab shops. I started my apprenticeship as a welder and you know I liked that type of work a lot. But really my dad didn't do it, my grandpa didn't do it, so I wasn't really getting instructed by somebody. Teaching me they were more on the. The business end of it, I guess is what I would say Get your butt to school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think that that's sort of a challenge we have with our industry is all that people want to join it, but not everyone has a garage. People live in condos, you know, out of the town house. It's not like I have a welding rig in the back of my alley that someone can learn and experience it with. So that was, that was sort of my upbringing. But what I ended up doing is I did my first undergraduate degree in business and I graduated business from Concordia in Edmonton. I had a really good time, really enjoyed it. But I kind of pushed off going to engineering.
Speaker 2:And there was an opportunity I saw in the welding engineering space because it was super unique and not a lot of people were in it. And a friend of mine was going to the University of Montana. I had a campus in Butte, montana Tech, and he was studying geotech engineering and he he had known a little bit about my background. He said you know they have a welding engineering program here that you'd be interested in. You like skiing, you like the outdoors. This might be a good fit if you're interested. And so I went down there on a ski trip with them, met with the school saw what it was all about and they kind of started researching it around. And this was in 2009. And the University of Alberta program wasn't really fully set up yet. Waterloo had a program and it's more in the United States, but really Montana made a lot of sense for me. It was a very small group going there and so I ended up going there to do my degree in engineering and specialized in welding engineering and graduated in 2012.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the welding engineer spectrum is struggling with that classification in Canada.
Speaker 1:Still, you know it's, we have what we call many engineering technician courses. So like the wet programs across Canada, we have one in Edmonton now I believe there's a version of it in Calgary, I'm not sure. Conestoga has a large one out in Ontario, waterloo as one. But aside from that we haven't really been able to break through the engineering associations kind of hold on the designation for actual welding engineering. You know, designation under engineering, which is frustrating because it's kind of all over the world and it's in the US which is interesting because the US doesn't really support welding as a vocation as well as Canada does. We support the welding designation much better under a standard nationalized Red Seal program in Canada, but we don't really support the engineering side of it. You know why do you think that is Like? I mean, do you ever attend those engineering association meetings? And they're like, why not us? You know.
Speaker 2:When I applied to become a professional engineer at Alberta, I had all my academics brought forward and so they, they analyzed all my schooling and I was.
Speaker 2:You know, our school was certified with asset in the United States, and so they were sort of confused as well when they were doing my review, because they didn't really understand the classes that we were doing, like 400 level physics of welding classes, things of that nature, and so even a peg who has like 170,000 members.
Speaker 2:They were sort of stumped on it too, and so I think I do two approvals for it to get registered as a EIT, and so I agree with your point exactly is that I don't think people fully understand the academia and even in the application of this they don't really know where it placed people in the work world as well. Because you're a mechanic, I'm similar. I think it was one more semester to be a mechanical engineer, one more semester to be a materials engineer, so you're sort of dipping into a lot of different fields and I think that that that's definitely what makes it uniquely challenging, I think, to be certified, and I think it's something that definitely is an industry we should look into to kind of align that training, I would say almost with end user opportunities as well as the certification. But frankly, there's just so few people going.
Speaker 1:Well, I think there'd be more if people knew it was the opportunity to branch because industry is dying, for it was right now. If you look at industry across Canada, what people do is they hire a materials engineer or they hire a mechanical engineer and then try to cross train them into welding. I've even heard of fluid dynamic engineers getting hired in and cross trained into welding. Well, that seems like an unnecessary step when we could run very successful welding engineering programs in this country at the full. You know engineering level like right out of you know whether it's U of A. You know, because they got the CCWJ up there which all they do is welding stuff, and yet they don't have the designation specific to welding when they're done, which is so frustrating, Like it must be frustrating even for the instructors and the students to be like. Well, I don't want to be necessarily a materials engineer, I want to be a welding engineer which is fluid dynamics, it is materials, it is mechanical and you know, it's kind of a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not. That's a great point. Like I was sitting in meetings last year at ITW in Wisconsin and we're talking about welding experience and when we were finished the conversation I kind of in my own head, was like I don't even think I'm in, I think I'm more mechanical engineer. These guys are getting so much more and that was like my training was welding but my, my work career has been more mechanical.
Speaker 2:It almost seemed like, and so even from that point of view, like filler, metal, welding equipment, design of welds, and like there were so many areas that we specialized in that when you got into the workplace you were kind of using a little piece of everything. But I think if there was a little bit more of a specialization, and especially if we could get it, you know, if somebody like when I graduated I went straight into quality control, that's kind of was a natural fit, and so I was a CWB level one welding inspector and I'm an EIT engineer. And so I went and worked in Compton right near Fort McMurray doing sag deep plants for mega energy, synovus in that little area, and so a lot of it was carbon steel, piping, welding, pressure packages. But I was very ill equipped for that line of business because it was all about regulation.
Speaker 1:That's all procedural. It's all procedural, right. It's all document in, document out, or all the boxes failed. Sign your name next, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure, and like interpretation, the code books at that you know, be 31.3, be 31.1 pressure pipe, power pipe, and so that was a new experience in the work world because really the SAIT program, the web program, they deal with all that, they see all that.
Speaker 2:They see the code books and they see everything that's associated with the regulation side, and so that was kind of a difficult transition yeah yeah, because you're, you know you're working as an inspector, you're an engineer and you're kind of in both worlds and so I don't know what the proper training is for that. Like, if you're a welder and then you want to go do an inspection course, that's great, you get it. But now it's heavy computer, it's heavy codes, it's heavy spec. So I don't know what the right training is for that job. They're great jobs, are high paying jobs, they're extremely stressful. They are. The expectation on an inspector is super high.
Speaker 1:The coffee and the oversight is nonstop.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:And if there is one mistake. How did you miss that? Yeah Right, and out of the 5,000 things you're putting together? So I think that that's where I'm often talking the welding industry about career paths is like I could have gone so many different ways. I wish I would have finished my B-ticket. That would have served me very well. But now on my day to day work I kind of use my business degree more than anything. So it's like I don't know what the right answer is to guide someone in their career path.
Speaker 2:But I know, being in and around the welding world and different jobs, it's there's just so much opportunity. I could have gone NDE route and just done NDE and UT and API inspections and onsite inspections. I could have gone well, procedure development, well, well, procedure development all the time. There's a shop here that deals with specialty. You could go equipment side automation. There's so many different facets within the welding industry that there's just so much opportunity. And as one of the major manufacturers of welding equipment, now we're seeing the introduction of laser welding. We're seeing, you know, different processes coming, coming up and the efficiencies coming through. So it's it's a really exciting time, I would say, to be in it. It's just I don't know what, the right place to go and specialize Well and I don't think there is a right place.
Speaker 1:Like I mean, I just had a phone call this morning from a a recent doctoral grad from Edmonton who's got his PhD done, he's got, he's a registered engineer. Now he's out in the real world at you know, 27, 28 years old and got his first job at. His first job was an inspector. As an inspector, making, I think, 56 or 57 bucks an hour right out, as you know, first job, which, to everyone listening, is really awesome, good for you, great job. He called me today because he's so torn because he hates it. Yeah Right, I didn't go to school for eight years to be an inspector, but why am I complaining? I'm making great money, I'm going to make more money Like this is, you know, this is this is going to blow up and in five years I wouldn't be in the 60s and 70 bucks an hours, which nobody would say oh, that's a good job.
Speaker 1:Everyone would say good job, way to go. But for him, being like my education, this isn't what I wanted to do, even though I do know how to do this. He's like I feel like this is someone else's job, like there should be a welder with a level two doing this instead of a PhD engineer doing this, even though we both can do the job. He's like I could be. I feel like I'm better utilized somewhere else, you know, and I he's like, what should I do? I was like, well, that's a large question to ask because you know, maybe you stick it out for a year and make some money, make some contacts, like I mean, you got to make, you got a network. No matter how you swing it, you got a network. If you want those dream jobs, you're not going to find those jobs sitting at home. So you got a network and this job, will you know, you're going to be a level two inspector, you're doing stuff. So that's going to open up a lot of stuff for you that you can get out there and meet people and through your work I bet you find the company that you can look at applying to to try to go to.
Speaker 1:But to your point, the pathways are tricky and where do you want to go? And you may not end up where you thought you were going to be right. Which is going to lead me to my next question for you. You know you went, you did a little bit of welding and then you said, you know, like you wish you would have finished off that B level which is, you know, journey person, pressure ticket type of level, welder. Well, the president's. And now in Canada, which is very unique, it's happening in Canada cross because now there's a legal president's for but your red seal journey person ticket now has to be seen as the same level as a degree.
Speaker 1:It is the bump and pay it is considered an educational bump. So if you work for a company, they say hey, you know, if you got a bachelor's you get paid X, but if you have a master's you get paid X. Well, if you have a degree and a red seal, you can get master's pay because it's considered an educational bump. And a lot of people don't know that I was actually a part of that process, like eight, nine years ago, because it happened to me. I got hired at the college you know for, like I went to university for philosophy but I had two red seals. Well, I was only getting paid for my university education. I wasn't getting paid for any of my trades education and I was like, how is that fair? My trades education is just as hard and just as in depth. I challenge any person with an engineering degree to go right through red, the welding red seal.
Speaker 1:It's no joke, it's a tough test you know, and if I invested, you know, with two red seals, that's seven years education. If I invested that education into that, you're going to tell me that that's not worth pay. And so, you know, I had to fight it through the union, I had to go through lawyers, and the university I was working for had to agree to say, yes, education is education. Because they kept pulled that stop move and be like, oh, you went to a trade school. And yet then on the other side of it they're like, yeah, go to trade school, it's just as great, but you're not going to back it up with a paycheck. I don't think so, right.
Speaker 2:So don't know for sure, and I think that that's exactly. It is like one of my colleagues that worked with he was a wet graduate as well as a journey and be pressure ticketed Balder, and he knew so much about metallurgy like he he would sit in on meetings with advanced engineers and like he was so strong technically and he could go in there and well that he was certified and then he had the background of the schooling and so it was such a valuable combination to have and he was paid accordingly for it. He's paid very, very well and he should be in and I think that that's a big thing. Hey, is that like, what am I worst versus what do I offer? Yeah, and I think that that's something that always has to be be kind of in the back of someone's head. Is that like am I a profit maker or am I a profit drink?
Speaker 1:That's a tough conversation, especially with young people in the industry. When they come out and they got dreams of making big money or they see mentors making big cash and they think, well, I want to do that. They forget the 20 years of investment that led to that point where you you come out of college, school training or into the trades as not a big profit plus for your company. There's training involved, there's investments. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to need other people to sit in on you with jobs, which pulls them away from another job.
Speaker 1:So for many years, while you become mentored into your you know respective industry, you're not going to be the one that's really championing change, championing process flow, championing profits. You're going to be someone and you and I'm not saying you're lazy, I'm not saying nothing that you're bad, you're trying your best, you're doing your best, but there's only so like you got to learn. There's things you learn from industry and not industry in general, industry specific to like where you're working, because every single shop runs differently. So you got to figure that angle out. Like how do I make this company money, not that company money or the one I was at five years ago, but where I am right now?
Speaker 2:right, Well, I think that that's where the industry is changing, like there's recruitment and I'm in many shops often and you know I can see it in. You know there's a shop down in Lathbridge, a very large welding company, and they pay very high and they have a few mungas staff and I see shops locally here that are trying to retain and their pay is not even remotely competitive and they're unable to get people and their shops are not on public transit and so it's like there is those challenges.
Speaker 2:So I think, meeting young people where they're at and I think a big thing that we don't see, I would say on the whatever, the white collar of the professional side is that they're the mentorship and so people are retiring and giving that person like a month to train and these are 25 year people on that one like a month, and so that that is very difficult for businesses because they don't have the willingness to invest in that that long term mentorship. And I think I think younger people are absolutely want to have someone you know shape their career and show them a good direction and give them options. I think there's just some incredible young people out there that have such a good attitude and I think sometimes there's this joke about younger people oh, they're not working as hard and I'm like they don't see that.
Speaker 1:No, I don't see it either.
Speaker 1:I don't see it either, and it's something that we've created, like we from the 80s. You know I'm a 70s kid, I was born 75, so you know I started welding in 93. So you know early 90s, my career. I would say this is like not a great time in industry. You know it was pretty rough, it was misogynist, it was sexist, it was racist and you know I seen and and kind of still fairly unsafe the big safety movement hadn't come in. We're welding with no masks on stainless and cast and all the, all the things now that they tell you will kill you.
Speaker 1:We did without a second thought and there's people that hold on to that being like those were the good old days. No, they weren't. No, they weren't they're. If today's the good old days, today's gonna be the good days, because now people that are going into the industry are safe and clean and more efficient. And not only have we expect, created these expectations for industry, we've created them for our schools. So all our kids have been raised now in safe, supportive environments where we try not to overload them and pressure them and create anxiety and all these problems, and then we expect them to go back in time 20 years to a shop where that's exactly what they're gonna get.
Speaker 1:Well, no, you can't do that. We have to tailor ourselves as old guys to the youth, because they're the future. We're on the way out like the dinosaurs. As much as we hated our boomer parents and how they worked, that's how they look at us and we got to accept that. And we need to change our language and, you know, be proponents of the change and proponents of the new systems. I agree with you. They're not lazy, they're just being careful. You know they, they, they're not. They're not. It's not that they don't want to do the job, they don't want to do it wrong. There's a few differences there, right?
Speaker 2:well, they're way more efficient but, wait, wait, and it's like we see it, with like engine drives and wire feeds off them and they're doing things way fast, way, way fast and like then this idea and I'm like automation particular like our co-bot will do four times what and well the world do, our robotic cells will do seven times. So the equipment is just advancing so fast and what I see sometimes in the shops is going well, I'm gonna buy this 250,000 dollar welding robot setup and I'm gonna hire someone off the street to run it and I'm going like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This should be like your highest paid person. Yeah, what do you mean? And so it's the mindset changing, because I'll go in shops that have like I was in a shop, they did it $10 million, with automated setup. They have specialists, computer engineers, running this equipment and that is their job. They run it all day, every day, yeah, and their production is enormous, and so it's kind of the the culture change and retain it, okay, so if you want to get someone, to come in here.
Speaker 2:You can pay them, you have to train them like they're not disposable, and I think that that's where good shops are really succeeding and they're bringing in programs and they have you know like we work with red bench on their LGBTQ plus you know, mckenzie and Jolyne redbenchca props yeah, exactly, we work with women in trades.
Speaker 2:We work with all different types of groups from you know, with CWB, with AWS, miller, with ITW, like, and that's where the industry is, is is moving forward and and I think it's good things to to hang our hats on, because there's many men with daughters and granddaughters and sons and it's like we want them to have positive work experience.
Speaker 2:So, I think that that's like working for ITW. The culture is so strong there and that's the thing, like we just don't have conversations that are negative because it's just not part of the culture. And so I see it going into businesses, we see it in the sales side of things, and so I think the industry is kind of there's a fight going on right now between the old school and the new push, and I just think that there is just things that new people are not going to accept. They do not want to miss their personal lives, they do not want to miss weekends, they do not want to work 24-7. I used to work on site. I'd be up there for 30 days straight, come back for three days, go back for 27 days. It was a lot of work and, quite frankly, probably not the best life planning.
Speaker 1:So I just noticed people they want things fair, yeah, and you know I tell a story sometimes and it's very interesting how people take it when I was trying to get out of the blue collar and into the white collar. That's a tough ceiling to break through. You know you're trying to come out off the floor as a welder and you're trying to prove that you have other skills and you can get into these desk jobs that they're not really welcoming to the blue collar people, right, and I would say maybe the supplier side is probably one of the best at bringing in blue collar into the white collar world, but generally it's not that acceptable. And during that process I was basically working two full-time jobs to try to meet expectations on two different things. So I did, I think, 138 or 139 days straight of two full-time jobs, so 16 hours a day, weekends, no time off. I just, you know, did this and it was an insane. I was a zombie, like I was in some other hallucinogenic world where I was welding at all night and teaching all day to try to get a full-time job at the college. And when I tell older people that story they're like, wow, good for you, you did what you had to do. Yeah, put in the time and you got to where you want it to be, which is a true statement. I did, I pushed through, I put in the time and I got to where I want it to be.
Speaker 1:When I tell that story to young people, it happened to me very specifically about two years ago. Someone said what did your kids think about that? And I said what kids? Because I missed their birthdays, I missed their school trips, I missed their, you know, christmas I wasn't home, I was in the field. It was basically a half a year. I didn't see, speak or talk to anyone in my family about anything. So you know, yes, I got to my end goal. Was it the? Would I want anyone else to do what I did to get there? No, no, I don't, and I think that that's something my generation needs to be like, more reactive to. Is that just because it sucked for us doesn't mean it needs to suck for you? How's about we make it not suck for really great blue color people to climb into the ranks? How's about we make that transition easier for them so that they don't have to miss their kids' birthdays and Christmases just to get a better job?
Speaker 2:You know I totally agree and I think that there is a little bit of resistance happening and I'm seeing it in shops like I was in the shop they had very successful. They put in like a million dollars with robotic equipment and it was interesting Working with their young welders and they were very skilled TIG welders running stainless, running aluminum, and they said, oh, he starts at 6am and he starts at 8am and I kind of was like what they were, like that is what works for their life and I was like wow, that is neat. Like I've never heard of that. It's like this is when we go, this is when we start and they work there.
Speaker 2:They work really hard, they're really polite young men to deal with. Like it was just kind of a culture change. I saw where it was like no, this works for me and this is what I need. And it doesn't work like that for every shop, but it was just kind of interesting seeing some of the modifications that they're willing to do for their team to keep people happy and keep people working and I just think that there's more of that coming in. I was in another shop in Calgary and they had every flag of each employee where they were from in the world.
Speaker 2:Oh that's so cool, yeah, hanging up in the shop and so you walk through the shop brand new facility, great guys deal with great guys and gals, and it was very different culture. Like just walking through the very crowd and then the flags and you walk in the front door and there's pins up on the and there was a map of the world and you know they had painpawing tables for social events they did, and like it was very unique for a welding facility to see this kind of cultural change and I think well needed and what's coming, because yeah, it's absolutely needed.
Speaker 1:Like I always, you know, I've, I've, I welded for 27 years on the tools with my company and different companies and in those 27 years I never once had a had a female boss ever. I never once had an indigenous boss ever. You know, and you would think statistically I should have, but we just never did. And that, like I mean I'm just one person. That's something that definitely needs to. Hopefully we're, we're on the path now to correct those things and there is some resistance, but with time those resistances will be gone.
Speaker 1:There was a couple of statements I heard years ago called the terms were knowledge hoarding, that the Gen X and boomers are knowledge hoarders. You know, we figured it out. This is our knowledge. I'm not going to just give it to you. It's like I own it, it's got a fee somehow. But what happens now is that the younger generations is like, well, I'm not willing to pay your weird fee for your knowledge, so when you go, you're going to just go with your knowledge. And then what good did it do? What good did all that stuff I learned do? When I retire and take it with me and then I watch the industry struggle, an industry that served me well, but I'm not willing to give back, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right For sure.
Speaker 1:So this is a perfect time for a break, because when we get back, we're going to talk about how you ended up at itw and then about giving back, specifically because I think that's a big part of what you do, what your company does and also your personal life. So stay tuned here at the CWB Association. Here I am with Tabor whole, and we're going to continue talking right after this break.
Speaker 3:The CWB Association is new and improved, and focused on you. We offer a free membership with lots of benefits to anyone interested in joining an association that is passionate about welding. We are committed to educating, informing and connecting our workforce. We offer you access to your free digital publication of the weld magazine, free online training conferences and lots of giveaways. Reach out to your local CWB Association chapter today to connect with other welding professionals and share welding as a trade in your community. Build your career, stay informed and support the Canadian welding industry. Join today and learn more at CWBassociationorg.
Speaker 1:And we are back here on the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Seron and I'm here with Tabor, coming to us from Calgary. He works for ITW, which is part of the Miller Hobart Turgaskis who else?
Speaker 2:is in there, brard.
Speaker 1:Brard. Yeah, there's a few in there, yeah it's a lot.
Speaker 1:So we were talking about, you know, kind of work in general, great conversation. But for yourself, you know, with a with a business background, a little bit of welding, been in some shops. How did you end up at ITW, you know? Because even out in the West ITW Miller didn't have as big of a print as it does now. So you know, I'm not sure how long I'm doing the timing in my head you broke. You finished school, you had all your engineering stuff by 2009,. You said so you know. Now, what did you do in between? Just getting started, or is this like your first job out of college, you know?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. So I graduated 2012. Okay, right, I was working as an inspector for about six years, and so I worked on mostly, say, the equipment, but then I started just especially compressor projects, and I was a QA manager for a company at Edmondson, and so there's always around welding packages, structural steel pressure pipe vessels, you know, packaging equipment with electrical and running compressor on it running.
Speaker 1:Hydraulic whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like various types of gases on it. So it was like LNG we dealt with, we dealt with oxygen, we dealt with severe H2S, hydrogen, many different types of gases, and so I worked there for about four years, and so the reason I left is the projects just had me traveling so much I was traveling our manufacturers out of Europe and I was just gone all the time, and so I had an opportunity in Edmondson and so right when I switched my career, I kind of got more into the business side, and so what I really started getting into was business development, aka the fancy word for sales. And so what is so helpful about having a welding background on the sales side is that the work that we do is very specialized, you know, on any real type of welding business. So if you, if you this is the conversation I always have is that they'll hire an engineer to do sales. Well, the engineer doesn't have the personality and they'll hire a salesperson.
Speaker 2:Sorry to all the engineers out there, but truth myself included and and then they'll hire a salesperson who doesn't have the technical background, so they can't handle themselves in the meeting. So they there's a real challenge and that's where it opens up the door, I think, for people that have experience in welding and pressure equipment and instruction. And we're starting to see that and they're they're getting labeled business development product specialists, things of that nature. And so how I ended up joining ITW was I was working in a company in Calgary and we did welded overlays and again overlays.
Speaker 3:That is.
Speaker 2:That is something that I never learned in my career in school. I never dealt with until I started working there. Overlays you are welding metal on metal, diluting it together, getting a new potion the metal or G side and that not that you could go your whole career and just that. And so when I talk about the welding opportunities and so what happened was the person in my position was retiring. He had been with the company for 27 years. He was a welder and he had a welding engineer diploma from SAVE as well engineering technologists and so he had 27 years experience, and so they were looking for somebody to take over the role from him. He was technically unbelievably strong and was doing the sales side as well, so it was a very difficult question to staff. I'm not saying that I'm the greatest person.
Speaker 2:There's a pretty specific skills, though it is because you're, you were driven by, you're driven by your sales numbers. Your day to day life is very technical and heavy on the technical side and with ITW and Miller like you're, combining welding wire with machines, packaging and selling a technology and selling solutions. Like solutions, right yeah. Yeah, and so that that term gets run around a lot on YouTube pages.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, there you got to, you got to sell and call and call and it's like it's not really that kind of business, because the people have the equipment. They know you sell the equipment You're competing against, you know, for our market. Really, lincoln is our biggest competitor and Lincoln is very similar to Miller in the sense that they're built in Cleveland, we're built in Wisconsin. I've worked with both sets of equipment on both ends. We have some newcomers like Ronius is coming in. They have different offerings he saw up and so and then we also have a lot of Asian equipment coming in as well and Canadian equipment, and so so it's just a matter of you know, adding value to customers is the biggest part of my, my job, and then supporting the distributor and their sales teams, but also it's it's it's hard to put the person in this seat because you may draw in your technical experience or you may draw in your business experience, but at the end of the day it's all welding centered.
Speaker 1:Well, you know the people that. Let's see how do I put this with as much political softness as I can. So, like Lincoln and Miller, they both have a very similar game plan, in that they'd like to hire people that are within the welding industry already.
Speaker 1:They're not, they're not real keen on bringing in fresh people. So you know they're usually looking for welders or engineers. And when it's welders, are usually looking for people that have journey person or a higher level to convert into sales or development team players, which is exactly to your point right, and a lot of people that have been historically with the Miller and the Lincoln, which in the West was kind of the only two colors. You know, when people talk about ESAP out in the West ESAP's never really hit a footprint and in my almost 30 years on the floor I never had once an ESAP rep walk into my shop and be like hey, it just it wasn't a thing, you know. And for onus, well, they're new on the block, so they're coming around but same like they don't have the footprint. So you're looking at the red and blue and that's kind of like the battle and it was always down to just pricing really, because there wasn't really a this one's better than that or that was. They each had their, their deal.
Speaker 1:Right Now, with the new markets coming in, you got the Everlasts and the Cano wells and the and the Asian backed market, which you know a lot of people will say Well, at the end of the day, every machine's Asian because we, even if they're built in Cleveland, everything still comes from wherever. But be that as it may, what they're really finding is the suffering for anyone that left is the support right. So you get used to having that Miller support or that Lincoln support because that's part of what you're paying for. Like, oh yeah, well, this Miller machine is 26 grand, the link is 28 grand, but the, you know, the Asian version, seven. Well, why would I ever do that? It's like, okay, well, buy it, and then when it breaks down, you're going to spend 10 sending it back and getting a new one.
Speaker 1:Like, I mean, it's, it's, you're looking for that support. Plus, it's the phone call and, like you said, the solution end of it, which is like, hey, I got a project coming up, I'm not sure which wire I should use. There's some of that support which is great to have, because if you're a big company, you have your own solution specialists, you have your own professionals that have that extensive materials, understanding, consumables, understanding. But if you're a under 10 employee shop, you don't know everything and you might be getting jobs walking in the door that you're like oh man, I may have gotten in over my head. Hopefully somebody I can reach out to can help me. That's not going to charge me more, right? It's just part of the service, and and and I TW and Lincoln. Still, you know, not like I don't want to throw the competitors name out in your podcast too much, but it is, um, it is something that's offered, which is that value. You know that that's the value prop there, right?
Speaker 2:Well, for sure and that's part of, I think, our ability to walk into shops is like all often times have to enact our haters to their equipment, find solutions If they're having a problem with our wiring and this, which other Alexa? So we work around each other, we know each other well and like I think that that's the offering that we definitely to your point. Like, do you need the support? Do not. If you're an obvious working in a garage, maybe not.
Speaker 2:If you're running a full blown fab shop, you order 16 grand saving on a machine. You could burn that up in a day. Right, it's like, and that's the, that's really the things that we see and like you know, we invest in our, in our support, but we have specialists down there that are on the machines all day, every day, touching wire, and I know for me as an employee of the company, like I can call down and get a welding engineer on the phone in three minutes and we can troubleshoot something, and so it's just a really unique offering and we are lucky there's very few people base, so they're just such little amounts. You know specifically engine drives, or you know mobile equipment or bigger pipe equipment, right, it's very occurs.
Speaker 1:Well, those, those pipeworks they're pretty slick machines. I've been playing with them lots. I was running my Red Seal students on the on the new pipeworks because of that. The RMD on the open root, meg. That was a win-win situation and I actually had a apprenticeship. Try to come down on me being like you can't use that process to weld on the Red Seal exam. It's like actually show me in the codes where it says it can't. It's unbelievable, code's wise.
Speaker 2:It's perfectly fine. Yeah, oh, and that and that is a problem with the apprenticeship we see, is that wire is year one and then year is three. They're onto different processes and then they finish and they're adjourning man going to do their B ticket and then the shops are saying you need to do RMD or STT On a route and they're going we didn't touch, and so that's something that we're always pushing back on is that we want to see it more involved, more, more in the training and what you're doing. That's exactly. Well, and Alberta's.
Speaker 1:Alberta fights apprenticeship. I shouldn't say that it's a struggle to update the, the apprenticeship model across Canada, some provinces more than others. But you know the modified waveform which you know is the CMT, the STT, the RMD and all the, all, the, all the processes. They are a reality and they're basically becoming standards on all machines. How that must be represented in learning curriculums. You can't have the technology, I'll pay the education Like. That's just not proper, right? You? I don't send, you know, my kid to mechanic school to learn to build a 38 chef. You know he needs to build a 2024 chef because that's going to be the job Right and and that's that's always a tricky thing, but I shouldn't even brought up because that's a whole nother episode of its own that we can get into.
Speaker 1:What I did want to ask you is about the educational spectrum, because that's that's something that I've noticed myself in the last, I'd say even just five years. That itw has been pushing a lot more into is that educational spectrum. It was something that was heavily dominated by other players in the market for a long time and I see now the investments that that Miller itw are doing in education. They have a whole new education branch. Now, you know, in the US Patricia Carr, I think, is running it down there. She's amazing. I'm interviewing her on Friday actually. She's an amazing woman. But in Canada I'm seeing the push to, you know, create programs for schools to give discounts for colleges and high schools on machinery and get you know into that space, which, getting into the education space, doesn't make you money, like that's not a moneymaker. Schools are strapped for cash.
Speaker 1:So if you want to work with schools, you're. You're basically selling things that cost, if not less, just to get your brand in there. But that is a resounding long term effect that I think people are realizing. If like, if, if. If your kids are grinding with Walter 40 years from now, you're going to find Walter in the garage. That's how it works right. And what have you seen in your time with with Miller and ITW? You know change or grow in terms of supporting education.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. You're talking about kids. I was at a trade show last week and the guy was wearing a John Deere hat and his son was like three years old wearing a John Deere and a John Deere toy.
Speaker 3:And he said he said.
Speaker 2:He said you think you guys convert people young John Deere does it when they're like baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like ITW is 100% folks education and like they get a very big discounts for, for you know, lab purchases.
Speaker 2:And so, like a particular in my territory, like Lethbridge colleges, a lot of Miller equipment and state we work very closely with, they have a lot of Miller equipment, and so what I think it is is that they they really truly see the value in the education and pushing this equipment in there. And then also, when we're sourcing the type of equipment, we really want to make sure they have a diverse lineup, and I think that that's something that that maybe as realized, is that we want to see them with the pulse equipment, we want to see them with the proper tag equipment, you know, and if they're going to get into any different alloys and pipe works with the, with the features out of those machines. And so ITW is 100% committed to to education and, I think, to getting the right equipment into these facilities, whether it be high schools we're seeing it as young as junior highs and then obviously the post secondaries, and so we we also are seeing it with our VR uh, welding equipment like our augmented reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got a few at CWB. Yeah, we got a. I think we bought six of them. We bought them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that that has been. You know very. It's a very good tool to have in a particularly high school. What I keep hearing is there is no person to teach.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that this is a huge problem is that we my wife is a teacher. She taught for five years and so if she was going to be pushed into the shop and now teach cause she's a union member and a teaching certificate is that really the right person to teach shop? I don't think so. We should have electricians or welders or you know maybe senior guys that that wanted to do a little bit of a different job front, but it's. I think there's a problem with the way we're doing that.
Speaker 2:And so backwards, you know yeah, and then the VR equipment is great because we're not burning gas, we're not burning wire, we're not burning students, and so I think it's a good way to get someone to introduce. And what I really like about education for you is you're putting a hood on. This will be my job.
Speaker 1:It feels like work yeah.
Speaker 2:And and there's a loneliness to it that's the job right, and some people love it and some people don't, and that's where I think it kind of gets someone thinking like is this really something I could do?
Speaker 1:Well, I was well, I was welding while I was going through university and I was doing my philosophy dissertations behind those hoods. Every night, man Like lots of time to think behind that little blue light, right?
Speaker 2:Well, that's it right, and I think that that's getting people introduced to welding, like, like. The one particular one that comes up is underwater. Everyone talks about it. It's going to be an underwater Like okay, most of the people in our water. Well then, I've talked to it. It's more underwater construction. Hey. Hey, you're down there and you're moving stuff and fix it up and fitting and that's welded. A lot of it is fitting. Is that we have a pipe fitter, then we have a welder. Okay, I've been in fact. So if we do that, the fitters packet bringing. He's welding all day. A lot of shops that go into the welders are fitting as well, and you got a muscle around and read prints and know how to do geometry.
Speaker 2:And like yeah exactly Right and it's like that is not the industry. We're not depicting it well enough in the sense of like these are fabricated and not welders, like they're metal specialists, like and and I think that that's something that when I talk to people considering it, I'm, I'm going, you can go, you start as a apprenticeship in welding. They get experienced and work on shop floor. Then you're on your way to become a super.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So now you need to probably some management courses or whatever but, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a much different career, right, so you can go that full right room to leadership, where you can stay in a shop, or you can go on inspections, or you can go like there's many different options. But I just think that, like when, when we get into the education system, that I have good equipment to use and now they get to actually see about fitting it together, how do you attack it, are you right? And that's, I think, where we sort of the details get this dog the ball a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah like friends, money will say well, my well, my garage, I'm like perfect. Okay, I can recommend you a welded, but you have a chop side, you have a grinder, and then it's going like what?
Speaker 1:and metals and expensive material to just plug away on right, like, yeah you know, I'm just gonna go pick up a little, a couple bars of steel at the shop to put surround in the garage. Well, that's 200 or 50 bucks. It's not lumber, and lumber is even expensive. But when I hear carpenters complain about the price of wood I'm like you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly now, you know, with with the, with the welding machines, you know, and this is now your professional opinion. I'm gonna ask when you said you wanted to get like kind of the, the good spectrum of welders in front of Students, I immediately had a thought, just a pop into my head from an experience last week I was in Milton but would you recommend, like XMT's Dynasties, you know, the pipe works, the dual feeders, like what are the things you kind of put out in front of people? And the reason I brought this up is I was just at a shop Someone plugged in a XMT to do something and it was ticking. It was doing that ticking right, and they're like, are they supposed to do that? I'm like I don't know if they're supposed to, but every XMT I've ever had does I don't know what it is, but that's, I think, that just a thing. They do that.
Speaker 1:Not all welders do that, but I know XMT seemed to and that made me think of that. Like what, what? You know, what do you usually tell people as a good starter industrial machine? Because I mean, there's obviously smaller baby machines, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is too expensive for a take wallet, a dedicated to wallish. That's why I kind of steer away from that. I love.
Speaker 1:I think that the best, while there, I think they're the best big machines too. They really are amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you know, like I, like I personally love like an XMT is the work. That's the ultimate. You can get multi-process on it. It is a great machine. They can plug it into different types of power. And a pipe works machine Like some of the labs that you have a pipe works, they have an XMT and then they'll have a take while there'd be a max or a dine-steer or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think it depends on what the students are gonna be touching, like if they're gonna get into thicker aluminum and they want to AC tape and we're talking about a little bit of a different machine. But I really like the XMT. It's very useful, some Value, super reliable, and so that's kind of what we see with labs is that they'll take their equipment for five years and they're creating, get new stuff so that that stuff is sold usually before it gets there. Pipe works are a much more expensive investment, similar to the Lincoln version of it. So I like it. For pipe yeah, because it has characteristics for the curvature of welding on pipe. Is everyone gonna see that and touch that? Not necessarily, and that's where it depends on you know, if I'm running a Training facility in Edmonton for Nate welders. I want them touching pipe. I want them touching curved Services. Right, if I'm running us you know a shop and, let's say, flat bridge, where we spent a lot of time they, those, those graduates, might go out and do a lot of manufacturing deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, so so their experience could be different. But I kind of like the universe, the the universibilities of one machine with multi-process like that, especially Depending on their budget and how much equipment they want, because it is very Awesomely to to put these labs and it is nice to have multi-process machine.
Speaker 1:Now I was very, I was very fortunate to be in a very good shop at Sasspoly For so many years. We had a bank, xmt's, a bank of dynasties, a back, a bank of pipeworks, you know, and then a bank of Lincoln's and then four STT's, so like you kind of have the pick of the crop. But over the years of working with the different machines it was like okay, level ones. We're gonna start on the XMT's right, because this is very multi-purpose, very easy to move, not a lot of buttons. There's still tactile knobs that kind of make them feel more comfortable with what they're doing. Less mistakes, because it's actually like a thing you got to move and you and then the pendants came out for them that you could even Then run pulse and all the other toys on them just by buying the pendants, which was nice because these are 10 year old machines that suddenly are just as good as new ones with just this.
Speaker 1:You know, $300 add-on Dynasties were for Tig class, these are for the tiggers and guys are gonna learn how to take properly. We're gonna play with the frequencies. We're gonna play with this, with the waveforms. We're gonna show you the difference between the pulses and the timings and the prees and the posts and all that stuff. But you know you need a 10 minute startup time before you strike an arc because you got to go through all the settings and then the pipe works is what we used for the red seals. So, like this is now again back to multi-process. But this is the machine that's not gonna break down, you know it's not gonna hiccup, it's gonna have everything. And then, plus this, the senior, the synergic aspect of it Is that it gives you a lot of feedback so you can you can really let the machine do the work really. And it's got the memory card so the students can save all their stuff, save all your settings. Then on test day there's no freaking out about what your settings were there on your SD card. Bro, you're good.
Speaker 2:No, no, for sure, for sure. And I think that that's the the understanding of industry, like talking with schools that like what, what is the market? Where do people want to work? Are they gonna see alloys? Are they gonna play? One of the shops I worked in we did overlay with submerge, our down to inch and a half ID. I Never, I never even heard of all these sub works I've ever seen. We're on Ten inch and wider like yeah, like giant bastards like what everything, what?
Speaker 2:and so that's the like. You get into industry, you start seeing stuff and you're like what are we talking about?
Speaker 1:and like what size wire are you using? Just like a little tiny wire on a sub arc. Like what the heck?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and that and that's like that. I think the good thing about you know, when you leave a trade school or if you're in a wet program and and you get to see and touch and feel the equipment, because you're gonna have a lot more experience in the field and you know, like Flux core and position, or if you're gonna go metal core, like you're just seeing the options out there and then and I think that that that's what makes this this type of job changing is that you're you're just jumping in and out of process.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is you're like sub arc, sub arc won't have you, sub arc would do metal core between where now we're going straight, no co-op, we're doing a liquid cooled, and then it's like so that's where Experience really helps, is that you're able to speak on the different processes and see when these efficiencies come from and and what value you can add. And and I think that that's that's where welding gets a little bit. We're sort of in this. This exciting time, I find, is like the technology is really starting to jump and like Laser welding we were learning like my.
Speaker 1:Two years ago, laser welding was an 8x8 booth at Fabtech USA. Last year it was a 40 by 60 booth and it was nuts Like I'm talking about a three-year spread there.
Speaker 2:I think it's Exploding yeah, absolutely, and I think that that's where the excitement is coming is that we're starting to see some investment in it, because the cost of gone astronomical and labor costs, hero costs, and so I think now we have a little bit more of a focus on it, where Automation, new processes are really starting to come in, so it's a really exciting Time to be involved in it. The other thing I've noticed maybe I'm unique in this I'm seeing a lot more metal construction, design of Infrastructure, like bridges, way more exposed metal, buildings, way more exposed metal. So, like our X and T lineup, six, fifties, four, fifty, three, fifties Infrastructure in the United States are just Insanely busy, and so Metal is becoming more needed or required.
Speaker 1:The designs are changing as it's recyclable and metal is green. The steel industry is a green industry and people don't realize that we're about as green as it gets like, yes, we have to use fossil fuels, but we'll figure that out as as, because it's just the electricity we're after. We don't really carry electricity comes from, you know, but nothing is more recyclable than steel, like nothing. Well, glass, but I can't build buildings a glass yet.
Speaker 2:Anyways, we're sort of the seed. The steel is becoming more and more pure. Yeah, because it is being recycled, filtered, clean Riedon reef smell to read, and metal is the steal that we problems with. We're not seeing it because it's in your exact but correct. It's so much more pure and and and easy to well bomb. It's just, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:What do you do with stubborn customers? You know, like you get, the customer is like man, I need to make more money, my dang shop needs to be upgraded. And you go, walk in the door and you're walking back into the. You know the 1970s and you're, but it's a successful shop and they got cash and they. They have an idea that you're gonna help them, but they're also gonna struggle with the new tech and they're gonna struggle with the transition. How do you? How do you approach?
Speaker 2:that you know. We had a client just like that. So we went into their shop and they're wallowing your thing. Make with oh four, oh wire, which? Is a very nice size yeah. Yeah, very unique size and not that big quick.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it's all the equipment, though Miller has a team that we call it yeah T process improvement team. So what we do is we'll come into your shop, no cost. I call by the opportunity and see like, okay, they need like whatever Ten machine, something like that. We want to be over a certain amount of his or his investment. People travel and see it. So what we'll do is we'll go through your higher.
Speaker 2:We look at your filler metal, we look at your type of cylinder, we look at your machines, we look at everything and then we're able to actually quantify the losses that you are having per year based on your setup. So, for instance, this client we were able to show them on a Pretty detailed sheet saying, okay, if you switch from 040, nick, or just running we were to an 045 metal core on a pulse setup on a new machine, we were able to get you this many efficiencies. Then we were able to jump on their hardened steels and go from an 040 to an 052. So just in those safe I mean mad hours equipment and grinding discs and Everything. Yeah, yeah, I think we're able to get them in now.
Speaker 1:How much story? $275,000. Wow, that's amazing and that makes people be less. Let's put it up less of a fight with like, wow, I'm losing that much money.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure. And so then the feedback often get is like we can't afford it. Right, this equipment is too expensive, whatever, and I go okay. Well, I've met with a lot of leasing companies, so you can lease many rigwelders.
Speaker 2:This is a ticket to ride in my opinion. So you know full setup. If you have an RMD with the machine it's very I understand that it's. It's a huge investment for your business. That also pays out. Yeah, R&D feeders off 400 Ike works machine a more than some of the other machines. So that's become very popular for for mobile welding equipment. But I work with leasing companies. They know Miller, they know link and they would know equipment and don't you guys have ready, aren't you?
Speaker 1:don't you guys own ready arc too, like we?
Speaker 2:do not own ready arc. We work with ready arc a lot and ready art. It rents everything. But, yeah, problem is is getting a Smart feeder on a piece of equipment that can run and that's where they're not as available, and so I've worked with leasing companies, given people options, and so I think we're able to get a big blue 400 and a skater down to like $800 and lots on the lease.
Speaker 2:We can then deduct it against his business. And so really kind of changed his mind, because I was saying like you're a rig welder, now You're a business owner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are not a well. Yes, you're, you're performing your services welding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you are a business owner but you need to make business decisions and cash flows super important, and then we kind of had a different conversation on it. So he was, he was able to lease it to the company. Then they did like a 66 month lease it, whatever, but it was kind of we can do that with that. People can do them with shops there's there's financing opportunities, and so that's the way I answer those questions as I go. Here's what we can prove in terms of a technology change. But if you are worried about financing, then here's an option too. So I think it's just sort of I'm thinking with the welding side and then the business side. I think that that's where people feel, you know, either they, like me, say great, this is good, or you spoil this see a later.
Speaker 1:Well, it turns into that hole. You can't, you can't afford to not Keep. Keep it up, because you know, eventually industry leaves you behind, like I mean, businesses come and go, and it's not because you do bad work. Everyone thinks that companies go under because they did about work. No, companies go under because they don't keep up with the process. Right, that's what. That's what buries a business. It's not work. There's enough work for everybody if you're on top of it. Right, it's just a matter. Are you up and keeping up with the processes? Are you staying with what the industry best standards are? The you know what? What's going on in the world? Because people that are out there tendering jobs are looking for not just good work. Everyone says they're the best. Well, what are you doing to separate yourselves? You know like, well, hey, we got new equipment, hey, we got nice stuff. You know like those things might tip the scale in your favor, right?
Speaker 2:I, without a doubt. And and that's exactly a competition like Okay, what's your factor diamond green inch cost? Okay, this shop does it for $50 an inch and they're doing a whatever Make root with a stick, cap and fill. Then the shop side of it is doing metal for root, metal for fill. Well, their efficiency is way up, so now they're. Their pricing is $50 back here. So these guys are 42. Yeah done yeah.
Speaker 3:Very sorry it's not that.
Speaker 2:And the other thing I tell people yeah, up your efficiency and down your man and our requirements. So that means, instead of having nine welder juniors up, well, I don't like that. You know what everybody I say that, yeah, they're all screaming for yeah, you're gonna need more, no matter what. Yeah, I'm like hey, those guys more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So one of the things that that I know you are part of it and the whole kind of you know, the way you got on this podcast today was because we were doing a call out to the chapters across canada saying, you know, send us someone from your chapter that's doing cool stuff or that's a part of the industry. You know you're here representing the Calgary chapter, which is I was just at a wonderful Calgary chapter event, the at the state aero, the aeronautic facility there, and which was super cool. Um, so I wanted to ask you about your involvement with associations, and it's not necessarily the cwb, because, as an engineer, as a welder, myself included, there's multiple associations that were a part of throughout our careers. Right, you know, I still have my aws membership, I still receive the journal, I still read through it, I still hang out with my aws buddies Everything I go to the us. So, in your opinion, you know, like, how important are associations to this industry?
Speaker 2:It is such a small industry, it's super important, I think, to be a part of them, um, both professionally and also troubleshoot. I think that that is where I get it on the contacts and and it's not even about like a networking I'm gonna sell people equipment. Now I'm in this role. I actually don't deal with people that much on that side, but I'm part of aws and so it's our alberta chapter, so I'm a chair for aws. I'm in my second year of that, and so I've been involved with aws since, uh, I think 2012. I think it's the first try of my membership, and so aws and cwb are Similar right, we have america and canadian, and so, and then now being involved with the, they're all, uh, the calgary chapter of cwb, um, I find that these events are super valuable to go to neck the network, and I have Colleagues that are they own their own specialty engineering companies that now a friend of mine asked. They said you know, we're trying to figure out new markets, and I said this is the person I connect to Reach out to them, tell them I sent that and say you, and so that they kind of know what's going on. And so then a colleague of mine works for um, the alberta government, and they're doing some research on different welding techniques, and so they reach out to me and asked if itw would Uh donate some equipment for them to do this testing, and we were more than happy to do it.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of both sides and get to work together and and you get the seeing technologies, you get the be involved and and see the industry, you get to see, you know where is their job shortages. Oftentimes you recruit and say, hey, you're graduating soon, we're looking for a new automation specialist, or I think it's really good for for people to get involved. Um, in terms of AWS, will then sponsor someone like the red bench. The red bench is getting women into the welding industry and so it's like it just kind of spins off. We do golf tournaments, there's. There's many things that I think professionally serve and personally serve as well, and I think that being part of these groups and attending the events is just you get to meet people that are very like-minded and connect in a way that I think is pretty unique to our industry.
Speaker 1:Well, and the volunteerism means that they're there to contribute. Like as soon as you get a group of people that are willing to volunteer, they have an agenda. It's a good agenda. You know what I mean. It's like they feel like they are either there to learn or to give, or both Right, and and that's a good vibe to be a part of you. Like you said, you go to these meetings anywhere.
Speaker 1:I attend meetings all over the world and every time I go to them I know I'm gonna make a few friends, I know I'm gonna learn something and I know someone's gonna ask me for my opinion on something, because I, you know, I'm an expert in the things I've done, which are unique because everyone's path is unique, so there's specific things that I can help somebody with and save them a ton of headache of trying to figure it out on their own, and that you know I was a chapter chair for the cwb my chapter in Regina for a decade before I even thought about ever working for cwb, and I got a lot of value out of it.
Speaker 1:Now, honestly, professionally, it helped my career immensely with the connections I made and getting you know my story out there for what I was trying to do in terms of advocating for the community. And you know, I saw this, this skills gap, coming 15 years ago. I was like man, we're gonna be screwed in 10 years. And then, all of a sudden, everyone's running around with their hair All fire, being like we're screwed. So you know, what are we gonna do about that? Well, we, we got to bring this industry down to the street level, where people can access it, understand it and be a part of it, and it's and it's not weird, it's just a part of our society, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally agree, I think it's it's a way to get introductions to it. Like we sponsored aws, sponsored of stem events, so science, technology, engineering, in a small school district just south of Edmonton, and so I think the ages were like grade three to grade nine, young ladies, and we sponsored some, some of it and I think that that was kind of a way people to see it. They, they, you know, built a I think it was a spaghetti bread, things like that.
Speaker 2:So you're starting to see things and you know, some of my peers are head welding engineers for R&D and their women, and I think that that that's very important for younger Women to see as mentorship for themselves, and I think that that's where these associations are kind of breaking down barriers, for sure, and and I also think like from a you know, yes, we compete with other companies, but when it comes time for a golf tournament to raise money for students, I'll even reach out to our direct competitors and say kick it some dough, sponsor a hole and they're in like it's people are Are 100% it's agnostic.
Speaker 2:This is a neutral ground everyone like yeah, yeah, they're great, well, they're awesome, but and so I think that that's where we get to see it Is that you get some, you know and and, and I truly feel like they're, they're enjoyable experiences, great work. When we were at the event together three weeks ago or two weeks ago it was, it was great. We got to, I got to learn things about aviation and and I think we're we're switching it in ways that that are not Not necessarily just welding focus, but, yeah, they do the welding presentations the whole joining world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, and I think starting that engine was super fun, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:And I think, like when I show people something like an augmented reality welder at a trade show or bring it somewhere, you're really starting to view people's it, but they're going what? Because there's the Apple goggles now are popular, but I'm going. Both us and our competitors have had stuff like this for years, and so it's really starting Industry and I'm finding that the where these events and you're going on communities, they're interacting with people that that are not necessarily aware, but it's it's, I think it's really starting to help Change the image, because the image is glamorize the industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the image was bad for a long time. Yeah, and and I think that that it's taking decades to fix yeah that's true, it's true.
Speaker 1:Well, I agree with you a hundred percent. Man, we're at the end of the show here. We're out of time. This has been a fantastic interview. One parting question before we we go here. If anyone's out there and they're interested in looking into itw services or even a career Opportunity, how do they get a hold of their local rep? What do they do? What's the best way to get a hold of of miller?
Speaker 2:You can actually go on miller worlds calm and then type in your area and it'll say who can I contact? It'll potentially connect you with a number of distributors. So that is one way to do it. The other way to do it it's just all itw on their website. They'll have different one eight hundred numbers one for Canada, one for the United States and then they'll connect you with your. My role of district manager and emits and there's two district managers is this manager Vancouver, ontario, all across In these roles and I think, yeah, just getting in touch with anyone from us.
Speaker 2:We're always hiring. They're always having job postings for really across North America getting to Europe as well, so I think that we're always looking for people that are interested and if anybody wanted to get involved with one of the associations like AWS or CWB, what's the best way to do that?
Speaker 2:The thing on the on the website. So if you put in Alberta American welding society chapter, you go on there, it will have the listing of all the events and then on that page They'll be an email to contact. And obviously feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. My first name, tabor last in bowl. Just look me up on LinkedIn. Or else you can email me at taberhole at millerwildscom. Bug me, I can try to connect anyone and for CWB same thing, all the chapters, if they have a Home page, and then there's a contact and it's a general, a volunteer good, that was a skill testing question.
Speaker 1:I want to make sure you actually knew. So All right, man, will I really appreciate it? Any shout outs? You want to send anybody your hollows?
Speaker 2:No, I appreciate being on it screen. I've had an exciting career and I I enjoyed it and both the helping side. I think I think that People need to get involved and, yeah, I think there's a lot of potential out there.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thank you very much and I really appreciate you taking the time today to be on the show. Thank you very much, awesome, and for all the people that have been following along and and making the show as fun as it has been. Keep sending me the listings. It's been a busy month. We got lots going on. These episodes are coming out for the national volunteer month we got we went through black history month. We got women empowerment month coming up. We got fabtech Canada coming up in June, that we got the national trivia night March 21st. There's lots of things happening and, of course, we've been getting lots of interactions from online, lots of guests being sent to us through the instagram and and linked in. So always reach out at any time, really appreciate it and stay tuned for the next episode. We'll see you over there. We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 4:You've been listening to the CWB association welding podcast with Max Serenad. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced by the CWB group and presented by Max Serenad, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.