The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Replay with Jill Timushka and Max Ceron
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world to share their passion and give you the right tips to stay on top of what’s happening in the welding industry.
Please note this episode is a replay, bringing you a blast from the past.
Today's guest is Jill Timushka, Red Seal Welder, and Regional Coordinator with Apprenticeship Services at Canada's Building Trades Union in Alberta. Growing up, Jill was surrounded by welders in her family and it wasn't long before she fell in love with the smell of burning E-6010. With over 20 years of experience in the welding industry, Jill strives to empower and promote welding as a career to women through her podcast, Trailblazers Inc.
Trailblazers Inc:
Website: http://www.trailblazersinc.ca/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1g6-CTCOWZI2YGcK1bZ70g
Canada's Building Trades Union: https://buildingtrades.ca/workforce-development/apprenticeship/
Thank you to our Podcast Advertisers:
Canada Welding Supply: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/
Miller: https://www.millerwelds.com/products/mobilearc
Canaweld: https://canaweld.com/
There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of benefits to build your career, stay informed, and support the Canadian welding industry. https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/become-a-member
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
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Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to another edition of the cWB Association podcast. My name is Max Suron and, as always, looking all over the country in North America for the best talent, best voices and best stories I can find, today we have a wonderful lady who I have been running into all over the place for the last couple of years at different conferences and meetings, because she is involved in seemingly every project out there. We have Jill Timushka coming to us from Calgary, just outside of Calgary, today for conferences and meetings, because she is involved in seemingly every project out there.
Speaker 2:We have Jill Timushka coming to us from Calgary, just outside of Calgary, today. Jill, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to the chat. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like I'm among professionals, because you also have a podcast.
Speaker 2:I do have a podcast. Do you do mine all day'll do yours? Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 1:We could do what we call a cross pod. I'm totally down with that and you know, I feel like I'm going to be graded now. Are you going to be like, no, I wouldn't have done that, I wouldn't have said that?
Speaker 2:You have way more experience than I. I think I have 20 podcasts. You have like 140 by now, 130 some last time I checked Wow, you're the pro. You'll be judging me, trust me.
Speaker 1:Well, let's just start at the start. All right, so you are just outside of Calgary right now, but is that your birth land? Where are your roots from?
Speaker 2:I was born in Edmonton and when I was three we moved to Medicine Hat, which I spent most of my life. I have lived up near Calgary for the last 10 years. My son and I'm a single mom, been a single mom for 18 years. My son is 19 now. He's still with me, so him and I moved up here 10 years ago. Yeah, we love it up here. We really really love it up here. Medicine Hat was fine, but you know it was time to move on. There's a lot more to do here and I love the mountains. I need to be closer to the mountains, right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I've never left. I've never lived anywhere other than Alberta.
Speaker 1:So why Calgary over Edmonton?
Speaker 2:There's more to do here and it's closer to the mountains.
Speaker 1:Oh you're going to get some people saying, no, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:I know, but I'm an Oilers fan. Just to make it, even I'm an Oilers fan. My dad was an Oilers fan, so was my son, so the.
Speaker 1:Oilers the Oilers stadium is absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I was there once. A friend of mine took me to an Oilers game once. I have been to a few more games here.
Speaker 1:Usually when the Oilers are playing. So you are born and raised in the province of Alberta, a province that is famously known for its trades and its trades programs. It's, you know, in many ways has been historically a leader in the trades and is one of the only provinces, if not the only province, where welding is a compulsory trade provinces, if not the only province, where welding is a compulsory trade. So you know, in your bio and the research of you, of yourself, you spoke about the trades being a big part of your family. So talk a little bit about how that influence was in your home growing up as a young woman.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, it's really, really funny. I grew up with welders all around me and I never thought about becoming a welder until I was in my early 20s, which is going to date me now, but that's okay. So my dad's a welder, my grandpa's a welder and my great grandfather was a blacksmith. I have a lot of uncles and cousins that are welders too. I am the first female in the family, so my mom is the oldest of five girls. I'm the youngest of three girls. There's lots of girls in my family, not very many boys. So when my mom was growing up, my grandpa always wanted one of his daughters to become a welder and none of them did so when my mom met my father. So my mom's dad was the welder, not my dad's dad, so it kind of hops over. So my grandpa taught my dad how to weld, and then I think it was the early 70s. I have his stuff on the wall over here, my plaques and stuff I've got everything on the wall.
Speaker 2:I've got the four generations on the wall over here now. It was the early 70s that my dad got his certification. Now, I didn't grow up with a welder in the house because when I was five, my mom and dad split up and they got back together, strangely enough, when I was 17. So my mom always tells the story that my dad took the garbage out and didn't come back for 12 years. So it's like a family joke, right, anyway. So when I was 17, my dad was back in the house and whatever. I was moving out and I was doing my own thing. I was living my life and never really thought about that. I was a waitress at the time, right, I was working in the food and beverage industry, which is a respectful industry. It's not as easy as people look. I think everybody should do a little time in the industry.
Speaker 1:I couldn't handle it.
Speaker 2:I would fail in minutes yeah, I couldn't how hard it is. I would fail in minutes. It's. It's hard and people you know, anyways, I won't get on that, um. But then I was looking for like a career, right.
Speaker 2:So I sat down with my mom and dad and I thought mechanics was really cool. I'd love to fix up old vehicles. I used to go to the drag races and stuff and I really would love to like fix up a drags, like go drag racing and have the vehicle of you. Know that I? I worked on myself but all the mechanics told me I would hate it, I'd have busted knuckles, I'd swear a lot, which who says I don't? Um, anyways. But uh, mom and dad said, you know why not get into welding? So it's like, well, I can try it with my dad. My dad has a business, he could get me started. So I tried it and I loved it. I love the smell of 6010 burning. I still do to this day. It's like campfire to me. I wrote a poem one time Maybe I'll send it to you. I wrote a poem about how much I love the smell of 6010 as well. It's like apple pie to some people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like the fresh newspaper.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's great. I can smell 6010 from miles away. Somebody's welding, somebody's welding. I can smell it, right Anyways. So I really loved it and I got pushed into first year way earlier than I was ready for, so my marks were terrible when I passed. I made it, I got into the industry, I started working and and really that's my rundown of how I got in but yeah, I still in Saskatchewan and in in Alberta I still have relatives that are welding. My dad passed away a couple of years ago. My grandpa never knew I ever became a welder. He passed away when I was 15. So but you know what I feel them. Yeah, they gave me a lot of.
Speaker 1:It's funny how you say you have your generations of welder. I have all my dad's certifications here. My dad was a boilermaker for his whole career, you know. And we come from south america. We're full of miners and people that work in the mining industry. So we we keep some of the same stuff, that history, in our families. But you know, there's some years there where I'm interested to know.
Speaker 1:You know what your thoughts were because you know you. You grew up knowing about the trades. That's kind of like step one, because a lot of people say why don't we have enough kids in the trades? Well, you don't know what you don't know. So if your dad was a banker and your great grandpa was an accountant and you're, you know, and there's not a single trades person in your family, which for decades was what society was trying to do is create all these professionals, how would you ever even be around, even for a conversation about the trades? So you already had that barrier out of the way. It was something that was, that existed. But you know, coming up through high school, what, what was it that you thought you wanted to be? You know because you know, from high school to 24. There's a break there and you can't tell. There must have been a dream you had, you know well, there was, you know, what I knew.
Speaker 2:What I knew for sure is I didn't like sitting in the classroom. I hated it. I hated sitting there and being forced to learn things that I would never use. Um, and I I don't promote, you know, dropping out of school. I don't. Everybody needs their grade 12, in the very least. I knew I didn't want to go to school for another four years, five years, anything like that.
Speaker 2:So I wanted to do something, and I like to work with my hands, and even from a small age, I was always fixing things. Right, I told you that my dad and my mom split when I was five. I was the one that fixed things around the house, even when I was young. Oh, we need to. You know, something needs to be painted. Get Jill to do it, you know I would. I would try anyways. Right, I put my own doll strollers together. I loved all that stuff. So I knew I needed to do something along those lines. I knew waitressing and you know I did think about owning a bar at one point, but with all the laws and stuff, the headaches, forget it.
Speaker 1:It's a ton of work.
Speaker 2:It is a ton of work and no thanks, no thanks, I don't know. I've always been kind of proud of finished products or projects, even products, projects. So to me I kind of think I would have ended up in some. So I probably would have been a mechanic but I probably would have ended up in some sort of trade anyways. I just I think I would have been a mechanic but I probably would have ended up in some sort of trade anyways. I just I think I would have. It would have been harder for me to find that right had I not had the support of my family. And I mean, honestly, the trades were not offered to me when I was in high school. Sure, go to home, ec. Sure go to. You know food studies? Right, that's what we called it back then. Go into. You know biology, which I hated? Um, who wants to dissect anything?
Speaker 2:blah, right except for my steak right yeah, well, I don't even, I don't even eat meat. So no thanks.
Speaker 2:I'll dissect cucumbers and carrots and lettuce. I'm a good gardener, see, I could have gone into greenhouse stuff. Um, yeah, I think I would have found something. I don't know if it would have been welding, but I so love welding. Had I been able to take a course, like they offer to women now, or anybody now, where you can try all those trades, I honestly think, well, the being welded would have been my thing too. I do say it runs in my blood because of being the fourth generation, really but yeah, I would have found my way. I think somehow. Uh, but yeah, I would have found my way. I think somehow.
Speaker 1:And then you know, as you decide with your dad you know his company to get into welding. What kind of welding did he do? And it was that the type of welding you wanted to do, because welding is a vast spectrum and you know, even when you say 60, 10, as soon as you say 60, 10, you've already narrowed it down to Saskatchewan, alberta and Midwest Southern US, because these are the only places running F3 routes. Everyone else is off 6010 20 years ago. But you know there are certain geographies where that 6010 life is.
Speaker 2:I couldn't imagine welding an open root pipe with anything but 6010. I have done it with MIG, I've done it rolling. Obviously we call it spooling with MIG and to me it's just not the same, but anyways, to me I wanted to do. Well, see, there was a lot of different variety in my family too. My grandpa was an inventor and he, he did a lot of really cool things, but it was all stick welding back then. So that is, you know, automatically goes to that. But he also did a lot of artwork. He did those beautiful logs. Every one of his daughters has a log of a different kind. One has a lamp, one has an ashtray, one has, you know, a bunch of stuff. So I am luckily getting all of those now, you know, kind of collecting them because I'm the welder the youngest. I'm the youngest welder and I'm not young. But there's, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just really was interested in what my dad did. He had a rig. I really like the thought of having a rig myself. Strangely enough, he gave me his old rig, which was a 71 Ford F350 with a deck, and I put a 71 Lincoln on the back. 71 might be my year, anyways. I never did run it though.
Speaker 2:Um, life had a different plan for me because I ended up being a single mom. Right, you can't do pipeline when you're a single mom. Um, I just always liked I don't know the. The working at a plant site was interesting to me, so I got into fab shops and I did stuff like that. Um, not to say that, you know, being an iron worker wouldn't be really cool, or a boiler maker wouldn't be really cool, because we all weld. It's just different welds, right. I structural, it's very interesting too, and I've had the structural ticket before, um, and you have to have it now if you're going to do anything. Structural, right, as we know, I don't know, there was just something about the plant sites and fab shops. Those are my, my two favorite things.
Speaker 2:Plant site shutdowns is my ultimate favorite, because it's chaos for about two or three weeks, 12 hour shifts, you're exhausted, but there's lots of people and there's lots of things going on. Oh, my god, you know, something over there has happened. We opened up a vessel there's worse stuff in it where we've got to, you know, renew this whole string of pipe because it's been eaten out by acid. Okay, we've all got to get on it and work, you know, over time. I love that. I love throw chaos at me. I do my best when I'm throwing that.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting because I cut my teeth working for a maintenance shop for the mill. So I was doing shutdowns. You know, at least one week a month we'd do a shutdown Like a mini shutdowns and then once a year you'd do your two or three week turnaround or if they didn't, I'd go hit up the iron workers and go do a mine shutdown because that was some easy cash. You know that you could go out there. I always had my stainless ticket, so with my stainless there's a lot you can do, but my.
Speaker 1:When I got divorced and became a single dad with two kids, I had to stop doing all that stuff because I had and that's when I decided to cause I already at that point had my red seal and welding and I decided to become a fabricator and I wasn't sure if I would like to transition, going to a shop and working. But a old mentor of mine from way back ended up being a foreman for a new division of a company that was just getting into a new product and he's like, hey, we needed someone that I that I know can fabricate, run a crew. Do you want to come work over here? And I thought, well, this is going to be my chance to kind of get into lead hand, you know know kind of position for a kind of a startup.
Speaker 1:And I got my first start into a real fab shop where we're just building and I'm like designing jigs and worrying about flow of materials and how to structure the shop, layout and machinery and all that stuff and I fell in love with it stuff. And I fell in love with it and I would still pick up shutdowns here and there just for like, because it was like you know what, I'm gonna go take two weeks holidays and go up to a mine, because there is something oddly fascinating about that. Like, I mean, you go on a two or three week shutdown, you run into one or two people, you know, but you work with about a hundred and you become friends with everyone by the end of the third week and you're like, you're like best friends forever.
Speaker 2:I know you have that connection and nobody can take that away from you and you know I love that and the chaos.
Speaker 2:The chaos is so fun, and that's another thing I love about being in the trades. I just told you my family is filled with women. My mom has sisters. I only have sisters, I mean, we do. My mom got married, obviously, to my dad, and and I have uncles, and I do have a couple, two male cousins, um, but now I have all these brothers, right, all my traits, brothers, and it's awesome because we give each other such a hard time, um, probably less damaging than growing up with them. I don't have scars from them, well, usually, unless they burn me or something but uh, it's so much fun.
Speaker 2:I have so many brothers right now and we stay in touch and it's all cool and fun. But the shutdown life is really cool Because then you do go to the next shutdown and you see, hey, weren't you at that other shutdown? And oh my God, it's been three years since I saw you at that shutdown. You know, down a medicine hat or whatever. It's so much fun, I love it, I love. I just worked a shutdown last year I have, oh man yeah I've.
Speaker 2:I've been in the office job or teaching or whatever for the last like, say, six years, but yeah, I did a shutdown down there. It was it's the canadian fertilizer plant, that's. You know. I was there even before I was a b pressure welder. First time I think I was there was a journeyman journey person, whatever you want to call it. And and yeah, my dad's work there, my son's father works there. My sister even did some time. She's a nurse. She filled in for the nurse when she was on holidays. Like my whole family has spent time there. It seems my son's half brother is a welder there now too. So it's just like I had to go and I got to be a foreman down there too this time. So it's just, it was like the best. It was hot, though I think it was like 40 degrees most of the time I was there it was either like 9 or 40.
Speaker 1:The last shutdown I did it's gotta be, oh geez, eight years ago. I'm 47, so it would have been like right around 40 years old and I thought I was gonna die, like I mean. I mean, granted, it was with the iron workers. I used to do shutdowns with the pipefitters when I had my pressure tickets, but they've all expired. So I went and did a shutdown with the ironworkers and boy, those ironworkers are a tough breed man. So, like those two weeks, that first week I didn't think my legs would ever work again because we were doing repairs on the main shaft for one of the mines, so there's no elevator. So you're doing like a hundred floors up and down with gear and cables and, and you know, you're watching these 20 year olds run up and down. And I'm 40 year old, my fat ass I lost a lot of weight when I was there not saying?
Speaker 2:12 hour shifts out in the back, 40 in the heat. Yeah, you just sweat it out, you have no choice. When I was at the shutdown, we were working on the high line. We were installing a new high line, a new pipe, anyways, I can't talk too much about it, Sworn to secrecy. You know the plant site rule, right. But anyways, we were up in the high line and up in the high line and I got to work with another female welder. I knew her from my hall but I'd never worked with her before. Man, we had so much fun, so much fun. But I'm telling you, laying on an electrical tray to do part of the weld and then, you know, doing the other part over here and then going round and round because root, fill and cap right, yeah it was, it was challenging. Some might not have been pretty, as pretty as they were 20 years ago, but they're in there, no repairs.
Speaker 2:And it's x-ray too. It's x-ray stuff right, a five or 10%, but it was. But then again you're crawling up the structure, you're doing your wells, you know, you're like basically doing yoga all over, right, and then go down for coffee, come back up, yeah, but it was fun, it was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah was fun, it was so much fun. Yeah, sometimes we just you're in the most uncomfortable spot. Then you just put your head down for a second and you just give yourself like a 10 second break. It feels so good, and then you're like okay, let's get back at this yeah, to me it's more.
Speaker 2:It's more like a 10 second pep talk. You can do this ignore the pain in your neck or wherever the pain is. Yeah, yeah just hold, don't hold your breath, breathe through it and get her done. One more rod and you're good, right? A little pep talk, right?
Speaker 1:So you got into the trades at around 24. You know your dad's got a rig so he's out there working, I would assume, shutdowns chasing work, as most rig welders do, you know you said you didn't follow in that path. So you know what was it that you got into for apprenticeship, where did you do your apprenticeship and how did you get started there?
Speaker 2:I started my apprenticeship at a place called Wiki Waste Equipment in Medicine Hat. I was a little non-union shop. It's a good place to start. We were building you know the BFI containers. They did have you know, garbage trucks and stuff too. They were getting into street sweepers, um, before they shut down they. They stayed another five years after I left. Um, yeah, I spent some time there, I think probably six, well, eight months a year. Oh, it's so long ago. Um, I spent some time there. I learned a lot, met a lot of really cool people, um.
Speaker 2:And then I went to school and after school I decided to go somewhere else. Right, I did a farm shop. I did. You know I have done plant sites and stuff and little shops here and there. But once I joined the union I stuck with the union and just went where the work was Right. Dad did pipeline, dad did a lot of pipeline. So most of my family's done pipeline. That's about the only thing I haven't done. I mean within, within the piping, you know, within ua. I haven't done pipeline just because when I was geez how 32, I had my son right. So then it was. I mean, there are a few, a lot of years there where I got to have some fun and be single and explore and do a little bit of travel. But then I was grounded, as you know, right once, once you have a kid, that's it Like you're staying close to home.
Speaker 1:Well, there's so much pipe work that happens in a shop anyways, right, like all the junctions and the like. In reality, everyone thinks that everything gets done on the field, but really the least amount possible gets done in the field because it's hard to do.
Speaker 2:It's so much better to get her done in a shop and ship it out and then just do the junctions and the joints right. So yeah, absolutely yeah, all the tie-ins, well, and and it's faster to do mig routes and stuff too in a shop because you have that machine that spins it and you can pump them out pretty good in a shop, although these new technologies like the, like these open route like stt, rmd, all these new uh root pipe root welding machines, all position, you know short circuit mig, they just slide in.
Speaker 1:That does all the technology for you. I was, uh I've been, shocked at how good those machines are. Like they say that they're gonna do this thing, you kind of don't believe it. But then they do yeah, I've.
Speaker 2:I've never had to do the position stt rmd, that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:I've done stt but roll uh, yeah so the stt was like kind of foreign to me because I'm old school, give me 60, 10 any day, not loving it so much, but I'll do it right. Um, so yeah, I kind of had to force myself to like the stt and now I'm like, oh my, look at all these new technologies and all this new stuff. I'm I'm well in metal core, right flux core, uh, metal core we used to call mega fill because it's so fast.
Speaker 2:It's like yeah make on steroids, right? Um, yeah, there's a lot of processes that are really really cool, but megan position I've yet to actually see. I'd love to see it though. Yeah, no, it goes in nice goes in nice, does it.
Speaker 1:It gets too hot though. You gotta really slow down like you can't, just like you think, oh, it's me, I'll just start at the bottom and get, like you know, six to twelve, get her done. But there's so much wire coming in, so much amps, right, like you could only go about four or five inches, and you gotta stop and let her cool, because, like she's, she starts to get real hot. The deposition rate just piles in there.
Speaker 2:So is it down hand or up?
Speaker 1:you're going up really with mig.
Speaker 2:I gotta check that out hey, I'm going on a shutdown so you're, you're in with the hall now.
Speaker 1:and in alberta, you know, the ua is very strong because obviously the energy boom and you would have been around for the energy boom probably caught towards the mid to tail end of it before it kind of leveled out and there would have been so much rod being burnt across Alberta. You know, did you really see yourself only as a pipe welder? Do you see yourself still as a pipe welder? Do you see yourself still as a pipe welder? Is that the niche that you live in?
Speaker 2:I don't know. You know, yeah, I have to say, yeah, I'm always interested in trying other things, because I was really involved in that kind of like practicing or testing. Obviously I'm not an examiner, but yeah, I don't know if I could, if I could do structural or or anything else. I have done a little bit of vessel work, right, yeah, but, and I really thought that was really interesting too. But yeah, I think pipes my thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and pipes different. I got a lot of people say, ah, pipe test, plate test, they're one's harder, one's easier. I mean, no, it's really, they got their own things, they got their own. I see just as many people fail a structural test as I see people fail a pressure test, and it's not skill. There's different tactics, there's different advantages and disadvantages to each one. And you say tanks, well, tanks is a whole other world. Like I mean api 650 welds and I would say 90 of the issue with building tanks isn't even the welding, it's the fit up, you know, doing the courses properly and the seams and making sure the thing stays round, which is not that easy.
Speaker 2:Like well, a lot of people don't realize too. Like, even when I was welding like garbage cans, if they were a different, a different style of garbage can, because they're square and there's a weld that goes all the way around them if you didn't stagger your welds and hop around, that thing would distort and be crazy. Right, it's not square anymore, so you really do have to think about stuff like that, and to me that's that's cool because, if you forget about that, then you're buggered right.
Speaker 2:And then what are you going to do to fix it?
Speaker 1:how about just think about it before you start, have a strategy and stick with it right yeah, or maybe ask, ask, ask one of the old hands if there's any tips and tricks, because guaranteed someone's already made that mistake before you yeah, and now I feel like I am the old hand right like I became I was.
Speaker 2:I remember when I was like the youngest on site. I was in my 20s and I was like, treated like the, you know, the daughter of everybody's daughter or sister, and then I was just the sister for a while, right or older sister perhaps, and now I seem to become the mom. Hey, jill, do you have band-aids? Hey, jill, guess what? But you know how could I work this out with my girlfriend? Or hey, my kid did this and he's not feeling well. I'm like why would I know?
Speaker 2:I'm just a welder, let me do my well, I don't mind.
Speaker 1:I don't mind it just well, it's that mentorship, you know which we're gonna get to, because that's a big part of where you are now this, I guess we know where we are, we're the spectrum we live in, but that's. I had the same conversation just this morning with some, with some people, because now the job that I have, I get a lot of random emails, calls, texts, instagram messages and you would think it would be, you know, sometimes really high level stuff, but it can be as much as someone being like hey, this tank I'm working on keeps cracking. What rod should I use? You know keeps cracking, what rod should I use? You know just simple questions like that, and you know what I love answering those. All that stuff you figure out kind of by accident or or by mistake throughout your career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like you wish you could just put it in a book and just let everyone have access to exactly exactly and and you know what I really like to do when when there's apprentices around that are asking me questions which I I have been out of it for like six or seven years, except for that one shutdown I did last year I like to ask them what they think the reason is and what they think they should do to correct it, and why. Like, don't not put them on the spot, just say well, you know why. Do you think that happened? Do you think you're using the like? Did you put enough preheat in that? Is that why it cracked? And did you check the procedure? Because everything has a procedure. Now, what is?
Speaker 2:everything are you using too high of a rod size, because I know a lot of the hot shots come in there and they want to put a root in with 732 or like what some giant, giant like let's put a quarter inch in, let's use a quarter inch in. Let's use a quarter inch rod and then I only have to do two passes. It's like what? What are you doing, Right?
Speaker 1:Hundred and eighty amps. Pile it in there, yeah.
Speaker 2:And sometimes even you know, like the hot pass. Sometimes I've had that happen to me where the boss is like you're, you're, you know, we need to go faster. And I'm like you know what I to go faster. And I'm like you know what I understand faster. I understand the inch count in a day. But if I put a fatter rod, like a wider rod, or a fatter pass on my hot pass, my roots gonna droop, right, it's gonna. My roots gonna be too heavy. That's what happened. Oh, why is your too heavy? Why do you have to like, thin it back, right? Well, like, and? But I like to, I like to have other people figure out why that's happening. Right, like, what would you do to correct this? And let's have a discussion about it, because I like to train them to start thinking about that the problem solving, figure it out on your own?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I do that with my kid all the time. Well, why do you think you're in trouble, young man? He's probably like oh, not this again oh man, come on, mom, I just didn't wash the dishes. Leave me alone All right.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what? This is a great time to take a break, because now we're going to go to our sponsors and when we get back, I'd really like to get into. You know where your career led into, because you know we got you out there. We got you welding. You're working in the shops, but now you're sitting at a desk. So something happened. Right, something happened, something happened, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back here with Jill Tabushka here on the CWB Association podcast.
Speaker 1:Looking for top quality welding machines and accessories, look no further than CannaWeld. Based in Vaughan, ontario, cannaweld designs, assembles and tests premium welding machines right here in Canada. Our products are CSA certified and Ontario-made approved, reflecting our unwavering commitment to excellence. Count on us for superior service that's faster and more efficient than market competitors. Whether you're in aerospace, education or any other precision welding industry, cannaweld has the perfect welding solution for you. Visit CannaWeldcom today to discover why professionals rely on CannaWeld for their welding needs. Cannaweld where precision meets reliability in welding. Enjoy peace of mind with our four-year warranty on most machines. Conditions do apply. And we are back here at CWB Association Podcast. My name is Max Serrano. We're here with Jill, who has worked for the UA for a large part of her career, but now works for CBTU. Talk to me about what you do now, and then we'll try to connect the dots between then and now.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, it's been such a journey, man, I'd write a book, but nobody would believe it. So CBTU is Canada's Building Trades Union. I work for Apprenticeship Services right now, so my position is a temporary position. I've been doing this since September and the project ends at the end of March in 2024. So what we do is we offer the apprenticeship grants, which I don't know if anybody has heard about that. There are some competitors that are offering the same grant. We are the only one that offers it to unionized contractors, right? So we work with our affiliated unions and it's across the country. It's a national program, so my position is regional coordinator. I look after Alberta, saskatchewan and Manitoba. I also work with a diversity liaison who works, obviously, in the diversity side, but we both reach out to the contractors. Because I'm heavily involved in union, I'm the one that reaches out to the unions themselves and talks to the business managers and dispatch and kind of creates that relationship, which, of course, is very easy to do because I love the industry, right, I might not know all the trades, but I have a pretty good understanding of how unions work. I've been in the union for a really long time and I love the brotherhood, sisterhood and how things just work and flow. So we have a goal right of how many contractors or apprentices really we want to bring in.
Speaker 2:The whole goal of the program is to bring more people into the trades. So the grant is for new first year apprentices in Red Seal Trades. Each contractor can apply for two new first year apprentices per fiscal year. Our fiscal year ends at the end of March, so our second fiscal year just began, april 1st of 2023. So I spend a lot of time calling these contractors, reaching out to them. If there's an issue with their application, then I call them and say hey, you know, maybe we need an AIT number that we don't have yet, which is their apprenticeship number. It's just we, just we reach out and it's really good connections. I've talked to so many people. It's really good to connect and that I'm passionate about. I'm also passionate about bringing people into the trades right, which I also do on the side, which is a whole different conversation, but that's what I do for a living right now. Before this job, I was working a shutdown, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, it's an amazing program. It's basically $5,000 for a first-year apprentice and $10,000 if you're part of a designated group, which could be a newcomer, person of people, person of color, immigrant or indigenous, I believe. I think there's a few in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Women in the trades, indigenous newcomers, lgbtq+ or anybody underrepresented? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean this is fantastic. You or anybody underrepresented? Yeah, yeah, so I mean this is fantastic. You know, you said there's a number of agencies working with them. Well, at the CWB we have to work with all of them. So we're working with many of the same agencies. Because we don't technically recruit, we don't hire, we don't fire, we don't recruit, we just support right. So we just are constantly trying to direct people to be like oh, you're in a union, you need to go here. You're non-union, you go here. But everyone's got to get in on this, because when the feds want to give money away, you take it.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and part of my pitch is I say you're looking at up to $20,000 for two new first year apprentices per fiscal year. So when we were in the first fiscal year I was saying you can get $20,000 now and then after April 1st, 20,000 more. There are some stipulations, of course. You have to be under 500 employees at the time that you apply. So there are some contractors that are right around 500 or over 500 in the busy time, so they have to wait until they're slower. It's, you know.
Speaker 2:And our program offers courses for the apprentices. They have to take two courses, which are introduction to mentorship for apprentices and introduction to diversity and inclusion, in order for them to, you know the contractor, to qualify for the program to be approved. But the apprentice also gets sort of what I call a membership with SkillPlan, the course providers, which SkillPlan, if you know anything about SkillPlan, they're fantastic and this apprentice can take other courses that will benefit them in their apprenticeship. You know, for the next, you know, three, four or five years, however long their apprenticeship is. So you know, and that that is like, there's mental health in there. There's money matters. There's, you know, help with math. There's help with, you know, pre, you know examination anxiety, there's all kinds of courses that you can take in there. So of course, I think our our apprenticeship, you know pre, you know examination anxiety, there's all kinds of courses that you can take in there. So of course I think our our apprenticeship, you know grants are the best and I'm not just saying that and it's a very simple application for us.
Speaker 1:But anyways, but you know you do have an advantage is that you're catering to the unions because the unions already have an established mentorship program, whereas outside of the unions because the unions already have an established mentorship program, whereas outside of the unions the same people that are trying to work with the apprenticeship, you know, grants um have to supply that mentorship externally because it's not built in to private industry necessarily. I mean there is very few private companies in Canada that actively have a mentorship program in their company and then they wonder why they don't have the retention. Well, you know, mentorship and clear pathways are a massive, massive selling point to keeping good talent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, and with our program too, we, we do allow the contractors to take the courses as well. We, we can send them. It's a, it's a different link, we go through a different way, but uh, yeah, they can take the courses too which are not for the mentee, they're for the mentor right, because obviously the apprentice is going to be the mentee right in this, in our case.
Speaker 1:So you know this, you know at cbtu this is now working with all unions, or any in all unions.
Speaker 2:So all the affiliated unions, the affiliated building trades union so which so which are those building trades?
Speaker 2:oh man, I'm on the spot now. Well, I actually I actually have a little cheat sheet here. Good thing you asked me that. So we've got brick, later, brick layers, um, heat and frost, electricians, of course, ua, right, um, the operators, so the oes, the painters, iron workers, liuna, cement masons, sheet metal teamsters and ua, now, not a lot, not all of our unions. I I mean, yeah, did I miss any? I'm sorry if I missed any. Those are just what I have on my sheet here.
Speaker 2:There are some, like Boilermakers, are members of the CBTU but they're not members necessarily of the provincial chapters, right? So, like in our province, in my province, building Trades of Alberta. They're not members of the Building Trades of Alberta but they are members of CBTU, so the national, so they are part of our program, we do reach out to them. And then we've got like unions, like the Teamsters, that don't really have a red seal trade. And then we have, like you know, like some are complicated, where, like Liuna doesn't really have a first year apprentice. They're members of ours.
Speaker 2:So there's wins and there's losses throughout, and it's the federal government who decided which trades are going to be covered. And there is the trade of heavy I think it's called heavy equipment technician. Now, heavy duty mechanic is what we generally used to call it, or I I still do. That was missed and that that should have been included in this, because the the whole point of the program is to fill the skilled tricking shortage. Yeah, the gaps Right, and heavy equipment technician is huge. There's a major cry for people in that trade, right. So for that to be missed, you know, maybe if they do continue the program on after the end of March 2024, hopefully that we can bring that trade in, right?
Speaker 1:so I wonder if that was a miss, thinking that they're the same thing as a miller right, because I hear that often they get lumped into the same group and they are not the same job.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no. It's like calling millwrights and machinists the same no, don't do that.
Speaker 1:Don't do that. Millwrights and machinists the same?
Speaker 2:no, don't do that don't do that, no, and don't ever call a pipe fitter a plumber either.
Speaker 1:Right, there's some that just oof yeah, yeah, I mean we're all out there trying to make a buck, but it is true. Um, now you you said this is a temp gig, that you came into this after your last shutdown here. Now, why? Why did you look at this? I'm sure you could have gone back to the hall as a trainer or or some other support role at the hall. You know what were you looking for what, what?
Speaker 2:what got me was, um, several things. I'm helping apprentices get into the trade, and it's not just my trades at my UA hall, which I'm passionate about alone, but it's all the trades that are affiliated with the CBTU. It's all the building trades, right, and that, to me, is a passion for sure, because I speak as much as I can to anybody that will listen. That you know about. Why are you not considering a career in the trades? I don't care what trade it is. I always brag about welders, of course, the most, because we're the, we're the only ones that are both cool and hot at the same time. Hot and cool at the same time, right, but you know any of the trades. So I really like that and I really I don't know I really like that kind of team with the same goal, mentality, right. We're all looking out for doing the same thing and I'm telling you, apprenticeship across the country is so different, you know, sometimes I know and it's like somebody asks me a question about apprenticeship and I'm like you know what?
Speaker 2:can I refer you to my colleague because your apprenticeship is old? I mean even welders. Welders in ontario is very different than welders in alberta. You're not allowed really to weld in Alberta unless you're in an apprenticeship or you have a journeyman certification, journey person Right. So yeah, it's a, it's different. I, I, I. That was my passion, that's. It was the team thing, it was the national and it was helping helping bring more people into the trade.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I totally understand the national scope because you know that was I love teaching. So I love teaching at the college. Teaching students was one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done. But when I had the opportunity to start working on national programming, that was like, okay, you know what I want to feel like I can make a difference. And it's one thing to make a difference to a student, which I appreciate and I love, but it's another thing to kind of like open doors for a vast number of people to try to actually like you know, because I was one of those people that I used to like complain like the system. The system it sucks or this sucks. It's like no, put your money where your mouth is. You know like if you have an opportunity to fix this, then we'll get up there and do it.
Speaker 2:Then you know like Absolutely, I agree, I agree and, yeah, I've always said if you're going to complain about something, it's just a waste of your breath unless you're going to suggest a solution. So be a part of the solution. Right, Absolutely. But if we see issues, we do need to step up, especially us that have been in the industry a really long time and we've seen the issues repetitively. It's not just a one case or a one location issue which I can talk about. You know later on more about childcare when you work in the trades, childcare is a huge, huge issue and before I die I plan to like make some change somewhere along the line, which we are doing with the built together committee. But I was even starting the conversations with my own little business there, which I don't really do much with, my business, which you know.
Speaker 1:That might change, you never know Well let's talk about that now, because that is something that interests me. So I was a single dad. Thank God I had, you know, a brother. My family, so my sister and my parents moved to Vancouver when I was young. They left me behind, basically, and so when I had my kids I didn't have any family support, but I do have like a half-brother who lives in town, so I would work nights. So I basically had to work nights on purpose for years, so that we would just switch. I would drop the kids off, you know, in the evening He'd come to my place and then I'd come pick him up from his. It was this convoluted thing because there's no daycares in the evenings and they go to school during the day. So, like I mean, luckily I got divorced when the kids were in school age, but it was a big issue. So it's been high on my mind for a long time.
Speaker 1:And working for the association or, you know, running the association I get to basically look at what we can offer membership, as the unions do too. Basically, you know, I I'm, you know, trying to run this association. It's basically a free union for welders. So when I look at childcare, that's a big nut to tackle, because how do you do that, do you? You can't guarantee spots number one like that's. That's outside of my control. That is based on provincial governments, how many spots there is, the number of people you know. Is there credits, is there a tax rebate, is there what?
Speaker 2:what can be done, and I would love to hear your thoughts on how you approach that you know, through all my years of having to deal with it, um, because my son was 10 months old when we were out on our own um, and his father is out, yeah, yeah, that's really young. That's like daycare, that's daycare. And then, of course, all the years, right, um and his dad could help, would help out if I had to work weekends. We had a great relationship, I was all good there. So if I wanted to make up some of the time I missed and work a saturday, he was with his dad and it was all fantastic. But when you're a single parent, even when you, when you're not, so even when you're you're both two working parents, how do you juggle this child care stuff? Because a lot of our shifts and it's not just our industry, it's medical industry, it's a lot of industries where your shift starts at six in the morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're on the road at 4, 30, yeah, yeah yeah, and child care doesn't open that early.
Speaker 2:Or sometimes you have to work a 10-hour shift and I mean I don't want to leave my son or I don't think anybody should be leaving their kid in daycare for 13 hours a day. That's a really tough day. If it's the odd time, well it is what it is. To me it's a very simple fix and I think the government needs to step in, whether it's federal or provincial. Get them to start opening up earlier and getting them to start like staying open later, do a night shift and do weekends. It's really not that hard of a fix. But why would they do it if at first it's not well-received? They're going to lose money because they're paying people to be there early. Maybe the kids aren't there. The government should step in and put in incentive programs so that they can come early, they can hire people and they should pay them more because they don't get paid very much and pay them more, and I'm on board for that too.
Speaker 2:The night shift, um, you know, it could be like a big sleepover party. I don't know, I'm not a daycare person. All the power to them, because I could never do that. I have one kid and that's enough. I don't want 15 kids in my forget it. But weekends, why not? Why not make a weekend available? Right right, why not do a Saturday? Or like a camp.
Speaker 1:It's almost like a camp, like they go to the lake canoeing or something. I mean, there's costs there, there's money there, but let me tell you, most of the people that are in the trades, the money is not the problem, it's the organizing and the time and the place. It is One of the thoughts I had, and this is when I was working at a big company here in town. We went through a spurt where we hired a whole bunch of Somalians and people from Eastern Africa and they were all Muslim and they were either Islamic or Muslim faith. And one day one of the non-Muslim employees came up to me to complain and say you know, why do these people keep people keep, you know, disappearing three times a day for 15 minutes? And so I didn't know I got, I was ignorant. So the best way to cure ignorance is to ask so. So I went over and I asked one of the fellas and I said you know what's going on? I heard you guys are stepping away. You know every. You know two or three times a day.
Speaker 1:And he's like well, we got to pray, it's part of our religion. We got to pray, it's part of our religion, we have to pray and I'm like, well, where do you go? It's like, well, we have to. We have these mats that we roll out and we have to do it for X amount of time, x number of days. I'm like, well, where you've been doing it? It's like that recruited you, we brought hundreds of people from your part of the world, and so the onus is on me as your foreman now to accommodate.
Speaker 1:So we took an old break room that wasn't even being used it was used for storage and we made it a prayer room. Okay, so now this is your room, this is your prayer room, and instead of the second coffee break, which is 15 minutes we'll get, and instead of the second coffee break, which is 15 minutes, well, get rid of that second coffee break. You worked through it, but now you get three five-minute breaks throughout the day to go pray. Deal, everyone's happy. You know right, like. This is not rocket science. This is just me not making people be like, oh, you need to conform to our way. No, that's dumb.
Speaker 1:You know that's not right. So when I, you know that's that's not right. So when I, when I look at child care, I've thought about this. But this is obviously something that would only work for large companies on-site child care where the company itself opens up a child care facility, you know. So you got your kids technically at work with you. They're right there around the corner and most large welding shops are not in town, they're a little bit out of town. Usually, you know, it's not a bus place, usually most places you can't take a bus to. So I thought, like what if these companies, you know, I bet if the federal government could give some grants and say look, you build a, you know, 60 person child care facility on site for your employees, um, you know, we'll help with whatever monies or whatever it works comes maybe directly off your check. You don't even have to pay for it. You know, I've thought about this and I think that that would be an awesome thing to offer. But it only works for a certain size of company, you know you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'm going to play devil's advocate because we're built together. We did put a thing together and I'm going to gonna tell you about that. In a second build together kind of broke into a little subcommittee and we we threw around these ideas and that, of course, came up. But so, devil's advocate maybe I'm speaking from experience my son hates it when I talk about him but not every child, not every child, can go into just any any, uh, child care facility right, right, some need, they don't, all you know different, different, better education, uh uh, you know quieter, quieter places, or maybe more stimulating places, or you know, like you do have to find the right fit for your child so accommodations, you know
Speaker 2:yeah, that might work for, you know, a lot of children, but it might not work for all children, right, that's. And you don't want. If it's a dangerous site, like a plant site, you really don't want them that close. No explosions and gases. So we've built together this subcommittee that we put together and I think it's about a year and a half ago. We started the project. It's completed. We have a website, we have brochures, we have cards we hand out and we pitch industry, but we pitch mostly union, because we want to start making change for the signatory contractors to perhaps maybe agree to work it into the work agreement Right, where I mean OK, so it's called Supporting Working Parents. To perhaps maybe agree to work it into the work agreement, right, where I mean okay, so it's called Supporting Working Parents. So the website is supportingworkingparentscom, or is it ca? Sorry, I have a brochure right over there I can grab. I think it's actually ca. So we have options. We have a whole list of options that are there.
Speaker 2:You know, getting government to support the idea of opening the like, like I said earlier opening earlier, staying up later, night shift, uh, weekends. There's also working it into the contract agreement that maybe we could have different shifts. So what I, what I uh, I can't remember what I, what I named it, but um, oh goodness, too many thoughts going on in my head. I want to tell you everything all at once, and they're all trying to come out all at the same time. I'm too excited. So second shift, that's what I called second shift, where and this I actually did a few times at a few different locations where, if the shift actually starts at six, I have to come in at 730 because that's the earliest I can get there. So my shift is now 730 until whatever time they decide to close. If I can get an extra hour and a half that that I lost in the morning, all that's all great, but usually I didn't.
Speaker 2:So, now I'm an hour and a half less a day than everybody else, which affects my paycheck, which affects my life, which affects all of it. So a lot of times if I was working that Saturday, it wasn't really overtime for me yeah, it was just catch up making it up to catch up and make it a 40-hour work week, but I always came in, you know because but at least you had the accommodation, because, right we.
Speaker 1:We had that same thing in our last place, where one of the one of the you know younger guys had a, had a, couldn't drop off his kid till 7 30 and initially my boss above me was like, well, that's not gonna work I was like well, really, why not like yeah, well, the other guys are gonna complain, are they? Why would? They that's kind of like. It's kind of a like. You gotta be a real jerk to get out of bed and complain about that in the morning.
Speaker 2:Like oh, people used to get mad at me. People used to get mad at me and say it was special treatment and all kinds of stuff and I'm like I'm an hour and a half less a day per per day of pay. You're not paying me starting at six to be an hour and a half late. I don't get paid until 7 30 so, and I don't get to make up for that. So my Saturday that I'm missing half a day is actually straight time for me. So wait a minute before you start getting mad at me, right? Yeah, it's really funny, but things are changing.
Speaker 2:There's a shortage of skilled trades people. We don't want to lose people in the trade and when I was doing some research for some other projects that I did about childcare, we find that a lot of people leave the trades, whether they're journeyman or apprentice, when they have a family. That's when they leave the hours. Just, they can't do the hours that are required of them when they have small children, and that's a shame, because a lot of people are really passionate about working in the trades.
Speaker 1:And that's your prime working years too.
Speaker 2:And it's good pay it is, and it's benefits.
Speaker 1:I say that to all the people that are young and getting into trades. I said, look, I had children young, like my ex-wife was a teenager when we had our first kid and I have never paid a bill for my children in their life because the trades was the best benefits plans you're ever going to have. I've worked for government, provincial and federally. I've worked for private. I've worked for now CWB. I've worked for colleges and I have never had as good of benefits as when I was a weld private I've worked for now CWB.
Speaker 2:I've worked for colleges and I have never had as good of benefits as when I was a welder. Absolutely, and I know that and that's the shame, you know, when you see people leaving the trades and I talk to people about that too. Well, how am I going to manage with a little kid? Well, I don't have family nearby. You shouldn't have to rely on your family. You really should, and I did and you did and a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:Right, you know my mom helped me out a lot when I was still living in Medicine Hat and then, of course, I leaned on his father. His father had my son every weekend anyways, because he didn't even want to give my son back half the time. He just wanted to keep him. But he was, he was a great dad, but is a great dad. Yeah, you know, I got lucky that it actually worked out for me. But early on my I think, the first job I went and did when my son I first put him into child care, I didn't know my. My son had food allergies and stuff, so he started having these medical conditions because he's eating whatever they're serving. Then I started just bringing his lunch and I didn't know he had a dairy allergy. I had no idea right before that. Um, so I had to quit my job for that because they just were not. They were like your kid's sick. Don't bring them, and I understand that.
Speaker 1:But you know you already have enough to deal with when you have kids yeah you shouldn't have to have something as simple as child care stand in your way for keeping your career well, and it's such a double whammy, like you're at home, stressed out with your kid who's sick and you're missing out on a full pay day of pay which is not no big deal, right?
Speaker 1:So it all starts to stack up and you start falling into and I've seen it happen. People start to fall into that despair of hopelessness, you know, and it's really hard to get out of it. I see it in college all the time, because college is a tough time for single moms. Tough time because you're not making even any money. So you've got to take these months off of your life to go get some training for a career you don't even have yet. And I remember the daycare at the college didn't open up until 7 in the morning and one of the women was asking if she could come in early to practice but she didn't know what to do with her kids, so I would hang out with the kid in the hallway for an hour.
Speaker 1:I would go in at six and hang out with the. And then a couple of the other moms found out, and so then I had my own little you know unofficial daycare. I'd start bringing candy. You know we're going like okay, look, here's the deal. If I'm taking care of your kid, I'm loading them up with lollipops and and and and bear paws because I don't care. I'm not like you're not getting any healthy meals out of me so you're like.
Speaker 1:You're like the, the honorary grandpa yeah, loading up with sugar and sending them on their way right but it's just, you see, you just hate to see obstacles get in the way of people's dreams. And you know, when you said that there's those people that complain, they're complaining from a place of privilege. They're a person who didn't have to deal with what you dealt with, and so they're just talking out their a**. Oh, you get special treatment. You got the special treatment. Actually, like they got the special treatment but not ever having to deal with any of this. That's the special treatment. Actually Like they got the special treatment but not ever having to deal with any of this. That's the special treatment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and I had the female card thrown at me a few times, right? Well, you know what do you do in here. You don't belong here in the industry anyway, so you should be at home with your kid. Oh really, do you really want to start having that conversation with me? Because I know a lot of people that have both parents that are struggling, right. So don't tell me just because I'm a female and I shouldn't be here, right? That's an old conversation and and whoever pitched that my way usually left with their tail in between don't even start that with me.
Speaker 1:Well, that's an interesting concept because you know, I've had a lot of wonderful guests over the years and I've had a lot of young women lately who are starting their careers, just getting rolling, and I love hearing the excitement and and the you know, the the whole world is ahead of them in terms of their career. But you know, and I don't I think I'm older than you, but you know, like old farts, like us, you know we're older than you.
Speaker 2:Actually all right, well, I, I look older than you actually I look older than you.
Speaker 1:I have too much time in the sun. We've seen a lot of ugliness that I hope the trade has gotten better. For myself, being an immigrant, being from another country, has had some issues, but thankfully I speak really good English, which saves me from a lot of the abuse, because usually language is an easy tip off for the jerks out there. But for women I've seen terrible. I've seen the abuse at work and I've had to step in and be like no, like what you're doing is terrible. Oh, is she your girlfriend? No, this is just called being a decent human being. Now, from your perspective, like that's just me as an ally, from your perspective, you know, 25 years in the trades, has it gotten better? Is it better? Is it a little better? Is it worse? You know like I don't know well it really depends where you are.
Speaker 2:uh, every, every industry seems to be different. I see a big difference between industrial and commercial. I see differences between union and non. So I'm not I'm not going to target anybody at all, because I don't think that that's fair to do. I think it really boils down to the people and how they have maybe been raised or introduced to the trades, or you know, I find it's kind of going back now and I think it's probably because of the whole. You know how people face to face wouldn't say anything, but when they're hiding behind their computer screen they feel like they can say whatever they want. I feel like that's trickling onto job sites, yeah.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I really, because I'm not a violent person and a lot of people say, well, you know both smack and yeah, if you're face to face, I don't. I don't buy that kind of stuff. But I think people are less or less willing to say things face to face. But now, like I said, it's coming out more Because what are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Well, you know, I have a. I have a whole different array of ways to deal with it. I nip things in the bud right away. If you're going to say something, you know, even just a little thing, I'm going to turn around. I'm going to say you know what? That's not very cool to say. That's not really very funny. It's not cool.
Speaker 2:I'd appreciate it if I didn't hear that anywhere, any around me or any of the women on site right Now, that I'm the mom on site. Usually when I'm on the tools, right, I, you know, I look after everybody, not just the girls, but everybody, right? I check in and I say you know how are you doing? And if there's an issue, we have to follow procedure. If there's somebody that's bugging you, you let your foreman know, right, you say hey, you know what? I'm not tolerating this and, with me being union no-transcript, started carrying a radio down in medicine hat right, how come she's carrying a radio? Because it's the people that don't know me that don't know. I've been in the trade for you know, 26, 27 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah like you know what I know what I'm talking about, I have been on this years. Yeah, like you know what I know what I'm talking about, I have been on this. You may have never seen me on this job site, but I was, I don't know 29. The first time I set foot on that job site I'm not 29 anymore. I know my way around the plant site. I know where we can go and get tools and who to talk to. You know I actually funny thing A lot of people didn't know me when I stepped on that, that job site and there's an apprentice that used to call me the mayor of Medicine Hat, because everybody that would walk by would say hey, joe, I haven't seen you in a long time.
Speaker 3:How are you doing Right? It's like oh my. God so anyways.
Speaker 2:But back to the discrimination stuff. I like to think it's getting less, but it kind of rears its head every once in a while. We need to show people we're not going to tolerate that. Maybe we need stricter policies. You know, like you know, you lose it.
Speaker 1:You're off the site, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know something, something.
Speaker 1:That's what you know. That's where I go to is there's this concept now, especially with the job I have, now that I'm really trying to push out, and something I'm talking about a lot is work culture. It's something that we kind of gloss over a lot in terms of, like you know, work is just work. You just go to work to make a dollar. But I don't believe that because you spend more work time at work than you do with your spouse, you know you spend more time at work than you do with your own pets. So it's about it's an important part of your life and, like all parts of your life, your life is a series of tapestries that makes a culture the blanket of your life and if you don't have a culture of respect at work, it's really going to screw up the other aspects of your life. It's going to wreck other parts of your life, and I've had jobs where I would cry. I'd pull over on the way to work to cry. I hated the job so much but I couldn't quit. I needed that job to pay the bills and I felt trapped and I know what that feels like and and I have privilege. I'm a healthy man, I have a lot of privilege and I still had those feelings. So you know what's it like for the people that have even more obstacles. So for me it's really a thing that needs to happen at the top.
Speaker 1:If a boss like you said, what are the consequences? What's the chain of command? If you have, you go to your foreman and they say, oh, this is terrible, I'm going to the steward. Go to steward. The steward says this is terrible. They go to the gf, the gf goes man, give them another chance, it was all for nothing. It was all for nothing. There's gotta be a follow-through. And I tell you, I don't see a lot of companies and you know, and I and I hate to say this because it doesn't sound really positive but I don't see a lot of companies where it's good culture right from the top to the bottom. There's always seems to be one link, one link somewhere where someone's gonna just have to throw in a bad apple, you know, and say, oh, that's not a big deal, or who cares?
Speaker 1:well, it is you know?
Speaker 2:yeah you know, there's been companies that I worked for that I didn't want the job to end because it was such a pleasure to be there. Um, and most of my jobs are temporary because shutdowns only are for so long, or you know, like the project even I'm on right now is is, uh, a short term really, year and a half or whatever. It is total for me. I think, honestly, the only way we're going to get around that is to create policy and stick to it. I'm a big LinkedIn fan. That's you know kind of how I saw what you're doing came about, other than seeing you all over the place in all the conferences and stuff.
Speaker 2:But also, you know, I see a lot of things in there. I just saw one the other day and I think it was. I don't know if you. Oh, what is his name? Blue is the New White I am looking at it oh, Josh. Solon Josh. Yeah, so him and I did a podcast, we did the cross thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so did we A long time ago, me and him.
Speaker 2:He's so fantastic, he really, really is of his where it says in order to keep people, you need to create a structured culture and I can't remember the whole thing that he was saying and you need to stick to it. So I honestly and that's the only way you're going to create a culture that people want to work for you and they will stay working for you, but you have to stick with it. So I honestly think for companies, they have to create that policy and still follow through and be strict about it, Like I'm sorry, but I gave you a warning and that was unacceptable. You know, I gave you a day off, whatever your rule is done, done. I'm sorry and I stick up for people. I always did.
Speaker 2:But now that I'm, you know, the mom or whatever on site, one of the more senior people on sites, I will, if I see a wrong, I'll walk right over there and I'll say you can't talk to that person that way. They are, you know, whether it's a language barrier, whatever, just because they don't understand you doesn't mean you get to yell at them, Lower your voice, calm down, or you and I are going to go for a walk, Like I. You know, that's just the way I am and I don't have to be screaming and yelling. And you, I mean you calmly deal with situation and de-escalate things and it usually it usually, you know, works things out right. There's a lot of different ways to deal with things calm and patience and people is the way to go right.
Speaker 1:Those jerks at work are not popular. It's not like they have a bunch of people rooting for them, like I mean. Everyone else at work is like finally, somebody said something to the guy you know, know, like you know and when they're let go it's almost like a hallelujah right.
Speaker 2:People are like oh, so they're finally off site for good. And another thing I saw on LinkedIn just the other day is is you know, you know your company culture when, if you feel sick thinking about work on Monday morning on Sunday night, that is a good indication whether you have a good, healthy work culture or not. And I mean, we've all been in those positions where it's like you know what, not looking forward to going to work on Monday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's true. It is.
Speaker 1:It's a tough spot to be in, especially when you feel like you have no choice, which is a psychological thing because, trust me in the trades people that are listening to this podcast, you always got a choice. You always got to you always have. There's always a move for you and you're not going to go backwards. It doesn't happen. If you don't like your job, start looking for another one, Just bounce, Don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:You'll be okay. Well, yes, absolutely 110%. There's a lot of work out there and tons and tons and tons. There's a shortage of trades people right now, so you can go anywhere and if you're red seal or your apprentice, you can hop to another province, even explore the country, you know that's another benefit about being in the trades. But I really like the show of the support for mental health these days as well yeah not only do we have benefits, but people can take a mental health day.
Speaker 2:If you work for a good company, just say. You know what I'm stressed out about. Whatever family, whatever financial, whatever- or even work, yeah, even work. You know what I'm struggling. Whatever I need a day, a mental health day, okay, you know, take care, call me if you need me. You know I found way more kind and caring foreman supervisors in the last like eight years than I had. You know, the whole time I've been here and I've worked for a lot of really good companies.
Speaker 1:And to throw in my shameless plug because you got a couple so I'm going to throw in one here is that the CWP Association. We offer free DEI courses once a month. Now you know as a member, so you can go. We offer a two hour class for free and we have stuff like allyship, microaggressions, how to handle aggression at work. We have stuff like even just upskilling, like help with math and word processing and excel. You know these things like. You know what, if you're, if you're program it once a month. We offer these classes. Tell your boss you're taking a couple hours off in the afternoon to sit in front of the computer. You're learning something. It's relaxing, it's happy and it's free and it's good for you, for your professional development, because if you're learning, you feel better about yourself, right yeah, yeah, absolutely, and and to have that constant.
Speaker 2:That's really good to uh, to to always be having those courses coming up and and all supportive of what you're doing and within industry and all around. It's good for your own mental health to be taking those courses. Yeah, because then you take, and you do take that outside, like you mentioned earlier. If you're having, if you, if you don't enjoy, and you do take that outside, like you mentioned earlier, if you're having, if you, if you don't enjoy your work, you do take that elsewhere.
Speaker 2:And when I do talk to groups you know about pitching the trades and joining the trades and and considering a career in the trades I say that if you have a happy job and you love what you do, your whole life is going to improve your whole life. You're going to be happy when you leave the job site. You're going to be happy in the morning on your way to the job. You're going to be a better parent. You're going to be a better partner, sister, brother, you know all of it. You're going to be just a generally better person all around. So, find a trade. I always say, find a trade that you're passionate about. Right.
Speaker 2:Like welding Like welding. It's the best trade that there is. I'm just saying, but you know if you all pick something else. That's okay, I guess too. Yes, no, I love welding, I've always been. Anyway, all right, all right, so we're getting.
Speaker 1:We're getting close to the end of the interview daniela always tries to keep me on track in under an hour we blew past an hour a while ago, but but I did want to talk to you about a couple of the other things you got going on. So you know we did talk about your, your podcast, a little bit. So you know you trailblazers, right, um, or, yes, trailblazers, and is that still going? Is that something ongoing for you? Is, how does it work? Who gets on there? Tell us about it well, okay.
Speaker 2:So the reason I created trailblazers inc. Um was to share the stories of trailblazing tradeswomen in order to inspire others to join the trades. So, again, all trades, not just the best welders, but all of the trades right. So that's where it started. Covid hit. I had different plans, but COVID hit, so I had to keep it to the podcast and that ended up being, you know, a year and a half of doing that, and then, of course, I'm working all over the place doing things, changing. You know of doing that. And then, of course, I'm working all over the place doing things changing. You know, single mom life. It just gets crazy, right, working full time plus doing podcasts. So I did. I think I have about 24 podcasts right now, yeah, and they're, they're, you know, not all of just women. Like I said, I did one with Josh Zolan, I did one for International Women's Day, I did one to support the LGBTQ2, plus community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, community, community, yes, thank you, I've done. I did one to honor my father when he passed away. You know, I've done. I've done some different ones, right? So let's just say there's 20 women there and I think it's really important to do video podcasts especially for that, because they can see the woman they can relate to, maybe what she looks like, or her story, or her background or her age, even, right, I've got older women, I've got younger women, I've got some apprentices. Most of them are experienced journey women, journey persons, journey men, whatever you want to call it. I think that's really important to get the stories out there, because a lot of women don't think that they can do this right, but they can.
Speaker 2:And I've got other plans for Trailblazers, right? So when this job wraps up, or maybe before this job wraps up, I'm working on some stuff, right. Maybe it's time for Trailblazers to expand a little bit. I had a whole lot of ideas in my head when I started it. They're all written down in a book. Anytime I have a new idea, it goes in that book. It's time to review the book and shake it up a little.
Speaker 1:There's that entrepreneurial spirit of your grandfather in you there.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I've had two other businesses as well, but Trailblazers. If I can do a little plug, my podcasts are on YouTube, so Trailblazers Inc on YouTube. I'm also on Spotify. Oh goodness, my head is just trying to tell you too many things at once. There's another one that I can't remember, but yes, they're out there. I have a website Trailblazersincca.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I mean a quick Google and I'm sure people can find it. We'll also likely share all this information on the podcast right up when we put it up online. So now to finish off the the last couple questions before we wrap up what's coming up? You know you got a year and a bit left of this program that you're working on now. What's coming up for you outside of that? Is there conferences? Is there anything you're promoting, anything we should know about? Anything with the ua?
Speaker 2:that's cool uh, we've got some conferences coming up, nothing that you know the the public can be invited to. Building trades of alberta conference is coming, ua conference, cbtu has an annual conference, obviously, right, anybody uh involved with cbtu is aware of that. We just had ours, was it may? It wasn't that long ago, um, may or june, um.
Speaker 2:But for me personally, I don't really know what's. You know I'm, I. Nobody really knows what my next steps are. I've got a lot to choose from for me personally. I don't really know what's. You know I'm, I. Nobody really knows what my next steps are. I've got a lot to choose from for me personally. When this project is over, I might go back into being an instructor. I've been an instructor off and on, you know, since I don't know 2005,. I did it. Just depends on what's going on, right, I really do enjoy that. For the same reasons you said before, I have my level two weld inspection and I've never really done it, so that is really interesting to me. My grandpa was a welding inspector, so I kind of you know, there's that kind of draw. Um, I don't know, I don't know starting the business. Yeah, I've got other a few things that I don't want to mention until they come out, but I'll let you know, well, I'm sure I'm way too busy.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I'll run into you somewhere and we'll talk about it. I'll get. I'll get the spice, I'll get the spicy meatballs on you.
Speaker 2:Somehow I'll get, I'll figure it out, yeah I'll walk around with 10 different business cards from one. I'm all. It'll be like I'm playing poker here. These are all my five cards for what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Take one or just one big business card with all the yeah, yeah okay, so let's see, how are we gonna wrap this up?
Speaker 1:let's let's talk a little bit about in terms of you know, um, what you see. I would like for you to kind of give me the the rundown, for how does somebody get involved? You know, you're such a proponent of getting in in the trades. What are the first steps someone should take and I'm talking generic someone. I don't care if you're 18, just out of high school, or you're 35 and you've been working in the bank for the last 15 years and you want to try something new. What are the first steps someone could take?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, you know it depends on where you're starting out. There's so many courses that are introduction to trades courses, you know, at SAIT, at all kinds of different places, like I'm speaking Calgary zone, even you know, medicine Hat has introduction to trade stuff where I'm from, where I grew up. Look for that. Or maybe even just pick a trade that you think you'll be interested in, like if it's carpent carpentry, you know, maybe go and hit up some contractors and see if they'll take you on, just so you can try it for a few months. Right, that would be a really good place to start. Um, because there's a shortage of skilled trades people, there's a really good chance that that would even work, right? Um, but be prepared, you're gonna have to pay for, you know, your steel toe boots and your basics, right, usually companies supply your safety stuff usually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you can try it in high school, by all means, that's probably the best place, and I think they're very supportive and they're pushing it a little bit more now. I know my son's school, where we live now, had carpentry and welding and auto body and like all of it it was. It was insane, it was wonderful, absolutely wonderful, even if you have a friend right, if you have a friend or a neighbor that is doing something that you're interested in. Strangely enough, my next door neighbor is always welding in the garage and it's like, hey, man, I'm in the office today, I don't need to hear your grinder all day long.
Speaker 2:But if you do have a neighbor that is in mechanics or you know carpentpentry, or doing something in the garage, you know, invite yourself over, introduce themselves and maybe just watch for a while and see if it is something that you like. There's so many ways to get in. I mean, and obviously I'm going to pitch the union as well call a union. You know, if you think you like welding, there's like boilermakers, ironworkers and ua. If you're into carpentry, there's all different kinds of carpentry you can do.
Speaker 2:You can do finish carpentry, you can build houses, you could be a scaffolder, even that, which is, you know, kind of involved in in that, um, yeah, I mean, it depends on what you want to do, um, and sometimes you get into one trade and you don't like it. You know like, um, there there's like segways, right. You know, like plumbing and pipe fitting are good partners, because the first three years is all the same training is what they're telling me in the apprenticeship, right. It's like the piping basics, right, um, and not to say, my dad didn't love welding. He totally loved welding, but he also got two tickets. He was a pipe fitter, steam fitter as well, so you can get dual tickets, right. And and then about. You know when you're not doing one, you can do the other right. There's a lot of industries that kind of work well together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of pipe fitters that are Red Seal welders separately, and then there are Red Seal pipe fitters, and same with iron workers, and I have dual ticketed as well. I made the jump from welding to steel fab and it's very useful and like I mean. The other thing I would like to just add to your list is social media. You know you brought up LinkedIn. You know, get out there, get on social medias, any of them, whether it's LinkedIn, which is the kind of more professional level which you know, or even just the Instagrams, and and check it out. There's so much you could see out there. Youtube, listen to podcasts, right, like, do do a little bit. And if you're listening to someone's stories and it's exciting to you or interesting, then odds are you're probably gonna dig it.
Speaker 2:you know what I mean well, and youtube is huge, because when I was teaching during our lunch break, if we were teaching, if we were staying in for lunch, I put like underwater welding on on youtube and things that I'm not going to be able to teach them. You know, let's, let's check out. You know welding in space, which is pretty trippy. If you haven't checked it out, it welds on its own. Wow, I didn't know that happened.
Speaker 2:But yeah, there's so many different places that you can learn, but the last place I saw you is another thing that people can check out in. Each province has a skills like skills alberta event. If you're anywhere near a skills alberta event, which happens once a year, check it out, because there's a lot of tri trades, right? You?
Speaker 2:can try, you know carpentry, try welding, which is usually you know, not actual welding, it's usually you know uh virtual welding simulator, yeah, um, but you get to watch and see the competitors competing, which is pretty inspiring because they are focused, that they're driven and they're doing the best, and and then you can smell it. That's what I like about being yeah, you can see.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can smell you cutting the wood. I can smell you know the, you know auto body stuff and I can smell the grease and the see. That's what gets me revved up about the trades, right, is the smelling and the experiencing of it all. Feeling the heat from the welders right, but I mean, you and I last saw each other at skills canada, which moves around every year. Right, that's the national competition. For those who don't know um, and yeah, if you can find that as well, that's even better.
Speaker 1:Yet it's like the Olympics of trades. It's very exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and some people have open houses right. Like you know, it depends. You have to really explore you have to explore your region. There's a lot of options. Yeah, it's definitely. It's best thing I ever did was joining the trades. I definitely am the right fit for this, because I really don't like wearing makeup. I really prefer not to do my hair and just put a hat on and go to work, but things have changed. This is easier on my body, to be honest, as well. But yeah, yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:it's such a great, a great thing to do, no matter what trade, of course, welding yeah we're going to boast, gonna boast about, but yeah, any of the trades, honestly is is the best way, best thing to do and the schooling is minimal. That was my advantage.
Speaker 1:Two months a year and usually paid for three four years. Yes, yes usually even even non-union. Right now, most courses there's tons of bursaries and scholarships and money for it, like you'd be amazed yeah, and you can be on ei while you're in school, right?
Speaker 2:you're on ei, um, and sometimes your company, uh, and some unions will top you up well, and they'll pay for your tuition, like some companies, because they support what you do and they want you to come back when you're done school. They'll pay your tuition, which I don't even know. I don't even think. I think it was free when I was in school 150 years ago. I don't know about you.
Speaker 1:I don't remember paying any tuition at all I, I don't remember to tell you the truth I don't remember paying tuition.
Speaker 2:I remember being on ei and paying for books yeah, yeah, right, all right, jill.
Speaker 1:Last question we're gonna do the time. We're gonna do the time machine. All right. If you could get in a time machine right now, knowing everything you know, and pop up in front of 18-year-old Jill just coming out of high school, doesn't like school, hated being there, so happy she got the out of there. What advice would you give yourself, knowing what you know now?
Speaker 2:I'd say get into welding immediately, immediately. That is one of my only regrets. When people ask you know, go through a list of questions and say what is your only regret? Uh, is not starting earlier. I would say get your butt in there. Forget about partying and boys and whatever's on your mind. Get your butt to a welding shop because you're gonna love it. You're gonna be so proud of yourself, right? You know that that's a big thing for me. Yeah, that's what I would say to myself. Yep, and buy a house early, right I waited forever too yeah, you know, buy a house early.
Speaker 2:You you know people don't realize and I don't boast about the. I don't want people to come into the trades for the wage, but it is a big part. You're going to be making good money early. You won't struggle financially as much that I'd be yelling that to jill right in her face.
Speaker 1:You won't be financially strapped as long as you are, well, one of the things that the world health organization has said is one of the biggest issues for women in the world is financial stability, less pension, less work time, less hours in, less wages, wage disparity and I can't stress enough how you know the trades. Um, there really isn't, and maybe this is something that good since forever. But a welder is a welder, the pay is the pay and it's never been whether it's a female or male, or black or white, or brown or yellow or purple, the wage is a wage. It's been about getting hired or not yes, that's been the issue, but it's um, but the wage is the wage. So if you, if you're a woman or a person of color, you just get in there and you will be paid the same as the other people around you. I mean, I haven't heard of any company getting away with paying women less in welding ever yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm gonna say the union again, because it goes by the book. Um, yes, yes, yeah, you know, you're right, welding is a good, good wage. I've actually seen some charts, I think, on linkedin again maybe I'm a linkedin addict, I don't know but where where they say, like a welding, like journeyman rate right now is 35 bucks or 32 bucks. It's way higher than that. Right now, b pressure welders in alberta are getting, you know, average 50 bucks an hour, average, right, some more, some less the east, uh, the east of canada.
Speaker 1:So from manitoba east, the wages are considerably lower. That's what I always tell people. Yeah, so the west, we get paid way more and we're used to it. So you know I was making almost 40 an hour 20 years ago, you know. So it's like we're like oh, in Ontario, that's like I mean I think in Regina the lowest wage for year one I saw posted like just out of level one, I think it's 24, 25 bucks an hour, that's like, and I think the unions are higher. I believe it's low 30s for level one. So it's like not too far apart, but it's pretty high. And then I have friends from ontario that's saying, you know?
Speaker 1:there's red seals out there and I'm not gonna throw a number out there, but less so they.
Speaker 2:They throw the stats off so if you come out west, come out west. West is where we western wilders from alberta, yeah, especially, or saskatchewan. Come on, come on, throw a little love to Saskatchewan here. Yes, you guys are cool too, all good.
Speaker 1:All right, Jill. Well, thank you very much for being on the podcast. This has been a ton of fun. This has been a great conversation.
Speaker 2:A great conversation. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for having me. I appreciate the time and allowing me to share my story.
Speaker 1:Cool Any shout. Cool any shout outs or anything you'd like to say last words.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I think I've had enough words. All right, I guess I've been shouting enough all right people well, everyone that's been watching.
Speaker 1:thank you very much for staying with us for this hour and a half that we did. It's been a really fun. Check out trailblazersincca. And also make sure that you check out the jill on linkedin because she's probably going to be online at any time of the day so you can find her on there. I'll be there and, if you've been following and downloading the podcast, thank you so much for following. We are getting prepped for a whole bunch of fun projects coming up. We just released our Skills Canada project where we did 15 interviews over two months with all sorts of skills competitors from across Canada. Those are out now being released, and we got lots coming up. So keep downloading, sharing and commenting on our podcast. We love the interactions and we'll be seeing you, so stay tuned.
Speaker 3:We hope you enjoy the show you've been listening to the cwb association welding podcast with max. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwb associationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced by the CWB Group and presented by Max Holm, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.