The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 189 with Randi Jacob and Max Ceron
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects welding professionals around the world and unrepresented communities as we continue to strive for a more diverse workforce. Join us in a special episode for National Day of Truth and Reconciliation on September 30th to encourage all Canadians to learn about the rich and diverse cultures, voices, experiences, and stories of First Nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples in Canada.
Join us for a powerful conversation with Randi Jacob, a 2Spirited Mik’gmaq, First Nations individual from Ontario. Randi shares her deep insights gathered from her extensive work with the Ontario Federation of Indigenous Friendship Centers, delving into the vital role of education and policy changes in addressing the challenges faced by Indigenous communities. She sheds light on the importance of recognizing and separating Indigenous history from colonial narratives, offering a refreshing perspective on representation and cultural identity. This episode is a heartfelt tribute to resilience, community, and the ongoing journey toward reconciliation.
Follow Randi on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/randi-jacob-6595a1149/
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
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Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to another edition of the cWB Association podcast. My name is Max Duran and, as always, I'm out there hunting the best stories and the most interesting minds I can find in this beautiful world of ours. Well, today we have a special edition show honoring truth and reconciliation, which is Monday, the September 30th. Here in Canada, this year and every year, we try to do something that does some type of honoring or remembrance or education regarding either truth, reconciliation or any other Indigenous activities happening in this country. Today I have Randy Jacob coming to us here from Ontario. She's in Mississauga and, randy, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Good, good. How are you, Max?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. I got a sunny day. I just came in from outside. I gave myself about a 20 minute grounding this afternoon. I was feeling some stress, so I went outside, took my shoes off and stood in the grass for a bit. You know you got to do that every now and then and remind yourself where you are. So I feel better now. I got some energy, some energy plus. I had another coffee also helps. So how are you? How's your day?
Speaker 2:there's been some forest bathing all day. I feel like from the weekend. Uh, I was actually able to attend a sweat this weekend, uh, up in midwifery in ontario here close to barry, so I feel very grounded as well I just drove through the barry area last month.
Speaker 1:I'd never been up to barry north base, the uh, where else did we stop? Uh, the sioux sudbury yeah, we went through that whole area.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful up there, it really is yeah, I mean for the last like six and a half years I worked for the federation, which is the ontario federation of indigenous friendship centers and all those places you just mentioned. There's a friendship center in each one. I've been serving the last 31 friendship centers the last six years.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, wow, so you're a busy person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it hit close to home Good.
Speaker 1:Let's start at the beginning here, randy. Let's talk about who you are, where you came from, what are your roots. Give us a little snapshot of know and kind of why you're on the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm Randy JJ, I'm Mi'kmaq, first Nation Two Spirit, I don't know. I guess, to be honest, max, I don't even want to be talking about a lot of my experiences. I really don't. But they're very real experiences. Right. They could so very easily be avoided through, you know, like education and policies and so forth. So I mean, what choice does like an Indigenous person have? Right. Like to show up and take on representation?
Speaker 1:Well and right off the top you bring up a very interesting point is that when you're a person of color, indigenous, the first examples of your culture or your heritage being, you know, forced to the front of your mind are usually negative of your mind are usually negative. They're usually some form of negative interaction in society where, for some reason, you've had your culture, your heritage, your look, your whatever be forced into a space that isn't typically forced for others. You know what I mean. And and it becomes a confrontation which I think few people understand how much of a lasting effect that has on your internal dialogue after the fact, right, yeah, yeah, I mean I'm not angry or like out to get it.
Speaker 2:And there's no benefit. Something I have to say to my daughter often my daughter is only six is no one gets in trouble for telling the truth Whenever. I just want to hear about daily things, but I tried to like repeat it in that way and but when we're talking about normally it's a negative thing about indigenous stuff. I always say, like residential school isn't our history, that's, that's the churches, that's our colonial history we have something and we want to share those stories.
Speaker 2:But it's hard when you're being covered with all the boggled down, with the negative.
Speaker 1:That's right, and it's layers and layers that exist. I know that, like I live in Saskatchewan and Saskatchewan has kind of a jaded history in terms of Indigenous rights and as much as Canada. But you know, we're kind of the home of the Métis between us and Winnipeg and Louis Riel, my wife's Métis, there's Batoche out here. There's all this. You know history that predates colonialism and people are like, oh well, you know, let's go to this thing because the you know the colonialism that happened here. Put it on the map. It's like whoa, whoa, whoa. There's like 10 000 years prior to that that existed of art, music, stories, culture, food.
Speaker 1:You know all the things that make up a culture. When people like what's a culture, you know you got music, you got language, you got food, you got know traditions that's right. And those values, those all were there. It wasn't the, the us, it wasn't the change that made them apparent, right.
Speaker 2:Oh, and you know, even though I say I'm not angry, I also feel like when people are learning more and more as being exposed cause we just have access even just being on podcasts, or there's so much beauty that came out of COVID, that's continued, of the access of information. So like, in some ways, I'm like every single person should be outraged, like maybe common forms of racism will be acknowledged and we could see solutions that, like those previous generations just didn't didn't think about.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and it could have been something as simple as, like you said, well, number one, education. Education is always the first thing, um, one of the things I want to bring up to you in in that education sphere is the, the bystander syndrome, and I feel like in my life here in in canada for, you know, almost 40 years now, I was born in south america I've noticed not so much less racism, which is a sad thing to say. I would say that maybe even in the last few years I've seen it get worse in some ways, but I have seen a lot more bystander or ally support, you know, and I feel like that's important. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:uh, I mean, I think it's a, it's a mixed bag. Um, yeah, there's education and we're saying that things have changed to a degree, but, like, within the last two years, something we were working on was removing birth alerts, and I mean, in ontario, we were the well actually, um, quebec was the last ones to continue it, but I, that was something that was normal, that was just part of their everyday life. I don't think the average person that was working in policy believed I'm being a racist.
Speaker 2:I'm filling in my paperwork right I'm trying to do certain work in a certain way for certain people, and when I say birth alerts, that means, like you know, the new policy solution Canadians came up with was to no longer tell on it. Tell on an indigenous person when we're pregnant. But when I had my baby back in 2018, cause she's now six I mean that was just normal. If an indigenous woman's pregnant, you notify CAS. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you wonder why there's 40 000 indigenous children in cas yeah, and it's the number one population of foster children in the country right it's only 10 when it's less than 10 of the population overall. Right like yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, if we remove that one piece of that piece of a small policy, maybe that will change things, because then you just have a fair shot up against other canadians that are, you know, I think it's generational as well.
Speaker 1:Like, let's say, in your example, you know, we we got rid of birth alerts, which I still know. Birth alerts are happening under the table without officialness, like that's still happening and places still get in trouble for it. But let's say it's off policy. Now how long do you think it becomes out of the culture? Because that's the thing with colonialism is that the system is rigged right right right from the start. So even when you change certain aspects of policy, which are commendable, great um, but you still have it being reinforced in so many other avenues, right yeah. So how do you like?
Speaker 2:will that take just time, or I think it's a lot of unlearning that's currently happening. I mean, I would like to say it's happening within our lifetime. I see what is going on in like my children's children's kindergarten classrooms, and like the orange shirt day wave of happening, um, but at the same time, if you want to ask not even us, if you have a teenager in your household if they come up with a mascot. It would be very easily one of my people right like. It's not a very positive view, so I yeah yeah are like three steps forward, two steps back.
Speaker 2:Um, I like, when I say I have negative experiences, that if those never happened I wouldn't be able to hear right now to talk to you about them. But like, here I am, so I must have did something right.
Speaker 1:Um spending this tuesday afternoon with you yeah, well, you know, the thing is, is that good is good, and that's that's. Perhaps what's the biggest thing is that you know the, the intelligence, the eq, the iq, the cultural abilities. That has nothing to do with race, like, I mean, that's not even a racial thing, that's just people, that's just people. But when you have just systematic blankets let's call them weighing you down, it's a lot harder to for that diamond to shine, right, but they will still shine. You know, this is something that I've had in my life where I've had, you know, um, people come up to me and be like, why are you so adamant about, you know, racial equality, when you seem to have done so well in your life?
Speaker 1:It's like, well, that's not really the argument the argument is that perhaps I had to work 10 times harder to get to the same spot. I came from a place further behind, perhaps in terms of poverty, housing, you know, family support and sure, yeah, maybe I'm sitting at the table with you today, but we're not factoring in all the other pieces in the background that had to happen for that to be a reality, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I mean when I was in high school and I mean I felt like I was in always advanced levels or the intermediate levels, but within that system, you're still playing into the system and that's what you're digging at. Where, within my own textbook that obviously the education system approved. Within that textbook it says Mi'kmaq, people have gone extinct. Right and I'm sitting.
Speaker 2:Right, like you're sitting in the classroom. Yeah, yeah, that's odd, that is when people tried to deny genocide right and I'm like, but this, like you're banning information from people who want it well and you know.
Speaker 1:Even the topic of genocide, like officially it's been listed, like it's been said by the government, now, like it's theoretically, we've gotten the past, the point of whether it is or isn't right, we, it's been announced that it was a genocide and I don't know how you could argue otherwise. But now I've heard people discussing in circles about whether we can still consider certain things that we do. Apartheid, because that is another whole, very sensitive topic. Right, because we have a. We have a way of looking at apartheid as a black-white relationship, like, oh, the South Africans, they participated in genocide, the whites on the black or on the apartheid. But when I look at the reservation and treaty system of Canada, that sounds pretty textbook like apartheid to me.
Speaker 2:Like pretty textbook. It's very much so based off of canada right and when we say, learn about other, um, poor leaders, uh, art is not highlighted because I mean the people. The victims were part of this group. When we say black, indigenous people of color, um, so my daughter, we're learning about numbers right now and it's a $5 bill. I'm like Sir Winston Churchill oh, he was one that actually, you know, allowed residential school to happen. And her face is looking at me like why is it on my money?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're just talking about this $10 bill, about this Viola human rights. Like you know, the wheels are turning. Yeah, yeah. Very much so.
Speaker 1:And it seems so obvious to this innocent child. Now, for yourself, did you grow up in on reservation?
Speaker 2:or in city? No, so I grew up in cambridge, which is about a half hour from six nations. Yeah, um, I mean, I feel like when I was a kid, I really appreciate it when speakers like this would come into the our school and I kind of just it hit home more than a teacher talking you about history you validated it yeah, validated it. You had covenant house come in, you had kind of speakers talking about terry fox and I just loving people would talk to us and we'd really understand it.
Speaker 2:So I feel like now I'm trying to do that back in some way right um, like we have remembrance day for like those have fallen, and now orange shirt day is for those who've never made it home, and so my grandpa, he, was one of those that didn't make it home. And that's how, or what, or how. I'm indigenous, speaking to you today, urban indigenous, if you're not initially born on the reserve, or now you might be four generations in and you might might not speak your tongue, or you might not have a tie to a reserve. But stats don't lie like stats, canada it's 80 of indigenous people live off reserve.
Speaker 1:They are your neighbors they are absolutely and there's so, so much generationally whitewashed Indigenous people now that you know they're non-status but they are, they're full blood but they basically two, three generations ago, through the process of residential schools and separation and foster children, have been completely removed from their cultural background to the point where they don't even know or acknowledge the it wasn't right.
Speaker 2:If I'm reaching, I was gonna help. You don't know. Like what is this gonna be besides? I mean, growing up we were told, um, you know, the natives could go out when, oh canada, the national anthem would play. They would say all the kids could go on the hallway and not stand up. And I, I, you know, at an, as a, as an adolescent, you don't want any attention to you back then and you're just like why are they doing this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and really I can ask that today what would be the point of that?
Speaker 2:Never did a staff or teacher ever sit and tell the rest of the class why that was happening. Now back, I could actually recognize the sensitivity around it yeah that you're not collaborating.
Speaker 1:Your colonizer and now it's as a young person for you in school in cambridge you know, did you identify as indigenous as a kid, like your parents? Were they? You know, were you involved in any cultural stuff like the dancing or the food or the trips or anything like that?
Speaker 2:Not to a degree. Yes, I mean, I would always go on the reserve because my nanny needed her smokes. Yeah, yeah. That was very real, but at the same time, my mom really demonized my dad's side being a mixed group too, mm-hmm, um demonized, my dad's side being a mix too. So um I the idea of reclaiming my history or, like um finding my roots with my grandpa, who ended up passing away on the reserve?
Speaker 2:um allowed me to, like kind of just be a vessel for my daughter, who is like a hoop dancer and has been at powwow since she was like three years old um you know born with a cedar bath and like just understanding and educating myself to continue that yeah, you almost have to relearn in order to teach yeah, exactly, and that that's like what we're coming for, that that culture, piece of like. There's more to a powwow than what we say dancing and food and drumming but really it's what was taken from you, what was raw from you, what was the opportunity that never had the sense of community.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, that safe space, that, um, it's really hard to explain, but it's almost like you can breathe easy. It's uh, it's like a weight lifted when you're surrounded by cultural equivalents. You know, like the people, that, uh, you may not have anything in relation to, but you have everything in common with, which is kind of a different way to look at it, right absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then I think, like I moved away for school and that was still a teenager, you know, I was 18, moving out and there was no family or friends. You're moving away, uh, for like university, and then the friendship centers were close by and aunties and uncles just like weren't like. It was like a warm hug, yeah, food and drumming, and come out thursday nights and just very drop-in, casual and just being allowed.
Speaker 1:Hoping someone made bannock for the morning. Yeah, yum right yeah, yeah, when I was teaching at the college, we set up uh really, we had always like a friendship center in the school, but it was kind of lame and it was like, okay, well, let's do this better. Like bring in an elder, let's do this right, like let's have coffee and, you know, let's do smudges in the morning, let's let's get some routine going on here, like I mean, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's like my auntie from Chile who's a medicine woman back home in Millipia. She still sends me smudging sticks that she makes herself to Canada Cause she's like you got to use ours, Cause they don't have the right stuff in Canada. It's like okay, okay, I'll do it.
Speaker 2:I mean it's obviously a little bit ironic, because I think there's a lot going on in Canada the last two weeks and it's been in the news a lot about we are approaching September 30th. Things should be better, but there's been seven people that have been killed by the police.
Speaker 1:The police. Yeah Well, here in Saskatchewan we have an abysmal track record. You know, I'm not proud to say that this may be, or is, high on the racism scale of the country. I travel the country extensively for work and I mean here the things that happen in Saskatchewan are sometimes jaw dropping and it's like we're not advancing. Like are we like what are we? What are we not teaching in school? Like what are we? What are we not teaching in school? And I, like my kids, went through the school system here and they taught way. They learned way more about indigenous cultures and first nations than I ever did in school. So so that that part seems to be there and I keep getting stuck on.
Speaker 2:it's got to be the older generations, just like that are holding on to like either their misinformation, their miseducation or honestly just holding on to their ego and being like this is mine and mine is mine and that's that they don't like that story because oftentimes, if you think, you know, it's always loud, it's in everybody's face and you know, I feel like when they see indigenous things happening on the news or on tv and hearing even right now, they might think that but it's not helping. Where's that next step right?
Speaker 1:yeah, where's the action item? Like they say in board meetings, okay that's a nice meeting. Now, what are we actually doing, right?
Speaker 2:like there's been 10 years, 94 calls and only 13 that were answered yeah so I mean, those were very similar to when we say treaties.
Speaker 1:You know, canadian and jesus people put together an action plan and they came up with 94 and that was that yeah, that's that now, do you like on a federal level, do you think that the sitting government I'm not, you know, I'm talking about current government, I'm just saying any sitting government, because they shift back and forth and in my time in canada I have not seen anyone real be a real excellent leader in this um.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like there is corrections that could be done at the federal level that could be followed through, or do you feel like it's just it's always going to be kind of second tier importance next to the all the other things you know? Canada's still young it is, it's a young country I didn't.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't understand when we have our status cards or when I used to cross the border without a passport. Yeah, like the idea of 157 years ago. Things were different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is only three generations. That's only great grandpa.
Speaker 2:Every single indigenous person is tied to a residential school. Yep. I don't think we're trying to come after Canadians for any type of residential school, so if we could maybe work on these calls to action. Yeah. When we're talking about Canada. Undrip came up, you know, united Nations Declaration of Indigenous Peoples' Rights. All countries voted, four countries said no and Canada was one of them. Yeah. I'm not surprised by that, but don't think most canadians. If they're wearing an orange shirt, I think that's representing them as a canadian yeah, and I don't think they realized.
Speaker 1:Well, that's quite a generalization, but I don't know if really most canadians quite understand colonialism as a term, as a social function.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I don't know if that is necessarily explained well enough, like I don't remember trying to explain to a buddy. It's like, okay, like, let's say, you had a motorcycle, like you love your Harley. And he's like, yeah, man, I love my Harley. I'm like, yeah, you love your Harley, you fixed your Harley, you work on your Harley, you love your Harley. Love your Harley, you fixed your Harley, you work on your Harley, you love your Harley. I'm like, yeah, and then I just show up and I go into your garage and I get on your Harley and I drive it away and he's like well, that's against the law. I'm like, well, let's say there's no law and I just took it. I come back a week later and I say you know what? I'll let you ride my Harley for five minutes once a week, good deal.
Speaker 1:Huh, he's like, well, it's not yours, it's mine. I'm like not anymore, yeah. And he's like, well, I was like huh, see, like that's, it's, it's sort of a thing that's never fixed. Like so there's, it's not. Like you're gonna uncolonize, like it's not, that's not a thing, right. But how can we unlearn that system so that we can hopefully breed in some type of new unified I don't know like what. What is the mix?
Speaker 2:when you're saying, like horrible things happening like this is what happens to indigenous people. It's like it's more that this is uncomfortable, that we allow this to happen to indigenous people, because that story really it wouldn't happen if it was flipped that's right 100 there's those underlying values when we always say Indigenous people, what is prosperity and what is richness Is how much you can share. Right.
Speaker 2:The person, like I think the actual Ojibwe word who has like A freezer Is a hoarder Like the person Can't even imagine that that you're supposed to have To, that you're supposed to have to share, not to possess, to say I've taken it. Yeah. Right, so to have that bike. It's for me to share with everyone that I know needs this kind of like speed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a tool yeah. Yeah, yeah well, that's great. You know, I love that because that's it's. It's a different culture. It's not like I mean, it's so hard to get stuck off that point like that. The lens is always gonna be milky, right, like you're always gonna have a shade of, of, of, of shadow or something, not making the image clear because we don't.
Speaker 2:We're looking at it from the wrong angle, maybe the whole time yeah, and there's different ways to handle things, like, um, I'm sure you're familiar with the medicine wheel. It's usually that, and we actually would don't like diagrams of it, because it's supposed to be more like a sphere, like a real ball, and you've got red, yellow, black and white and it's because, like from whatever dimension or, I guess, perspective, the sphere is going to be looking at different things and the way I need to be spoken to might not be the same way as you need to be spoken to, and the thing someone else needs to hear to get us living that good life is going to be very different than what I'm told. We all get out the house a very different way, as long as we get out the house right.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm not going to try to tell you my way because it might not work for you, but we need to figure this out together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we both need to meet on the street. We can't kill each other. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:As you know, I canceled our meeting tomorrow and that was because of grassy narrows, and you need to stop poisoning our people. Yeah. That's what it comes down to, if anyone wants to look up justice for grassy?
Speaker 1:yeah, and half the half the reserves in saskatchewan still don't have drinking water. Yeah, like, what are you talking about? You know, like every little rural town, every single one, and when saskatchewan, we got one, every grid, like, I mean thousands of small towns yeah, if they're off reserve. They got water, gas, gas, sewage, everything as soon as you cross that reserve line. Now you don't have water. Well, how did that happen? That was a conscious choice. At some point someone was like nope, no pipes there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we gathered together to hope to stop poisoning a community that is predominantly indigenous I can't say just predominantly. What white person lives on the reserve?
Speaker 1:Not many not many no.
Speaker 2:So and that also can go back to the Indian act I am married to a non-indigenous person. That means my child can't have status, so there's a whole book to unload, just yeah.
Speaker 1:But if you're a male indigenous and you marry a white woman, I think you can still.
Speaker 2:It is different, yeah.
Speaker 1:It is different yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:My wife had to reclaim her Métis status because they had left it from residential schools. They basically walked away from status and now, with the new Métis Nation acts that are just going through in the last month here, they're able to finally reclaim some of their history. And I actually made a note of that because I want to talk about that, but we're already at a half an hour, like we're flying through time here. No, this is great. I love this. So what we're going to do is we're going to take a quick break for our commercials, but when I get back, one of the topics I want to talk to you is concept of reclamation and what that means, because, um, I think that's a very important point for for anybody that has been culturally displaced, you know, and including first nation. So we'll be back right after these commercials don't go anywhere here on our, on our, on our special episode today of truth and reconciliation episodes with ranty jay, as she calls herself, and we'll be right back on the cwB Association podcast.
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Speaker 1:Today we have a special edition of the episode regarding truth and reconciliation, and we're just talking culture stuff today culture stuff. So let's let's talk about what we said. I want to bring up the point of reclamation and and this is first I'm going to throw out my kind of my angle to this is that anybody can go through a process of reclamation. This isn't specific to any single culture, person, heritage, and I think that I think if more people in general understood their cultural identity going back generations, they would have a better understanding of where they are today. For some cultures that's easy to do. You know, you run into a scottish guy. They'll be like my great grandma's blah, blah, blah in this neighborhood, blah, blah, blah. They can go back 10 generations and know the flag and the tartan and the thing and the that and the this, because their culture allowed it right.
Speaker 1:It gets very hard for people like you and I who are from colonialized countries because our culture was effectively removed from us. How do we start reclaiming that? You know like what levels is there, what pieces are involved. You know what's your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2:I mean because we are in September. I mean, if you are, I think, if you're wearing an orange shirt this September 30th, um, over the next two weeks, you have to participate in active ways of resistance, of keeping us alive.
Speaker 2:Um, and it can't just be arbitrary, it really um, like there's actual indigenous people suffering in your own backyard yep as we speak, we are illegally getting arrested for protesting peacefully, for fighting, like just for your lives, for rights, for lands, like imagine wherever you are trying to get through covet without fresh water no, I couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1:Well, and look at some of the protests that are non-cultural in this culture country. I don't want to say any specifics because they'll get in hot water, but there's some protests in this country that are non-indigenous and like non-cultural, and they're 100 000 people across the country. No one's in trouble, no one gets arrested. Meanwhile, I have, you know, uh, one young fellow walked from northern saskatchewan to our parliament, put a tent in the front to to, you know, protest the tristan, um, what was the name? But he was wonderful, the premier would not come out and then he got arrested. There's one person how much of a threat is one person trying to spread some education that you need to imprison that? You know what it's, I guess. How do you reclaim when there's people resisting your reclamation?
Speaker 2:it's so funny that we've come to this point. I guess can I share just a little spoken word here and I wasn't able to do so, but it like speaks so eloquently um, it says we have children to raise elders, to care for language, to revitalize sovereignty, to exercise dances, to celebrate bloodlines, to honor rights, to assert water, to protect lands, to love seeds, to cultivate medicines, to propagate life ways to love. And do you see why we need you as an indigenous person?
Speaker 2:like I very easily not owned that indigen you know, that is just one side, and how many people feel like they have not known or didn't acknowledge what was going on in my day-to-day life?
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, like I mean, when I was in high school I played sports and I mean I'm getting old, I just had my birthday last week but I mean I'm in Regina. Regina was the home of the last residential school to shut down in 1996.
Speaker 2:In.
Speaker 1:LaBrette, saskatchewan, we used to play sports against LaBrette kids all the time right and it was just us playing the reserve schools that's what we would call it. We're just out playing the reserve schools and we'd play against the reserves and they'd always kick our butts because they're very talented physically at sports. And that was, like I mean, my high school like that, shut down in 96. I graduated in 93. And that was like I mean, my high school, like that, shut down 96, I graduated 93. So the next generation after me was still interacting with residential schools and we had no idea of the escape that they would return to once they were done hanging out with us off reservers. They'd go back to their school to be treated terribly by priests and nuns in the system and all of us were just completely ignorant to that fact yeah, and I think that we, like we need to be recognizing who is falling through the cracks right now.
Speaker 2:What barriers are in place to allow that?
Speaker 1:well, foster the foster system is broken. Um, I mean, my wife is a social worker, she works in foster care. You know the misrepresentation. Statistically it doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes they say residential school just switched to the word of foster care or CAS right, the numbers cannot lie. I mean I worked for our Native Child and Family Services Toronto, so I worked for CAS for four and a half years. I worked with families that were, you know, high risk low income. So I mean seeing the worst, the worst, but also recognizing what rug was pulled out from under them yeah, or how many rugs yeah it's hard to climb a rope when it's not tied to anything.
Speaker 1:That's what someone, that's what someone told me once. It's like, you know, it's like, uh, when you come from poverty, you're tying a rope that's not tied to anything, you're just endlessly hand over hand. I interviewed once, uh, someone that said, being in poverty is like in a constant state of fight or flight, from morning till night, and that leaves you no space to be self-aware, that gives you no space to be conscious of other people's needs, let alone your own. Um, and in that heightened state of fear and, and I guess, uh, trauma, how do you work forward, you forward. You're not even thinking about the next day. Tomorrow is an eternity, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. So I moved out of Toronto four years ago, so I moved out to Mississauga, as you mentioned, and that was 2020, and that was close to the first summer of the 2015 coming out. And you know, as a collective, I saw there was a group on Facebook chatting about if they're going to do fireworks or not, at the same time as us finding the graves. And I'm new to the community and I'm like I let's just see when it gets dark, let's see where we live, let's see what this neighborhood's about yeah, yeah and that's a fearful thing.
Speaker 2:And the fireworks were going, my tears were just running down my face and so I wanted to go out. I was like I'm leaving, I'm getting out of here, I'm going towards wherever this is, and you know very quickly you realize, the statistics of murder missing indigenous women and girls and two spirits. So my partner being very rational and that anchor being like you're not allowed to go out there, Do that Nothing good will come of it. It's danger for you. Because of why? Well, because we're 10 times more likely to go missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely no you have a daughter and probably even higher likeliness to not even be looked for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know like the statistics.
Speaker 1:It's not even the part about getting kidnapped. Yeah, it's not even the part about getting kidnapped. Yeah, people get kidnapped, but usually they look for them, not indigenous women. They didn't even know that they were missing. Like, yeah, when you look at picton and what happened out west, you know like two-thirds of the women that were dug up on his burial site weren't even listed as missing. That's how little attention it got. It was like that's crazy. That's someone's child. That's someone's child, that's someone's person, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like for you to dispose or think so low. There's certain images like we're talking about that is sold so nicely about indigenous people that it really average people get. They miss out on the positive size in the culture. So, like the idea of like indigenous inventors, that's a weird. People do not hear that. And you have olivia pull who totally, um, inspired by a traditional credo board, made a jolly jumper, pat in the jolly jumper and like how many people know that?
Speaker 1:not very much, but that would go against that narrative that we're not doing anything and we're not helping, just about what's really happening well, we were just talking before the show about, you know, we did a thing out in monkton uh, strong indigenous community out and especially the north of nova scotia there, when we were talking about the skills.
Speaker 1:You know, because I I work in a welding world and skills trades. You know, this has been my life and I've always been very keen about my own family's culture because we were displaced, so not only colonized in South America but then further displaced and exiled as political refugees to Canada. So it's like twice culture erased. You know, and I've always been keen for, with my family, to try to maintain what we could language, food, blah, blah, blah. And one of the things that I always thought was important to a culture and this is to your point of invention is the fact that every culture, all our indigenous First Nations cultures going all the way back, were incredibly ingenious and intelligent and inventive and all these amazing creative things that they did to survive in the worst of the worst environments and droughts and famines, disease. They got through it they got through it without western anything.
Speaker 1:They got through it on their own, through their own creativity and ingenuity, and that needs to be highlighted, like it's a huge concept that you know the savior mentality like oh, we save these people from themselves. It's like that's not a thing at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no very much untrue Like that story is not serving us. I think that's always. I'm what in my mind. I'm playing, you know, wednesday, adams yeah yeah, dinner versus what she was supposed to do? Yeah, very much opposite.
Speaker 1:But one is there's truth being told, right now, how do you approach these with your daughter? You know, like you got a six-year-old. Yeah, the world is what it is. You have a mixed marriage, so you know that in some ways, I think, makes things a little bit easier. You know, my kids are from a mixed marriage too, so they get a little bit more perspective from a couple angles. Right, in some ways. Yeah, what do you think Like? What are your thoughts? You know I in some ways. Yeah, what do you think like? What are your thoughts.
Speaker 2:You know I'm curious. I love it with my daughter because you know you have books and you know the children's books that come out. They're usually not just negative you know raven and the loon is about, you know, not retelling a story that you weren't there for neither of us are the raven or the loon, so we're not going to talk, like you're not going to talk about stories that you're not present for. So, having those messages, those underlying stories, I try to heighten those rather than it being all trauma dumping.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hawatha the peacemaker. At the end of it they have, like this note to the parent to say you know, this is why Canada has this democracy it's actually based off of indigenous cultures and the way they operate it and worked actually based off of indigenous cultures and the way they operate it and worked. So it's like we obviously have very close ties together, but why are we treated not as equals? Yeah, you know and what a?
Speaker 1:what age do you think it's appropriate, then, to start giving the other side, the darker side of the story? If ever I feel I feel like there's a place for it, but I don't know where, like yeah, I have always shown her that side yeah yeah, and us going to the residential school after the 215 came.
Speaker 2:We live close, like I said to grantbert, so going to the mush wall, um, I think it's tough because she has questions about church and wanting to be part of a church yeah that's not coming from me yeah, and I. I had that with my kids too yeah, you don't want to be the same person to deny them of things.
Speaker 2:You want to give them both sides yeah I just find if you open up the comment section below anything that's related to orange shirts or like anything that tries to show um a fair perspective of indigenous people in the comments, you will always see the truth of how ugly you're feeling towards you and they have sometimes you see bible quotes of why residential school is okay, you know yeah, I grew up in a non-religious home for a number of reasons.
Speaker 1:That should be obvious to people, but I didn't grow up with religion at all in my house. Um, but my son in his teen years got interested in exploring it and I was like, yeah, go for it, man, it's uh, I'm not gonna hold you back, but it's definitely not something that I identify nor agree with. I mean, there's no space in that book for me, right like it's not a book about me, right yeah yeah hard it is hard she came.
Speaker 2:She, I mean I didn't participate in a naming ceremony when I was a child, but I mean my mom didn't have access. She was a teen mom. She was a white teen mom, so I recognize where I have an advantage. So we went into a sweat. Close by Her name was. So on point of being McGeezy Quay Eagle is profound in our cultures, very similar to the Virgin Mary in Christianity stories. So her receiving this very powerful little message in this mighty little body was really cool. And.
Speaker 2:I wonder, like, what would I be like if I was given a name and certain colors to watch out for, as I, you know, go through life? It might've been helpful, useful, yeah, your identity, yeah exactly Like she has, like certain colors and stories that she, she leans into because they've said those things to her. That's awesome. I mean, I didn't get to participate in a sweat until I was already older Any type of pipe ceremonies. I was already a teenager or an adult 20s, 30s Whereas my daughter has participated in a sweat.
Speaker 2:When it got dark she did get very, very scared, but she knew every single song before we went into the bush and that was awesome that reclamation that's beautiful that when I'm no longer around and she's out and about in the world, she knows her roots already and I didn't even think about those things when I was her age now, what about language?
Speaker 1:language is such a big part for me. I still speak perfect, uh, spanish, which is funny because that's like level two colonialism is being able to speak the language you're brought. I don't speak mapuche, mapungun. That's what we speak in south america, south, south, my, where I'm from. I know a few words. I named my son, one of the names, but I haven't been able to reclaim my OG language.
Speaker 1:But I was able to maintain my Spanish coming to Canada, which I felt was important to hold on to something right. How important is language in your world, your daughter, or even what you think within Canadian culture?
Speaker 2:I mean, people gifted my daughter like a numbers book, a letters book, and they were all like magma, like that access is somehow like us. We envision an arrow going backwards, like I feel like I was the one that went backwards and now she's kind of doing that arrow forward. She has that access that was just never a priority for me.
Speaker 2:Growing up, I mean I know little words like well, all in being, thank you, um. And then I mean when I went to teach in south korea, they were I was teaching koreans english. An indigenous person has gone overseas to teach english. Like this is weird, but it was wild because they were like trying to what they were teaching. I felt the perfect person to say it was like learn this english, but know your roots. You need to still know your korean. And for the time I spoke like an indigenous language was out there, like a hundeshoni, anishinaabe, moan. They were speaking indigenous languages, being like they're these languages, don't? They're not spoken, they're considered a dead language in canada. And they were referencing us and I was just like, oh, like being blown away a bit um I, I, I mean my daughter does ask me these questions, so I think it's organically happening.
Speaker 1:I know that they added Cree to some of the language apps. I thought that was kind of a neat step. I mean, out here in Saskatchewan it's a lot of Cree and Diné, although Diné is arguably predecessor to Cree. I've gotten into that argument before with people here, but historically it's all interesting. You know what I mean. Um, it's good, it's good to to know that there's these languages. I would love to see it make a comeback like first nations university here in regina they have a whole language program. You know, I think about just signing up for that, just to learn, like out of respect for the land I live on. Maybe I should know some of the words that the people spoke. You know what I mean. Like, it seems like like I learned the english getting here because I was, I had to. I had to learn english to live in canada. Um, but technically that's not its og language.
Speaker 2:No, maybe I should be learning some of the og languages um, like when you have education up to grade seven on our reserves, um, and then you go off reserve to continue your high school, you have your being bilingual. It's like you're not speaking, your first language being english you're not second language being french, like where indigenous languages lie, like I mean it wasn't an offering for me in high school, but spanish was, I mean I learned it is a colonial language too um so like where does it stand?
Speaker 1:and then that's like well, whenever you include something indigenous, it does seem to drop on the list any type of yeah well, and even the spanish that I speak in chile, because chile was not colonized, well, because of geography. Um, so it's the the mix. There is very indigenous spanish, like lots of indigenous words got into the language, so we're even considered like a low level of spanish. Like we speak be spanish because we have so much indigenous words in it. I'm like, how does adding indigenous make it worse? Yeah, like it's an immediate thought, like, oh, you're using indigenous language in your whatever. That makes it worse, like does it.
Speaker 1:I don't know how that works, like if I use a French word in English. Like I don't know if I say kindergarten and it's a German word, that's a stupid word. Like no one says that. You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think, just despite their efforts, the fact that we're even having this conversation it just kind of highlights it, it's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's going somewhere. I don't think like my language. They do have syllabus, Like it looks like pictographs kind of thing. Yeah. I would love to have like that kind of connection to be able to like read and understand or have that, but I don't have that right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see and we'll see when it comes, because somebody's gonna have to invest in a university to do the research, do all this stuff, and well, who's gonna be paying for that? You know, like who's gonna? And it's gonna be tough because it's not the, the system's not gonna be very forthcoming in that research. There'll be a lot of other things that'll be higher on their list, right. So, of course, yeah, you know to. To kind of bring it full circle now, because you know the podcast, what I do at work, last year when I did this interview um with terry, he brought up, like even the irony of why we're having this podcast with a steelworking company, when steelworking represents some of the worst colonization harm done to North America which I am aware of to indigenous peoples, because we see the land that they're on as a valuable resource for us to to dominate and to take and to extract and to abuse.
Speaker 1:Um, but if, like you said, we're the arrow pulling back and we want to shoot forward, if we want to draw that baseline and say, okay, starting today, how do we, how do we create a more unified or cohesive plan between first nations and say the trades community or the working community? You know, you got the protests of pipelines, you have gas wells being blown up, you have illegal land proprietary ship going down in northern alberta and bc. How do we? How do we work forward? Because you know, it's not like the reserves don't want to make the money, it's not like the indigenous cultures don't want to be a part of the prosperity. Um, they also just want to have some respect to the decision making and to me that doesn't seem like that big of an ask.
Speaker 1:I don't think any of the reserves are going to say no, but they're going to say wait, let's think this through. And that like where are we stuck here?
Speaker 2:I think there is that rush mentality, that western society is very rush, rush, rush, like you can barely wait before you're pressing, send on that next email, or like trying to rush at that coffee or making somewhere get somewhere on time, um, whereas we've never been that way and it's always been like let's think it through and think about it long term. Uh, the warnings that have been said when these engagements have happened. There has been warnings of like if, if you do this, this will happen, and how many times it can be ignored, those red flags when we talk about like four years and yeah um, devastation.
Speaker 2:Really. It has to be more than a check mark box, any type of engagement. It can't just be that I talked to this person on this day and they were okay with it check it's, it's done Whereas you know reservations take a very small percentage of all of Canada. Like there's a way to avoid it, you're choosing not to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember looking at the map of the Northern Keystone XL pipeline and you know, the reservation was like well, we're not saying no, you can't go through here. Was like, well, we're not saying no, you can't go through here, but if you're going to go through here, you got to pay us the same amount of money that you paid the white owner on the other side of the river to go through his land. That's literally all we're asking, and and. And. It was like no, we won't, and we won't reroute it either. Well, that's not a negotiation at all.
Speaker 2:Like and I just think it's just the complete disposal, that complete like push off of what you're going to abruptly end or change infrastructures. So I mean, I think of like a very good book. Um, have you read cottagers versus indians?
Speaker 1:no, I haven't oh, it's such a good writing that down like a play.
Speaker 2:But it's about our kawafas in ontario. You know the, where we have our great lakes, where there's cottagers um, you know it's like their summer home and you know they. They want the lake, maybe just to teach their kids how to leisurely swim. You have people you know four generations in being like this is where I I wild rice grows here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I live and eat off this.
Speaker 2:This is my infrastructure. I live here all year round and I'm getting angry about it and tearing it all up, and then all of the water is now not usable?
Speaker 1:No good yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's no infrastructure for food to be harvested. No good, yeah, and there's no infrastructure for food to be harvested.
Speaker 1:It's so the dynamics are very comparing apples to oranges and I feel like a lot of these apples yeah, it's more like comparing apples to sea monkeys. I don't know. It's like not even in the same ballpark Exactly. And that's been happening lots in Saskatchewan actually the lake, the cottages around here because they've been on reserve land and, honestly, the reserves didn't really care. Like, you want to build your houses on reserve land, they basically pay no taxes. These people have been building these houses but then all of a sudden they're starting to sell these homes that they basically built for free, for a million dollars. And then the reserves like, well, if you're gonna do that, we're gonna start charging you rent. And then everyone was up in arms, being like how dare you charge us rent on land that we've been on for free for the last 50 years? It's like, well, you, we're just using your own system back at you and you don't like it.
Speaker 2:Like and I think what is also like what we're ignoring here is like when you say like on reserves, the crown owns the land.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Because you don't think I'm qualified to be a homeowner if I'm on reserve, but it's crown land. Yeah. So when you have people that are coming on it that just wants to build their cottage, it's very different relationship. People do not want to come on it because that being crowned, they don't really own it.
Speaker 1:They have to you know a year lease yeah, yeah, and they used to do those hundred year leases that were shady af, but yeah right.
Speaker 2:So that's a dark thing to say that we don't think you're qualified as a person to be able to be a homeowner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, even though it's your home. And I think, other people just coming to build their, you know, their three three month home. Who cares? But for others, no, that's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not right. What about the you know, know, education into the trades? Do you see that being um, useful? Beneficial, because I've been pondering this, thought right, because, like I would love to get more trades programming run, like I'm working actively right now on trades programming in western canada on reserve, to be like, hey, we'll come to you because you know, I understand, and I remember saying this to a group of northern kids from dene that came down to regina for for a training session, and it was almost like they were in a different world yeah they felt like they were immigrants within their own province because they were far away and I said you know you being here for this course is counterproductive, because you're not comfortable, you're not, you don't feel safe, you're kind of scared, you're far from home.
Speaker 1:You don't even speak really our same language, because when you get quite up north it's pretty traditional. So, it's, it's. I was. I remember coming back from that training session being like we got to do this better. We got to go to them. Right, we got to go up north and I got to get up there. Do you see that as being useful? And you can be honest? You can be like Max, you're wasting your time. That's dumb.
Speaker 2:So much opportunity for MLUs, like memorandums of understanding, that this is how we traditionally do it, not as indigenous people but say as the traits that normally have to come here and maybe you got to get this many hours completed with this type of persons to have this type of licensing and then you go. Let's say you go up north. This kid learns from this elder to do the same job, but they don't have their papers. How are we actually being trauma informed to actually see education that happens within Indigenous communities as equal?
Speaker 1:As equal yeah.
Speaker 2:Is there a way we know, when people come internationally you gave that as an example that they can take an equivalently kind of test? You know if back home you might be a support worker. Let's see what skills you have. That relates to ours, and then we need to make sure that you meet our standards. You vibe yeah.
Speaker 2:Same thing. So I think education reform is absolutely necessary. When we're talking about trades, I mean women, indigenous women in the trades is like a highest percentage, I believe. Um, when I did work like there was a liaison with stats, canada and that one standing out. So, within the labor market, apprenticeships are a wonderful opportunity for growth, but bridging these two the the gap, essentially like a liaison and it's not an easy gap, because people talk about that bridging that gap yeah, and you're, you're trying to bridge from, uh, an authentic, organic lifestyle, cultural training, format, the first nation's.
Speaker 1:You know form of education, which is storytelling. You know hand-to-hand mentorship. You know, there there's some things that we have incorporated in western society from indigenous, but we, we like to call it other things yeah but on the other side of the fence we have the standardized apprenticeship system of canada, which is quite colonial in its format, with the numbers and the forms and the paperwork and the bureaucracy, and, and which is going to be very off-putting. So there's a bit of a gap there yeah, you know, and and it's it's.
Speaker 1:It is tricky to figure out how I think I, you, you know, I think I'm just brainstorming. I'm like I think the equivalency is doable, I think that's doable and I think there's formats to do that. You know, that can be thought through. But I think the larger picture, the 10,000, you know, meters up picture, is that the employers themselves are still not informed. The edgy, you know the themselves are still not informed. The edgy, you know the, the trades markets are still sexist, racist, bigot, you know. So you're gonna, you're gonna struggle trying to get the, that kid who wants to be a welder from nippawan, saskatchewan. Um, the training, let's say we do it. We do it in your home, in your backyard. We involve your elders and we follow, you know, a timetable that is adequate and respectful to your culture. At the end of it, we come out and you got the certificates that you needed. Now I got it. Now you got to go out there and get a job right and yeah that's a whole nother barrier now it's not going to happen
Speaker 1:right, like I mean it's a barrier on top of a barrier. Like you're talking about pulling the rug out earlier and it's not gonna happen. Right, like I mean it's a barrier on top of a barrier, like you're talking about pulling the rug out earlier. And it's like I look at it, I'm like man, we're pulling out the steps, like we're pulling out 30 rugs, like I mean, and and I I'm not a negative thinking person, I am an eternal optimist and I'm always like okay, next barrier, let's work on that one now. But do you see these collaborations as being good? Is there, is you know, is there stuff that perhaps we should be looking at from a different angle?
Speaker 2:I think, like when you look at percentages, when we're talking about like urban indigenous, that's like a starting point when we say, like there's very low numbers too on reserve um and less and less all the time which is convenience, it's bad, um, but you have people coming out like you say it's almost international, like they come in suburbs, towns, cities, and then they're like at a loss, yeah, but then you have spaces, like when I mentioned a friendship center or when we attend meetings about like infrastructure and you know the percentage of indigenous people are, let's say, um, houseless, and you don't have you, you don't have any shelter. That includes any type of cultural training that you're still not going to meet.
Speaker 2:There's no accommodations to meet that requirement so it's not that you you want to set them up up for success. Like homework bound is one of those where you know if a mom wants into the a new education, they're going to be provided both their housing and child care for their child, as long as, as you know, they they keep with it, they keep with their schooling, if that's nursing, whatever that might be. Um, and just following where those numbers are but as pretending those numbers aren't available to us is not doing us any good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like, let's use what we have, the knowledge we have. Be more directed. Yeah, be more directed with our approaches. I think that's good.
Speaker 2:Because we're collecting data.
Speaker 1:It's happening yeah do you feel like we're moving the needle at all through this type of education like the you me podcast, the you presenting to corporate industries? Um, you know, a lot of it is check boxes to corporate world like, oh, we better bring in the so-and-so this year, um, but I've always found that there's, you'll get value if you want it. You know what I mean absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll get it if you want it. I don't know, I think it really. It needs to be out there. You need to be conscious of it. You need to have you know, within children's books, within your like browsing. It needs to be just integrated with your day.
Speaker 2:The things that we can talk about when I'm like, oh, corn was indigenous food, or if I've been talking about like just average everyday ways yeah you just can't stop and always exclude, at all times when it's not serving the main street, yeah, and even if a purposeful exclusion, sometimes not even with a reason yeah and just, I mean we talk about these truth and reconciliation hires and, uh, it can be that showing of a check marker box, like that's not what we want, that's not going to help down the line either the idea of living life is not. That's not going to help either of the parties.
Speaker 1:It's. It's really just pulling more people into for further colonization. That's what I've always had the vibe in my life. Coming up the corporate ladder. I started off as a welder, worked my way up into a desk and at many, many times in my career it's been a feeling of like you know, like oh, how did you get into this space? Or how did you? You know? Are you the diversity hire, are you the? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like oh, well maybe I am, maybe I am, but that's not what I want to hear. Like let me, let me do the job, let me do the thing, and there's always kind of an expectation that, okay, like a carrot on a stick, like you'll do better if you fall in line more, you'll make more money. If you fall in line more, you'll have more access to promotions if you fall in line more.
Speaker 2:And I find that to be demoralizing often exactly yeah, it's not gonna help, it's tough. I what you're saying is true, right like there's nothing that's gonna fix that overnight. People feel unfair even when they have the advantage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the privilege yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean maybe teaching those inherent rights and those inherent privileges. Those are happening, I think, organically now.
Speaker 1:I hope so, I think the youth is much better equipped than ever. I mean, I have two adult children now. I don't know, are they millennials or dads. I think my daughter's a millennial, like my son's a zed um, but even in their upbringing they they had a much clearer understanding, even the mixing of schools. When I was a kid I was like the only brown kid in my school, like it was weird, like uh. And now I feel like even things have just mixed more, which just forces these conversations to naturally happen organically, even amongst themselves as children, which I think is good Right.
Speaker 2:I think If it's not just one direction, you know, if indigenous people always have to say why and where, who they are, what community they come from, who they represent, which family of theirs attended residential school, community they come from, who they represent, which family of theirs attended residential school. Do you have a credit card or not?
Speaker 2:uh, those daily funny interactions, um, it should be happening to everyone so you have settlers and there's immigrants, yeah, and when canadians want to take on, you know their story and want to share their stories. I think that would be really useful and helpful, very similar to I think we've gone into meetings, especially this virtual realm of you. Know my, my name's Randy, so my pronouns are she, her, and people need to like I'll say that ahead of time sometimes Randy can be a boy's name. Same thing. It can't just be the indigenous people talking about where their roots are, and when Canadians start to step up and really want to say where, where they've come from, that will be a different time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Someone asked me if I was offended if people asked me about my culture and I was like, absolutely not at all.
Speaker 1:I mean there might be times I don't feel like talking about it, that that's neither here nor there, but I would never consider someone being like, oh it, that that's neither here nor there. But I would never consider someone being like, oh, you know, like where you're culturally brought from, I'm more than proud to be like yeah, I'm from south america, I was born in this country and this is how I got here, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And you know like, I think those stories help people identify you as a character and as a personality better yeah, like at one point when I was working at near child and Family Services, I was doing a program called HIPPY and that's home instruction of parents of preschool youngsters, and essentially they were like Canadians want to stay in denial about their stories and their history.
Speaker 2:So, what we're doing? This is a program for three, four, five year olds. There's going to be a new book every month from an Indigenous author, and we're going to be a new book every month from an indigenous author and we're going to be teaching our kids like 10 minutes every day. So I would meet with the parent and the parent, would you know, do these activities at home. Children didn't even know I was in your home. They just saw their parent as like a cool guidance counselor doing these stories or activities suddenly.
Speaker 2:And you know, by the end of you know this 30 week kind, of course they did a little kind of like a kindergarten graduation but they could talk about you know a day in life on the reserve and what it means to be following trekking and footprints and I don't know it was. It was so rich and valuable and it was wild to hear that it started in bc and it wasn't supposed to be like an indigenous resource. But canada with reconciliation, I think it's a really great one, yeah, it fits all right.
Speaker 1:Last couple questions before we call the interview, because I could chat all day. I love this topic. Not I shouldn't.
Speaker 3:That sounds bad I love our problems, like you know what I mean For the people that listen to the podcast.
Speaker 1:So we have welders, engineers, business owners, steel trades, which is generally a very well-funded, prosperous industry. You know, in this industry what would be some pieces of advice to help welcome First Nations or Indigenous peoples? Into their workplace to make them feel perhaps a little bit more seen or represented. So, like we said, sometimes it feels like you're walking into a different world and it's only two hours away for some people in their own country. How do we make them feel better about their choices to be there?
Speaker 2:I mean you could like find the indigenous land you live on. That's one way, not as an acknowledgement, the way people do land acknowledgements, but there's native landca and I feel like that can be eyeopening. You can make a difference, just like you know. Educate those around you on, like the true history of Canada and the impact, the very intergenerational trauma that stems, you know, from residential school colonization. Um, yeah, it's, I don't think it's as much as money where your mouth is, but be willing to participate in those education reforms. And which ones are you getting in the way of? Because you're in spaces that we're, we're not, we're not at the table we're not invited.
Speaker 1:You are you have the power well, that's very true. I remember working at a shop one time. We had this uh, what was his name? His name was ricky, native guy, and he was like you guys should come to the powwow this weekend and everyone in the shop was like what, what?
Speaker 1:and then and then I was like I'll go, and then we ended up getting like five or six guys from the shop and we all headed out. We had such a good time. We camped out for the weekend and ate a pile of food and danced and learned to jig and a bunch of fun stuff. And I remember the work day back on Monday our boss was like oh yes, what did you guys do? Oh, we all went out with you know Ricky to the powwow and he was like what Really? It's like yeah, and then we kind of gave all the other people who didn't go kind of a feeling of FOMO, like you guys missed out, man.
Speaker 1:Like this was a great time and I think those conversations aren't had enough Like celebrate the awesome stuff. Yeah, it's good, it's, you know, it's and and it's it's history. This is what was here, right?
Speaker 2:And it's noticing those current headlines and how. How don't you know you're implicated? Right. So I mean when we used to provide tea and talks to the different friendship centers. One of them was about Jordan's principle, and that's you know, it's devastating. Jordan had health issues. He didn't have access to health because we didn't know where to bill it, and then they created this Jordan's principle so that way, no kid is left behind. However, that was passed at that government level, but in practice, jordan himself wouldn't qualify for this funding, even though it's named after him.
Speaker 2:The policies are currently in place. He himself would not be able to do all the paperwork, do all that administration aspect the bureaucracy yeah, so recognize when you are being a barrier and what things could be improved and that that's wonderful, and that's not just in your daily lives. What is harder for other people? That is not in my way.
Speaker 1:I hate bureaucracy. Yeah, I work in it, but whatever, that's another story. Fight the power, all right. Well, last question what do you got coming up, what's in the near future for Randy? You know what projects are you working on. What are some cool things people could maybe check out in the next you know month here, or for or for TNC day. You know, like, what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, check out. Just justice for grassy, grassy arrows. That's where I will be, but I there's Danny Wenjack. He always has stuff currently happening. This coming weekend in Mississauga, if you want to come to the Riverwood Conservatory, one of the friendship centers they host an event that will be there on Saturday. My daughter will be hoop dancing. I will be drumming. The following week, on the 28th, you have the university of toronto, mississauga. They have their powwow. Um yeah, come out in community in october. We're also attending um a star, star reading, like a teepees and telescopes kind of event oh, that's so fun stories to be, to be shared to
Speaker 1:participate really and there's always good food.
Speaker 2:Yes. Awesome.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thank you very much, randy. I really appreciate you taking the time for this For all the listeners that have been following. All her information will be shared with the episode, so you know we're always looking to share resources and spread the wealth of knowledge that we have. I really enjoy you taking the time out to be on the podcast today, randy.
Speaker 2:Excellent. Thank you so much Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't go anywhere yet, but for all the people that would have been following along and listening to the podcast, thanks so much, not just for following along to the podcast and what we do on the weekly here we love getting the stories out to you from industry and around the world but also for the special events, like we do with Skills Canada, with the Indigenous groups, with the people of colour when we did Black History Month episodes and even the LGBTQ2 plus community.
Speaker 1:We're not just here to show that welding is important and a part of our infrastructure for this country, but also that the people within our communities need to be a part of our infrastructure, and that's, I think, the big message that we're trying to prove here is. That is, that it takes all of us to, it takes a village to to really raise us all up, and and we need everybody so not just for trades, but for all our other things that we're working on in our wonderful worlds. So stay tuned to the next episodes, keep downloading and sharing and commenting, and also we have our new fan mail feature on Buzzsprout, so send us a mail from our fans if you'd like to get ahold of us. Stay tuned for the next episode. We'll see you there. We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 4:You've been listening to the cwb association welding podcast with max. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced byced by the CWB Group and presented by Max Heron, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.