The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 192 with Aaron Brandt and Max Ceron
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend Fabtech in Orlando, Florida this year. We are bringing you special episodes recorded in person to keep our members on top of what’s new and exciting in the steel and welding industry.
Join us as we welcome Aaron Brandt, President and COO of Hypertherm. Hypertherm is the worlds #1 requested plasma brand, trusted by more businesses and metal fabricators than any other. But that's not all—Aaron and I dive deep into the enriching culture at Hypertherm. Learn how the company has crafted a supportive environment that fosters career growth and empowerment. Explore in this episode how this forward-thinking company is shaping the cutting technology landscape with revolutionary products like the XPR 460 and PowerMax 45 Sync plasma systems, and expanding into the WaterJet sector with the acquisition of OMAX.
Check out Hypertherm:
Website: www.hyperthermassociates.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/hyperthermassociates
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hypertherm_plasma/
Thank you to our Podcast Advertisers:
Canada Welding Supply: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/
Miller: https://www.millerwelds.com/products/augmentedarc
Canaweld: https://canaweld.com/
Fabtech is North America’s largest metal forming, fabricating, welding, and finishing event! Schedule the next event in your calendar: September 8-11th, 2025 in Chicago, IL. https://www.fabtechexpo.com/
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
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Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to another edition of the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Duran and we are here in Fabtech in sunny Orlando. We're at 32 degrees today Celsius. We are nice and hot and I am sweating because I love the heat and it's all good. And I am sweating because I love the heat and it's all good. Today we're going to have our kickoff interview with Aaron Brandt, your president and COO of Hypertherm, and we're going to get rolling. So, aaron, how's it going? Man, it's going great. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Max, when did you get in? I got in last night. So actually there was a GATA event, so a gas and welding distributor event over the weekend in Phoenix. So I actually came to Florida to get away from the heat. Yeah, Was it hotter there than here. Yeah, so I'm going to convert for you.
Speaker 1:It's around 40. Oh wow, I'd love it. It was quite warm, she wouldn't.
Speaker 2:But yeah, got in late last night and ready to go.
Speaker 1:So you know you got two booths here. I've been looking at this show. What's your first impressions of Orlando as a new spot for?
Speaker 2:Fabtech yeah, I've never been here for an event before of any sort, so it's interesting. It's great to see an industry event in Florida and kind of see what kind of crowds we're going to get. I mean, the venue itself is great.
Speaker 1:It's huge, it's really good.
Speaker 2:You know, unfortunate thing is it's really spread out as well.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of walking.
Speaker 2:I was at our other booth earlier this morning. It's about a 15-minute walk outdoors to get back here and wearing a suit that's ideal for that. But yeah, lovely venue and hopefully we get the crowds. I mean, obviously the hurricane last week created a damper for a lot of people on prep and getting here and, luckily, that storm, you know, while there was a decent amount of tragedy from it wasn't as bad as some of the predictions.
Speaker 1:At the coast too, because we're more central here, right, so there's a little bit safer, yeah, for sure, now you're talking about the two booths, so what kind of footprint do you have here at Hypertherm?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we have our larger booth in uh forming and fabricating hall. So I'm not quite sure the size is uh, but that's where we have a lot of our automated products, our heavy industrial plasma equipment, our water jet product line as well, the omax product line is there and the welding booth is where. You know that's that's where a lot of our handheld for the plasmas plasma light automation really, really fits in is generally part of welding uh value streams.
Speaker 2:So that's where we like to at least have a reasonable size contact booth and a good crew manning both sides.
Speaker 1:You brought up the hurricane, which is going to be a theme for the week For sure, and I was thinking back to the COVID Chicago Fabtech. Have you been coming to lots of Fabtechs for?
Speaker 2:a while.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and I remember the sentiment going into that 2019 Chicago show and it was kind of scary, right, Because the world's shut down, but we're going to try to keep this show running and it was quite a bit scaled back, but the sentiment when the show was done was that the people that came came for a purpose and I have that kind of feeling for this. Like, I mean, I wouldn't try to compare tragedies, it isn't really the game, but you know the the hesitancy of some of the people on the fence with the hurricane may have kept them home, but the ones that got on the planes, they're here to do business. Yeah Right, and are you hoping to have kind of that same engagement from from the audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I think. I think, you see, that in any time there's and there's always something going on around the globe, right, Whether geopolitical disruption, and there's too many of those COVID, you name it. I remember the industrial cycle of 2008 and 9 and being at the Fabtech in Chicago after that.
Speaker 3:And it wasn't heavily populated.
Speaker 2:There wasn't a lot of people there, but those of us that were there, same thing. That's what's great about our industry, right it's that resilient North American point of view really optimistic.
Speaker 3:Business has got to keep moving.
Speaker 2:We're going to keep grinding and driving it forward, and that's what's great about you know the companies here in our industry in general.
Speaker 1:Something that I saw interesting in your profile is the amount of time you've been with Hypertherm.
Speaker 2:Like you're, talking about shows, 26 years yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's not common for our generation. I'm probably older than you but you know Gen X down that's not a common thing. You know it's kind of a boomer thing to be with a company for so long. What is it that has kept you at Hypertherm for 26 years? Because you know you've stepped through a number of roles over these 26 years Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I'll take being compared to a boomer as a compliment on the side there, but I did just turn 50 this year.
Speaker 1:Oh we're almost exactly the same age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's interesting and it wasn't the plan. So when.
Speaker 2:I joined Hypertherm and I started in R&D and I've never lived in New England before Our headquarters is in Hanover, new Hampshire, about two hours north of Boston, and I thought, well, yeah, this seems like an interesting company. We were maybe 300 to 350, we call them associates, but employees at the time and I thought, give it a try for three, four years and then on to the next gig. And then life happens and we'll walk through it. But it's a combination of just a love of the industry, really love the products and technology, but it's culture that keeps you somewhere, and so, for me, the culture of Hypertherm just being on a really strong growth ride with them over the years. And we'll talk about associate ownership maybe, but there's something about that that's just very special to me and that's what's kept me there for 26 years.
Speaker 1:Well, over the years I've met many people from Hypertherm and many have the same story of being there multiple years and and even progressing, having a pathway through the company from you know role X to role Y, which is not clearly defined in most companies. It's kind of a pinch point or or kind of an area of contention is you know, you hire me for X job, but I have ambitions. How do I get to you know the C-suite in 20 years? Most companies don't even entertain kind of that mentality, right, but it seems to happen at Hypertherm.
Speaker 2:It does you know, and it's interesting no-transcript goes incredibly quickly, but it's just great to see that dedication. And you know, I think it's a combination of things. I think for hypertherm, you know and this gets to culture, where it's, there's a of founding principles for us around respect for the individual, you know, really treating people well.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of Deming principles in sort of our founder was a big fan of Deming, and so a lot of his drive fear out of the workplace. Really let the people that are close to the work make the decisions, because they know best that's right, and really get total participation and involvement to drive things forward, but also always being humble and always knowing that, hey, if we can do something. You know, I think we have a lot of smart people in our organization, but there's a lot of smart people in the industry, so someone else can do it too. So always trying to drive it forward. And so you've got that, and then also this spirit of just continual growth and renewal, and that's why you know we talk a lot about growth.
Speaker 1:You'll hear often Financially right.
Speaker 2:You'll hear CEOs of any company talking about growth and for us it's not about hitting a target number but it's creating sort of a dynamic, sort of engaging culture and climate where people feel there's an up motivation. And if it hadn't been for that growth, I probably wouldn't have been there 26 years, because when I was always gunning for that next role, and I was always very comfortable talking to my boss at the time, just when he said hey, what, what's, uh, what's next?
Speaker 2:what's next for you, and I'm like I'm really looking at your job, it looks pretty nice and every, every boss I had to a tee was always 100 comfortable with that conversation and just very encouraging and so just really, um, continuing to invest in that culture and keep it dynamic so people feel you know, know, we'd love people to stay a long time, so the more the better.
Speaker 1:So you came on as a young man, as a mechanical engineer, mechanical engineer, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I went to Penn State University I did my graduate research on laser cutting, actually Back then, back then.
Speaker 1:Which was not like now. Not like now, and so it was inert gas.
Speaker 2:Laser cutting was the foundation of my research. Looking at you know pressure impacts on cutting and you know now, today, high pressure nitrogen cutting is the dominant way you do it, and so that's where I kind of got a lot of my founding. And at the time Hypertherm sponsored research in the same lab that I worked in. And I didn't work on that project I was on the laser one but met a couple of the engineers as they were visiting and they said hey, come up, check us out.
Speaker 1:This is pretty cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I said, great, yeah, I'll check you out. And so started in R&D and did that for quite a few years. Probably the first five years of my career. There was, as a practicing engineer, just sort of working in the lab, working on new cutting technology, porches, consumables, cutting process. How do I cut it Thicker, faster, better, cleaner?
Speaker 3:better operating costs.
Speaker 2:You know, it and just got to travel the world Go. All you know we're a global company.
Speaker 1:Well, you guys are everywhere.
Speaker 2:We're global, so over half of our revenue, or roughly half our revenue, is outside of North America and you know, the business I was working in was about 80% international at the time because you had the brick countries really building up strongly Brazil, russia, india, china. I spent a lot of time in Asia and just having a blast doing it, but for me, the intersection of technology and people has always been a passion. And so getting into leadership was kind of a natural role, so I moved in next to engineering leadership.
Speaker 2:So I ran for the team For the team and I was on what we call the mechanized systems team, so the products we sell in that that people would maybe know are the HPR high performance line. Xpr as well, and so I worked on the HPR 130, which was the original high performance product. At the time it was a little flagship. Yeah, the 130 amp oxygen process was the last one I worked on personally.
Speaker 2:So I'm pretty proud of that. And then I had a goal to get into business management, and so at the time Did you go back to school? I ended up taking some.
Speaker 2:I didn't get an MBA, but I ended up taking a bunch of targeted marketing courses, business management courses, just to round out the skillset, and the rest was on the job, Ended up taking over our mechanized division as general manager, which is our largest, and did that for about five years and that was I. Took over the year 2009. So it was right after the crash 2008, nine and we can talk about that.
Speaker 1:Here's the keys to the car with no tires.
Speaker 2:That was an experience for sure, but you get to show a great year over year growth.
Speaker 3:It's all about starting at the baseline.
Speaker 2:And then joined our senior management team about 10 years ago and held sort of a mix of roles, always responsible for our research and development teams our technology teams, but then also general business management, so I've worked with our software divisions. The last year, before moving into my current role and being on the CEO succession track, was our Waterjet OMAX division, which is headquartered in Seattle.
Speaker 1:The college I taught at before coming here, we had just bought the brand new 6-axis OMAX. It's a nice machine.
Speaker 3:It works pretty good.
Speaker 1:Excellent.
Speaker 2:Good, great to hear it.
Speaker 1:But let's go back to the mechanical engineer, because I worked with a lot of engineers. We support engineering heavily through the CWB and I've learned that engineers in their youth, as they come out of the engineering world into their first jobs, are pretty altruistic. They got a lot of dreams about, you know, developing and and working on projects to to do the next great thing and and involve themselves into big projects and big things.
Speaker 1:Right. How did, how did you find that wide focus and narrow it into one company where you know they say you're going to be working on the 130a or this Yep? Didn't you ever get the desire to be? You know what's out there, bigger or wider? Or was there enough there? Because Hypertherm has that connection right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question. You know, when I started with engineering started for me with a love of math and science right, which I think a lot of engineers come to it with. You know just experiences in high school with you know just experiences in high school being encouraged to take more and more advanced coursework. And then, you know, I went to a very small high school, and so I went to Penn State because I was looking for something very different 40,000 undergrad students. And there I started out in aerospace engineering because I had this dream of you know, maybe being on a spaceship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we grew up in the space shuttle generation, right and so so that was a dream for sure.
Speaker 2:And and then I remember in year one meeting some people and talking about because you're young and you don't really understand career movement or what you're picking- or even what's available.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:All I had was eye on one thing and really learning that, okay, that's a tough path and you can get there multiple ways, but for me, going into mechanical was a way to really hold on to that fluid dynamics and thermal dynamics, which I really love, but also not be pigeonholed by it.
Speaker 2:So mechanical engineering for me is one of the broadest disciplines so you can really go anywhere with it, and so that was the reason for mechanical. And then, yeah, you know, I think you're right, I think everyone wants to change the world and leave it for the better, and have a strong impact and you know, for me, coming out of school, it was like, hey, I've got student loans. What I really care about right now is a paycheck, so I need to eat, which?
Speaker 1:is valid Right.
Speaker 2:And so it was getting into that and actually it was. You know, serendipity has played a role so much in my life and I think everyone and I think people have to be humble in the fact that, yeah, hard work does get you somewhere but you rely on a little bit of luck and goodwill and serendipity. And the college professor I met in an undergraduate course I just happened to take and really love and striking it up with him, and then I ended up working in his lab and that led me to Hypertherm.
Speaker 2:And these events, you put yourself in the right position, but you stand on other shoulders and that's why you give it back right and you help others get there. But getting to Hypertherm and meeting the people there and we've always had people often talk about a triple bottom line impact around hey, it's not just about driving profits, it's also the people that you're working with and the communities that you're serving, and and then the planet Right that we all have to share and enjoy and and for us and this is what really resonated with me and felt about hey, I can make a huge impact in a small company and really have a you know and and also be maybe a great example for other companies to take and by small companies, small number of employees, huge footprint.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Today we're about 2,000 employees and there are 92 countries and we're all over the globe, a lot of offices. So, yeah, it was a small company but a lot of international impact and you could really feel like I had a direct connection between what I was working on one day and then visiting-.
Speaker 1:It wasn't abstract Visiting Hyundai.
Speaker 2:Heavy Industries in Korea, which is the world's largest shipyard. They have 40,000 employees and they launch a ship a day.
Speaker 1:Sorry, a ship a week, ship a week, and here it takes like five years to build one Something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we're improving.
Speaker 1:but we're trying to get better.
Speaker 2:But so you could see a direct connection between the work you did. But then, also that broader connection of of you know, really building something great for people as well.
Speaker 1:And then, in terms of like, when you got into the company you talked about, you had sort of a mentorship through your college. You know, and I've always harped on how important mentorship is, and sometimes you don't even know you're being mentored until after you've been mentored and you're like, wow, that was a lot more useful than I thought. When you got into Hypertherm, I feel like you kind of had that same connection, absolutely Right, because you valued that, that serendipity that you called it. Now do you find that you were looking for that in the workplace as well? And they have it?
Speaker 2:for you. Yeah, I'd love to say I was. I was, you know, intentional about it, but I was young and didn't really know, and so I was.
Speaker 2:I was lucky, honestly, and and I think that's you know for people listening, especially people maybe going into college and thinking about a career in engineering or anything in the skilled industry yeah, Just be open to it is what I would say is people love you know, if you're asking someone to share their knowledge, you're asking them to tell them about themselves, and people love to do that Right. And people love to do that right they do. People give you more of their time than you even would expect that they would, and I've been blessed with that throughout my career and certainly early on, and that happened to me in college without even looking for it, and then, joining Hypertherm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of it came from my direct bosses just being willing to spend so much time helping me and driving, and I think a lot of it too is just not only being open to that but also being willing to.
Speaker 2:You know, work really darn hard to make an impact and say hey, I want to do amazing work for you and I really want to grind this out and I want to do a strong things and I want to be forward leaning and the best way to get ahead is to do an amazing job the job that you're in Right. And so if you show that sort of forward leaning and then and then ask, also ask for help, that that's a powerful combination and really helps.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like that uh, dress for the job, you want kind of attitude, right yeah, but don't get too far ahead. Right Cause I think people skip steps.
Speaker 2:People often stumble when they're trying to do the next job before they've nailed their first. And doesn't mean don't be ambitious and don't try and be aggressive, but also, you know, be patient. People are going to seek you out, they're going to know the ones that are having an impact and then you're going to get invited onto the right projects and the right stuff.
Speaker 1:I say that to lots of young people. I haven't applied for a job in 20 years. You just work hard, do really well and people find, and then you just don't say no to opportunity, right, Like if the opportunity knocks. Don't sit on that too long because it'll move on.
Speaker 2:And you can keep your head up a little bit and say you know, and you know where the action is in the company and you know the big projects that are getting the attention. Like ooh, I want to be over there.
Speaker 3:Try and get over there. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:How do I help them out?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's part of what you need to do Now. What's been some of the biggest changes, like, in 26 years? You see a lot right, and there's got to be significant changes in the organization. Like you said, the underlying motto belief pillars are kind of the same since then, but there's got to be things that have shifted, ebbed and flowed throughout your career.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. So you know, when I joined and we're a're a, uh, you know, um a company that was founded by an entrepreneur in 1968 in a two car garage. We've got a picture of the garage on the wall. You know it's a standard story. Uh, dick couch, um, and you know, you know, when I joined he was still very, very involved in the company. It was CEO and president and leading the organization and heavily involved.
Speaker 2:He's an engineer uh as well and so very involved on the r&d side I also got to spend quite a bit of time, uh, with him and which is cool not too many people get to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that time with the ceo absolutely that kind of access is amazing and just you know, and I think him and his wife, barbara, who was also involved in the organization, just had really enlightened, enlightened approach to leadership and to what they were trying to do and accomplish. And so when I joined, yes, a little over 300 people, very small, but you knew everyone's name, definitely a family feel to it. But there were a couple core principles that were there from the start, always and that were a part of ownership philosophy core principles that were there from the start, always and that were a part of ownership philosophy. Now, us becoming employee-owned came later, but at the start there was always a couple of things and one was that went hand in hand full participation in continuous improvement.
Speaker 2:Everybody was really trying to be all in really full trust for the individual, no time clocks. Full trust for the individual, no time clocks. No one's punching in and out. We believe in trusting and in general that's paid well for us over the years. And the two things that also go with it, which are a part of our total rewards, included profit sharing. So we pay annual profit sharing to every associate at the same percentage of their salary every year, and from the first year that they turned a profit in the seventies and for Dick that was just natural, is that? Hey, you know we were making profits.
Speaker 1:We're working together on it. Why wouldn't you?
Speaker 2:share that with the people that helped earn it. And then no layoff philosophy. So we don't consider people as any other asset on the balance sheet. So when and we will not lay people off protect short-term profits.
Speaker 1:It's just not the way we believe and we don't think it honestly Does that hold back your growth, sometimes when you're like let's not overextend, because layoffs are usually a byproduct of overextension, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's definitely waves.
Speaker 2:I'd say we've missed and we're conservative and long-term in nature but, um, you know, I think, uh, for us it's, it's a, it's steady progress. And we've, you know, when we benchmark ourselves against other companies in industry, our growth rates hold up, and so we feel good about that. And it's just, you know, I think, about 2008 and nine is is a great example. So, you know, through the mid 2000s, pretty consistent growth, very strong growth, and then you had that big correction and I had been there for a long time, and so people just assumed things like a no-layoff philosophy. Oh, that's just baked in. But then you realize there's a lot of new people around who have been through layoffs.
Speaker 3:And they're not they're not as comfortable and they don't believe you until it happens.
Speaker 2:So 2009 hit and we saw 50% revenue drop quarter over quarter. And we had maybe 100 plus more production associates than we needed for what we needed. But 2009 was one of my favorite years at the company and there's a couple of reasons for that and one we all pulled together we had people mowing lawns, painting pulled a lot of that work inside Just community right, Just rallying together.
Speaker 2:We spent more in R&D that year than we did the year before, and we could do that, because the balance to not being able to maybe overextend and maybe miss a bit of a growth curve is that we were retrenching when 2010 happened. We had all of our trained workforce, we had brand new products ready to go, we had everyone 100% behind the mission, and so we killed it coming out of that.
Speaker 1:Well, we've seen that mistake be done during COVID with the airlines, yeah, where they just laid everybody off because they were not working, but then when you start back up, all those people you laid off got other jobs yeah, they're not coming back. They're not coming back. Now you've got to hire a third of your workforce with no experience, right, and that's a tough curve, yeah. So we just think we think it's a.
Speaker 2:You know it feels good to do, but it isn't fully altruistic, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's protectionism.
Speaker 2:We're long-term capitalists, right, and so we think these things go hand in hand, in that people, if they don't have to look over their shoulders when and if you're working in industry, right? And it's a cyclical economy, and so there's going to be good times and there's going to be bad times and you want everyone given their full effort the whole way through and you don't get that if they're afraid of losing their jobs awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, this is a good time to take the break here for our commercials. We'll be back from the right away here with aaron brandt from hypertherm and thank you to the sponsors. Make sure you listen and we'll be right back after this message. Looking for for top quality welding machines and accessories, look no further than CannaWeld. Based in Vaughan, ontario, cannaweld designs, assembles and tests premium welding machines right here in Canada. Our products are CSA certified and Ontario made approved, reflecting our unwavering commitment to excellence.
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Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, I'll be Evan Smith. Our current CEO is retiring at the end of the year and I'll be moving into the CEO seat in January.
Speaker 1:So let's talk a little bit about your skill set, because I'm curious, right Because it's not seen that often where someone can start at a junior position and end up kind of at the top right During that journey and I'm drawing from my life experience there's a lot of skills you got to pick up that they're not from college they're not from you know no one's coming to necessarily sit you down, say you need to learn these things to move up.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of like mentorship or looking about what's going on in your corporate culture for yourself. How's that journey like? What skills have you had to learn from a mechanical engineer to becoming corporate, where now it's you know having to do worry about P&Ls? And projections and budgets. How's that curve been for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. You know, what's been good is that I've been in roles where I could always ask, like the third and fourth question, that are sort of related to what I'm doing, but not completely around. Well, what does that really do to the profit and loss? Why are we worried about inventory levels and what does that really mean? But you know the skill sets of math, science, you know. For me then, mixed with you know, just a love of people and I'm an introvert actually.
Speaker 1:So you know for me, you know having to be out that just means, you love good people. Well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know, just you need the recharge time, but just you know the leadership skills were the first to come to really build upon and really understanding that it isn't about your success but really inspiring the success of others. And that's sort of my general MO as a leader is servant leadership.
Speaker 2:So just how do I enable great teams to do great work and how can I make that happen and hopefully show some of the great ways to get there, but then also be supportive and encouraging and empowering as well.
Speaker 2:And so I'm not a micromanager, you know, don't want to do that. That sounds really exhausting and tiring, honestly. So picking up the leadership skills early was important and then over time, you know, as I was sitting on a steering team, you know the way we're organized. We're a matrix organization and we've got regional teams which are sales, service, logistics and functional teams like HR. But our business units, which are kind of our primary axis, are built to have engineering, operations and marketing all co-located, focused on a customer segment, because we think having great products is a full team sport, not an engineering job, is a full team sport, not an engineering job. So I was already surrounded with marketing, with finance, with operations and just loving it all and learning just as much as I could. And I did have to round out with a little bit of coursework some finance courses, some marketing courses, and there's so much great exec ed out there now.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can really do that.
Speaker 2:Even not just going to a business school, but just picking it up online.
Speaker 1:Well, even through wonderful associations that offer leadership. Yeah, I can imagine CWB is a great one to look up to and a website on the banner behind me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was rounding that stuff out for sure, and then a lot of it, especially moving in the general manager role and being in the work and on the work. So if someone wants to get into more senior leadership, if you can get connected to the P&L in your organization and be in that and be part of the responsibility of making that happen and kind of understand the connection with that, that what you do today might affect that team tomorrow?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that revenue is great but, you don't live off revenue, you live off profits and cash. And that journey from the sales but revenue, you know you don't live off revenue, you live off profits and cash. Yeah, and that journey from the sales you make to turning it into profit, to then turning into cash is one that has a lot of chain steps that all have to work.
Speaker 2:And so that was a lot of the skill set. You know I had the math aptitude for it, but you know really and I'm not a finance expert, which is why we have a fantastic CFO but it's good to be able to speak the language and know it as an operator, and you're trying to build a business and then you're learning just enough of what it takes to have the team do great work.
Speaker 1:Well, I know that's a gap that in the welding world we have to confront often is the gap between language of, say, like the welder to the fabricator, fabricator to the engineer, engineer to the planner, planner to the buyer, and everyone kind of just talks to the level above and below. You get one step too far and it's a different language. Right, and that makes business hard. Right it does, because you want everyone to kind of be able to understand, at least on some level, what the decisions are happening for, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if people at any level in the org don't know what their decisions and how they impact the broader company, then it's really opaque to them right to be about sort of making it as transparent as possible to say, hey, this is a reason we're being so aggressive on inventory controls here and why we're trying to adjust in time, and why we're trying to and why it's so important these metrics and driving.
Speaker 2:And this is what it enables for us in terms of cash strength and that lets us invest when we see an opportunity and go after it. And then people start making the connections and you can't spend enough time having those conversations, because if someone feels that, yeah, I'm an assembler and I'm just doing my job and day and I'm working in the third cell of this line and that's all I do, and we don't want that, we want people coming in with their brains fully on and engaged and not turning them off when they come in the door.
Speaker 2:Not only do they do better work in what they're doing, but they're the ones the majority of what we find to either improve automation or improve productivity are coming from the frontline problem solvers. And it's amazing what they do. Some of my favorite parts of the day are when you're doing a walk around and we've got these things called CIA boards, continuous improvement activity boards, and frontline associate will be, you know, up there talking about the metrics, talking about the impact, and you just see that, you know, just see the passion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that connection it's so good and even when we you know, we acquired OMAX WaterJets in 2019 and bringing them into the family, and then some of these same things we're introducing there, that's another learning curve, right yeah?
Speaker 2:That was our largest acquisition to date and they're headquartered in Kent, washington, just south of Seattle, and it's a very similar culture to us. Obviously, we look at culture very closely when we're looking at acquisitions and founder-led John Chung and John Olson founded OMAX and just a great group of people and and so they. You know, it's just been so fun watching us bring some learnings to them, but also so much learning that they brought to us as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, one of the things that I have always known about hypertherm, since the beginning of my career in welding, is their dedication to being involved in kind of halo projects, you know, supporting programs for schools, high schools, barking Arcs, or what was the program where you give away hyperthermoplasmas for schools. That was around for years. I think it still is.
Speaker 1:I think it is. Yes, yeah, I get an email. You know you're involved in a lot of community programs, a lot of associations, you're at conferences. There's a real investment in the brand, like a strong investment in the brand. Yeah, and I was just talking this morning at a presentation and you know some people say that your investment on marketing should be up to 30% of your total revenue, which I think is wild to think of a number like that. Yeah, that might be an extreme, but it is important to establish a brand, and a brand that's not necessarily tied to just the function of your product that's right A brand that's tied to also your function within society, and I think that Hypertherm works on that and is actively involved in doing things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and we talked a little bit earlier about community impact and how critical that is, because we're all members of a community. Communities give businesses license to operate and you know that's something we. You know our founder learned early on was the first time he went to apply for a permit to expand the building realized I've never talked to anyone in this town about this before.
Speaker 2:And so it's going to be a different reception than you know. You're out there in the community, you're getting involved. So all of you know a lot of our associates. Uh, well, all of them get a community service time, uh, paid time off to go volunteer in whatever uh volunteer activity.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be in a steel working world.
Speaker 2:No it can be, uh be part of your kids. Uh, you know, uh a trip to a museum, right?
Speaker 1:Selling cookies, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Go coach athletics team. And you know that's good, you know it makes our associates feel super energized and engaged it gets our name out there in the community.
Speaker 2:And you know, we know, that if we give back to the community, the community give back to us. Like I said, these things are all circular. Right, you do these good things and then good things happen, and so a lot of brand build as well, you know. As you know, authenticity is so important, right, you can't. You can do all you want to. You can market a message all you want, but if people don't associate that with your brand, they're not, they're not going to believe it, they're not going to reject it, so it's got to be coming from a real place and for a real purpose.
Speaker 2:And so for this, for us, is just a natural, normal, right way to do business is to be involved in the community and then giving back to colleges and universities. I mean a lot of us draw that connection to. Yeah, if you have people using your equipment in colleges, then they'll—.
Speaker 1:You're branded, that's what they think of, for sure, and that's important Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, we know that a good, healthy, strong North American economy— they need the equipment. You need the equipment, and then you need the people to be joining it. And then you need people to be Manufacturing. Over the years has not had the best branding right, you know the 4Ds dirty, dark, dangerous, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, Dull.
Speaker 2:And those of us who have been in it for decades now?
Speaker 3:No, it's awesome, it is awesome, or you know, north American manufacturing.
Speaker 2:You know hearing it may be coming back. It never left. Yeah, and so the more you can inspire people to get into it. It just brings the whole ecosystem up and makes us all better yeah.
Speaker 1:Now what about your support? Like you got Ray Ripple. You got all these amazing people that you help support with their interactions out in society. Is that kind of what? What does that fall under in the window of hypertherm?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's the. The collaboration with Ray is fantastic. It's just incredibly impressive what she does, she's, she's here at the show this week we're interviewing her, I think Wednesday, yeah, yeah. She's doing a really cool right now. Yeah, I mean, for us it's just a great way to reach more people.
Speaker 3:Youth Youth.
Speaker 2:And I think Ray's incredibly inspiring. First of all, so we're so proud to have our brand associated with her. Yeah, and just another great example of someone who's made a fantastic career and a place for herself in this industry and just is so inspired to give back and so to be associated with that is just fantastic. And then you can see the inspiration she gives to young people looking to join up, of any gender, but in particular, attracting more women into the which is sorely needed. Absolutely, you see it getting better every year.
Speaker 2:I mean you think about Fabtech 10, 15 years ago, but we've got more to go and it just makes us stronger the more people we get under the tent. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:You know when you're looking at the getting into the community piece. I remember teaching at the college and we got a hypertherm machine for the students to use from a sales rep, basically for free. He just came and dropped it off and said let the students use it. And you know, and he did, took the time to show the students how the consumables work and what they were called, and having the rep really be knowledgeable. And I'm in the middle of nowhere in Canada I live in Regina, saskatchewan, which is kind of out in the boonies and we had that support. Not a lot of companies take the time to have those support partners in key locations or even unkey locations.
Speaker 2:How important is it for Hypertherm to have that reach? Yeah, especially on the handheld product side. But in general, we've got over 3,000 distribution partners globally and that's our success right, is our partner success. And so it's not just the Hypertherm associates out in the field, and certainly in North America, we've got an incredible team of distribution sales managers and OEM sales managers, people that are working directly with end users on big projects, and that's the front face of Hypertherm.
Speaker 2:That's what makes us successful. And then certainly for partners, making sure we're selecting the best partners we can working with one, training them up, making them successful, and you learn early on that ultimately you can have the best product in the world. And if you don't have the full chain in place, from where you're building your product all the way to the end user and they're getting trained and supported with a great experience, it doesn't. You're building your product all the way to the end user and they're getting trained and supported with a great experience.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter how good your product is well, and you guys are doing a lot of new things all the time, I'd imagine not not everything works right like, yep, some products are awesome. I, I remember I still haven't tried the gouging curve tip. Yep, you know, I mean, when that came out I was like how does that even work? Cut Right, how do you make a plasma change direction without just blowing out the air.
Speaker 2:We can get technical if you like.
Speaker 1:But you know, like having those experimental products shows a commitment to R&D that you don't see from a lot of companies. You guys just came out with the one piece end right.
Speaker 1:Like the consumable switch out now, where it's just like a quick one-to-one. I mean that kind of threw me off. I hadn't seen that before. Immediately speculative, like hmm, is that better, is that worse? But obviously, you know, r&d went into this for sure, right? So as you look to, you know, as a leader and you're moving into, like the big leader, the big chair, right, how are you going to make sure that you keep that flavor of, I guess, uh, like exploration within the industry to keep looking for that new cool thing?
Speaker 2:that may or may not work, but you got to try yeah, and there's a couple it's so important, right, and there's a couple key principles that we that are sort of uh in, you know, internalized so much into our organization and aren't going to go anywhere. One is uh to is to always be fully centered in solving a customer problem right and they're there and how can you make it better for them? And it can always get better and it can always be made better.
Speaker 2:So just that hunger and appetite to obsolete yourself. Because, again, the industry is going to move, technology is going to change, it's changing rapidly right now and people are coming with new great ideas and new concepts, and so we want to be the ones to obsolete ourselves. And so, having that heavy commitment, we tend to invest about 7% 5% to 7% on average.
Speaker 2:It varies. We're pretty steady, so we tend to invest through the cycle either way in our R&D investment and so that's not going to change and it's still always going to be. We love tech, but it's always going to be grounded in trying to solve a customer problem. So how do we make this cut better? How do we improve the outcomes for the end user? How do we make this easier to install and service? I mean the sync systems that you mentioned, the cartridge, sort of the one-piece swap out. The number one reason people would get either poor life or just damage their parts or get a poor cut was putting the consumables together.
Speaker 2:And so that was one where it's really hard and was a challenge to say, okay, if we want to make it easier for them, and the ideal was it's just only one consumable and not eight how do you do that in a way that is cost-effective, that's actually lower.
Speaker 2:In most cases it lowers the operating cost to the end user makes it easier for them to do, obviously, and then ultimately have a lower environmental footprint as well, and so all of those metrics were stacked up against that, and it took quite a few years of R&D to figure that out and a lot of CapEx investment to do it as well, because it's a fully automated assembly line for that. But super proud of that and so as we look to the future.
Speaker 2:It's that type of renewal, reinvestment, pushing the technology forward. We're a multi-technology organization as well. Plasma and WaterJet today will continue to expand, making sure that, whatever the tech is that's involved in industrial cutting and really setting manufacturers up for success, we want to be in there and driving it forward.
Speaker 1:Well, that was going to be my next question. Omax was a big step. Right, you brought in a big mover, big tables, big equipment, heavy stuff. You know hypertherm previously I'd always thought of as the, the machine that you would attach to somebody else's system. That's right. Right, you would bring in the hypertherm to hook it up to the gantry of x, right and, and you'd have a system. Omax was your first kind of like. What we saw from the outside as a move into identifying that space for yourself. Now is there is there more growth in those sectors of just cutting? Is there going to be a day where it's going to be hypertherm welding? Is it going to be hypertherm? I don't know. Like there's things right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we look pretty, you know, as, in terms of what we consider. We look pretty expansively and you knowively, and we're an industrial cutting solutions company, right, and we're looking at total value chain and looking at up and down and saying, okay, where could we uniquely provide value that's differentiated, that's technology-based? I mean, we manufacture in the US predominantly. We're not going to go around the world seeking low-cost manufacturing to build our products, so we need to make sure that we've got differentiation and a reason to be there and not just be a me too.
Speaker 2:So for all, whether it's a different cutting technology or a different shaping technology along the value stream, for us it's more about okay, well, can we provide value there and could we drive it? So software that we provide works for many other providers other than just ourselves. In WaterJet, we had done an initial acquisition in 2014, I believe, of Accustream, which made WaterJet pumps and consumables and very much similar to the Plasma side, where there's more supply to machine tool builders and there we found it was great to bring that into the fold. But ultimately, for Waterjet, we found that the value we could bring was more around where the software and hardware were intersecting, and OMACS was a great brand and was also available, so it was a fantastic opportunity for us to step in there. But on the Plasma side, for example, there we're fully committed to our model that we have today, which is selling through partners, selling through distribution. It's just as a broad expansion, expansive reach of applications that Plasma serves, and that's not something that we'd ever want to do ourselves.
Speaker 2:So there we're stronger with partners Waterjet there's a lot of. We have a lot of partners on the Waterjet side as well, but we tend to sell the full integrated platform, which is the difference on the WaterJet side as well but we tend to sell the full integrated platform, which is the difference.
Speaker 2:So for the future, yeah, I mean there's a lot of things we're thinking about and considering both internally in terms of what we're investing in and I can assure you we're investing quite heavily, continue to in R&D to drive the tech forward. We see great growth potential for both Plasma and WaterJet in the future, and then a lot of new exciting applications. You'll see a lot of new robotic 3D applications in particular as well. That we're super excited about. And then, yeah, and then beyond that, we've got some things we're looking at.
Speaker 1:These are triggers on the street. We're looking at what we can do, absolutely. What about lasers? That's going to be the next question, because when you talk about the progression of cutting technologies, it's almost like everyone's got a plasma. If you don't have a plasma table now, at this point, are you even a business right Like, are you even?
Speaker 2:anything. It's a very mature market Right and then you get into the water jets.
Speaker 1:Well, you know now, this is a bigger investment. There's more work involved and laser's kind of coming in hard at all levels right. But it's almost seeing. I'm seeing laser as a lower price point of water jets in some regards.
Speaker 2:In some applications.
Speaker 1:absolutely Right, because you don't have a water pump, you don't have, you know, shots, you don't have all these other pieces that you got to include. I mean, there's also their issues, but are you? Going to. Is there a push into laser world for you guys?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we're absolutely looking at opportunities and figuring out again there, you know it's, it's. Every technology has its fit and and like. I said I started my career in laser, and so it's it's there in my brain.
Speaker 2:And I remember, you know, early on in early, one of my first customer visits was to a John Deere factory in Dubuque, Iowa, and we were installing some new plasma systems there. So this was back in 1999. And the operations manager at the time said hey, you know, this is great, we're putting this in there, but plasma is pretty mature and we're probably going to go all with laser. From this point forward and at the time, 1999, I just joined the company thinking oh, what industry did I just get in and I think, with everything, with every technology, it has a hype cycle.
Speaker 2:It goes through and then it settles in. And certainly areas where it's going to have rapid adoption and then the technologies find their place. Oxifuel still is an amazing footprint brought in the industry.
Speaker 2:So with plasma we're very focused. With laser in particular, there are segments where it's got very strong dominant strength and is the right technology for the job Thinner materials, very high volume. Obviously you can go thicker now with fiber laser tech Right and it's great to see the technology driving forward and we've actually seen that for some years now, asia in particular there was a lot of early adoption of fiber laser, and so we've seen the curve happen there and still have a fantastic footprint in plasma to this day.
Speaker 2:Similarly with WaterJet. There are certain applications where WaterJet is just the right tool for the job.
Speaker 1:It is, yeah, and there's still lots of dangers with laser that haven't been quite figured out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just the right tool for the job it is. Yeah, and there's still lots of dangers with laser that haven't been quite figured out. Yeah, and I think there's a danger, I think with fiber laser, with eye safety, where, if you have to worry about enclosures and worry about protection as well, I think there are cases where it's multi-material or it's material that's not perfect, so not the same size. If you have like a casting or an extrusion, like an I-beam, you can run into trouble. Rusty plates if you're in a shipyard, for example, laser will struggle with that. But at the same time, and also with laser, we talked about operating costs, high-pressure nitrogen. You go through quite a bit of it. I think the gas distributors are happy in those situations, but it does add to the operating costs.
Speaker 2:So, that being said, there's absolutely some shift happening in industry right now and quite a bit of fiber laser adoption, and we see that you said the hype cycle.
Speaker 1:It's hype right now.
Speaker 2:Laser's a hype word right now and if you've got a full factory and we see this with a lot of our strategic end users where they've got a full factory of a lot of great plasma cutting tables. Their next purchase is likely going to be a fiber laser table and we've seen that cycle play out and then usually the purchase after that is a plasma. So we're happy. Definitely, we're always positioned to figure out where we can grow and continue to drive forward. We see lots of room, like I said, on XY tables for plasma, but a lot more robotic and 3D applications where plasma actually is. We're actually converting laser to plasma in those applications.
Speaker 2:Aluminum castings is a fantastic example of that, where plasma doesn't care if the geometry is not too close or your standoff heights are changing. It doesn't mind if the thickness is changing rapidly, it doesn't mind if the part's a little bit different from one to the other, and highly reflective materials like aluminum, which a lot of these are made out of it does a great job. So that's an example of an application where you see the technology shifting in a different direction.
Speaker 1:Now you brought up the Asian markets. We're here at Fabtech where, as you've seen, over the years of Fabtech, the floor has changed considerably.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see some familiar faces from Shanghai.
Speaker 1:Essentios, yeah right. So you know how does a sort of you know a community-involved holistic company that treasures its employees and has these wonderful plans, compete in the cutthroat plasma world, because there is competition from everywhere now all kinds right. And you know how do you stay on top of that, stay in front of it or navigate within it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not easy, but there's a couple of things, I think that where we try to position ourselves and offer a differentiation to customers and it's never going to be price right and you just have to realize that if it gets cutthroat and even cutthroat with US suppliers, there's a place that you just can't go. So you have to have a differentiated product as much as you can.
Speaker 2:And that's why the heavy R&D investment to continue to push it forward. So if you want to have a premium brand position, you better be offering a great value proposition. And I think that's the other important part, especially on the Plasma side, but definitely on the OMAX WaterJet side as well is that you've got a great customer experience you're selling.
Speaker 2:So, whether that's with our fantastic partners on the Plasma side- or more directly with the OMAX products, because when you buy a piece of capital equipment, you're buying a relationship with the supplier. You're not buying a product. You're buying a relationship with the supplier. You're not buying a product, you're buying a relationship, because, as you know, these things they require work they require maintenance. They require support, they require consumables. They're going to. Things are going to break. We don't want them to. We want it to be as reliable as possible, but there's always something.
Speaker 2:It's industry and you need someone that you know is going to be there and trust to support, and that's what we offer. And that's how we're going to continue to stake our position. I think also people want to know that they're having a broader impact as part of US, Canadian, Mexican, broader North American manufacturing, that we are supporting our ecosystem and driving it.
Speaker 2:So I think there's that bias in the Americas to want to buy from American and that's actually true anywhere in the world, everyone would love to buy local, and that's great, and so if we can buy something that's price competitive, has a great value proposition and we feel like the total cost of ownership of what we offer across all of our products is going to be lower than what you can get, even if the it may be if the upfront list price is a little higher because you're going to get lower operating costs. But when it, when something goes wrong, we're going to be there and I think that's what we can definitely stand behind.
Speaker 1:And then for the last couple of questions, we're getting to the end of the interview. You know for yourself, into the roles you're moving, into what you've stepped up through, you know what would you be able to give a fresh hypertherm employee tomorrow? You know, first day on the job. You know aaron's coming down, all right, how's it going? And he says, how do I get in your chair? You said, you know, like you asked those questions, right, and they're asking you these questions now, what do you say to them?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm smiling because I did just get asked this question so when we have? New hires join us. We do like a three-day cultural immersion and they get to meet all the senior management team and do a Q&A with us and ask questions, and so often it is that question it's hey, I see you've navigated this. How did you do that? How can I do that?
Speaker 2:You know I start with, you know, first and foremost, my role and the executive team's role, every leader's role at Hypertherm and every associate's role is to make our company as strong as we can and really drive it forward, because growth creates opportunity and growth isn't a number or I'm not trying to put an award on the wall or brag about a quarterly revenue figure. I don't care about that. I care about growth because it creates dynamic environment that's exciting to be in.
Speaker 1:It's engaging to be in New opportunities.
Speaker 2:And it creates opportunity and movement, and so, for when someone's talking to me, I say hey, first and foremost, we're going to do everything we can to keep this organization strong and healthy. So you do. I want you to stay, I want you to have the same opportunities I did, and I want one of you I'm talking to you right now to be taking over from either me or my successor you know, in whatever order that comes, and you know the way you do.
Speaker 2:That is you know again, just work so hard in the role that you're in Really show that you're committed, but always be ready to learn, contribute, to ask questions, to be engaged and accept that you don't know everything.
Speaker 2:Be willing to take a lateral move, you know, if your way to learn as much about the total organization as you possibly can, and don't be afraid to ask questions and seek people out, including myself. We don't have any offices in our buildings. It's all open office. I don't have an office. I just imagine people walking around in a field, but no, yeah, it's not quite that when, when our founder built the buildings because our main manufacturing in the northeast is purpose-built um, with manufacturing and offices always co-located and he didn't even want to have walls turns out you have to have walls for safety um, but that whole idea of there's no separation between anyone, there's no
Speaker 2:you know as little hierarchy as possible and that creates access, and and so it's creating growth, inspiring people and getting them engaged in the culture and then giving access and transparency so they know they can figure it out.
Speaker 1:Awesome, yeah. Last question what's the goal for Fabtech? You know you came here. You get the teams together. Everyone has their huddles. For the last month talking about Fabtech, you got the boots, you got the people. What are you looking to come out of this show in Orlando with? Is there a special product being unveiled or is there something moving, or what was the goal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we have a bunch of new products this year, as we usually do the big ones. We've got two new plasma products on display. The XPR 460 is the new flagship the highest level of oxygen cutting that we've ever offered. It cuts thicker and faster. I worked on an original 400-amp system like two generations ago. This makes me look like I had no idea what I was doing. So it's so fantastic to see and it's that obsoleting ourselves, right. Yeah, the PowerMax 45 Sync is the highest-selling plasma unit in the industry. Powermax 45 Sync is the highest selling plasma unit in the industry PowerMax 45, 45, xp and now the Sync, and so that's a generation and the Sync seems to be hitting it off.
Speaker 1:It is I mean, the ease of use is something that I hear about lots.
Speaker 2:I think for many once they've tried it, then they're blown away and I think when people get over there, it's a change right. And people look at it and you know there's some questions around. Okay, is this really in my best interest and, you know, is this really going to be helpful for me? And I think those that have tried it realize, hey, these things last a lot longer, getting more life so much easier to use and so, that's how we knew we had a winner was when we did beta field trials with operators.
Speaker 1:And they're like this is mine now. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We've got some great stuff on the Watershed side as well. Our OptiMax, which is the high-end flagship there, has a couple new features and offerings. There We've got like a dual carriage capability, some new software features that are on display, and so, yeah, I mean we've got the lead goals and the sales goals and all of those things but I think it's really just getting people exposed to the brand new products, understanding that what we're coming with.
Speaker 2:we're continuing to drive the state of the art of technology for both plasma and water jet forward and we're trying to be as much of a supporting, engaging and driving force in the industry as we can. So if we deliver that message, then we've had a successful show.
Speaker 2:So how do the listeners find out about their local hypotherm yeah, so you can go to uh, hyperthermcom is a great, is a great way, and uh, and you'll find out, you know, or you know if you've got a local distributor, uh nearby I guess, welding distributor, or many of our oems uh that that sell uh cutting products.
Speaker 2:If you're looking for a robotic machine or an XY cutting table, you'll find us online all over the place. But hyperthermcom is a great starting place and then you'll click on your region and then you'll get access to the partner network and all the information about our products Awesome, well, thank you so much, aaron.
Speaker 1:This has been really insightful.
Speaker 2:Max, this was a blast.
Speaker 1:I'm waiting to get hired at Hypertherm, but no one's offered me a job yet. But I think you're vacating a position soon, so we'll see, we'll talk, but yeah, it's fantastic. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you and for the people following along online and on the podcast. We're doing a number of shows this week, so make sure you catch all the Fabtech specials We've. Hopefully my voice will hold up, as you know every Fabtech by the last podcast. I'm barely understandable. I'm holding on slow but not bad today. But keep downloading, sharing and commenting and make sure you send us fan mail on the new feature on our Buzzsprout feed. Thank you and I'll see you at the next episode.
Speaker 3:We hope you enjoy the show you've been listening to the cwb association welding podcast with max. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced by the CWB Group and presented by Max Horn, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.