The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Special Episode – Fabtech Podcaster’s Forum 2024
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend Fabtech in Orlando, Florida this year. We are bringing you special episodes recorded in person to keep our members on top of what’s new and exciting in the steel and welding industry.
Buckle up as we dive into another edition of the Fabtech Podcaster's Forum with Jason Becker from Arc Junkies Podcast, Kevin Johnson from Welding Business Owner Podcast, and Frank Vargas from Torch Tales Podcast. The hot topic this year is starting your own business and exploring business growth strategies within the welding and fabrication industries. This candid conversation offers a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone considering or currently navigating the entrepreneurial landscape in this field.
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Fabtech is North America’s largest metal forming, fabricating, welding, and finishing event! Schedule the next event in your calendar: September 8-11th, 2025 in Chicago, IL. https://www.fabtechexpo.com/
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
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Speaker 3:All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our annual cross pod. Joining us this year for the first time is Frank Vargas with Uniweld. We're bringing him into the fold. I'll let everybody else introduce themselves.
Speaker 4:I'm Kevin with JMW Fabrication and the Welding Business Owners Podcast. Great to be back here, guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you Awesome. I'm Max Ron from the CWB Association Podcast and this is always a good time. Sorry for the voice. This is my ninth speaking session this week.
Speaker 5:That sounds like an excuse, Max.
Speaker 2:But anyway.
Speaker 5:I'm Frank Vargas with New World Products. I also have a Torch Tales Podcast as well, and just grateful to be here with you guys and obviously Jason Be podcast as well, and, uh, just grateful to be here with you guys.
Speaker 3:And obviously jason becker with ark junkies podcast. Once again, it's good to be back. Every year it's a family reunion, we always say that, but uh, it's been a great week catching up with you guys yeah, um I know we've been to a lot of the similar events. You guys actually get to see the show at all this year max uh, 45 minutes okay that's plenty. That's plenty. You can take this entire show in 45 minutes.
Speaker 1:Uh, I got 45 minutes to do a little bit of walking. I didn't see anything on the south side, a little bit of welding. Checked in on the boys at the booth, stopped in and saw the friends and did a little bit of touring. But hopefully after here I'll get to do a little bit.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I worked at the bathroom a few times so I kind of saw whatever was between the bathroom and the booth. Yeah, so, yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 3:Kevin, you always try to shy away from commitments during these things, so you can actually go see the show floor yeah yeah, it worked out again this year it did.
Speaker 4:It was really great. I got to see the welding side and for this being my I believe it's my fifth Fabtech. You know most of the stuff is kind of the same, changes a little bit and the stuff that you've looked at other years. It's kind of cool to see how things evolve and get better and cheaper throughout the years. So I went over to the South Building yesterday. There's not much over there for us, so we kind of just hung out here today and here we are ready to fly out in about an hour and a half.
Speaker 1:You got the hard. Stop right the hard stop.
Speaker 5:So where do you call home?
Speaker 4:Pennsylvania. Oh cool, An hour north of.
Speaker 5:Philadelphia Short flight. Yeah, all right, cool, no. So I think I agree with you Definitely. This is probably my 10th Fabtechs before take First time in Orlando. As we all know, right Because of a lot of right.
Speaker 3:Jason's, of course, is super happy because he's going home every single night, are you actually? No, I'm staying at the resident center next door. I forgot.
Speaker 5:He has that AWS money, so yeah.
Speaker 3:He does not, I assure you, he does not.
Speaker 5:He had to fight for that one. But it's so good, but it's definitely. Yeah, I call Fort Lauderdale home as well, so for me it was just like ooh, first time I'll take it. So are you driving home every night?
Speaker 2:You go home.
Speaker 5:It's a three-and that's not what he asked. Yeah, you're right. No, Yep.
Speaker 3:The only reason I decided to stay here was because all the after hours events and then, how early Fabtech starts. So I got to bed at 4 o'clock last night and then got up at 8 o'clock this morning to be over at the AWS booth at 930. I got an hour drive home so it just made sense to stay over here. Just because of all the you. You never know what time you're going home.
Speaker 3:But you know, and then you got obligations in the morning. This year I tried to stay back with a lot of the obligations.
Speaker 1:I remember chicago oh, man, I was.
Speaker 3:I think I did seven podcasts that week down there in the dungeon, yeah, and then two, two or three up on the show floor. Plus we did a couple of panel discussions, a couple stoppings yeah all. So I didn't get to see any of the show. Just what was between point A and B? It's like, hey, you know.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'll see you later. See you tomorrow.
Speaker 3:This year I tried to taper back on some of that. And it was still. I still didn't give myself enough time.
Speaker 1:Well, to be honest, talking to you like six months ago, you were like I'm going to take a super chill I'm. We'll have lots of time to hang out and stuff. You didn't seem any less busy.
Speaker 3:I know I need to dial it back even further next time, oh really yeah, we'll see he says that every single time I say that every time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, and what about you, frank, like here, did you do any Torch Tale stuff? Did you do any?
Speaker 5:podcast stuff. So actually I did too, you know for me than you guys, because I have a booth that I actually have to work and man the whole show. So it's usually either very early in the morning or late, and we know what happens after the show.
Speaker 4:The best content. Yeah right, All my work happens from like 6 pm to like 3 am.
Speaker 5:The rated R version, so that's the one that just stays in my phone and it doesn't go anywhere else. But no, it's been great, but tomorrow I'm doing another one and then I think I'm staying in Orlando for another week or so. So I have some things lined up.
Speaker 3:Have you seen Frankie's setup?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I haven't been on his podcast yet.
Speaker 3:Oh, I wasn't trying to bring up any bad blood. No, he has this Pelican case that's like this big and everything's just in there. It's an entire freaking studio. He came over to Underground Metalworks to set something up. I was like hey, man set up over here. He opens the box. I thought he was going to put a little recorder on the table. No, he's got everything. He's got a full light production studio inside of this box. I don't know how he does it.
Speaker 1:It's like you know old money. It's like you know old money. Really, it's an entire studio.
Speaker 3:It's like the cartoons where you hit the button and everything starts to unfold and the next thing you know it's like a McMansion he's got all that in this little box.
Speaker 5:That's awesome. You know what it is. I travel like three weeks out of the month. So for me, if I had to travel with everything else you have, Max there's no way I would do what I do. There's not a chance. So for me it's way too much. I'm already on the road too much. I'm like I need to go lighter and lighter. So a few thousand dollar laters, you know just like, oh, that works.
Speaker 3:That's going to be the one pay for the weight one way or the other.
Speaker 5:Yeah, production or increases I know, I know, but you know, so far, so far, I think I've found the. The magic trick Does.
Speaker 1:Uniwell support your podcast, or is it two separate?
Speaker 5:things. So they know what I do and they don't have a say, Well, or is there a?
Speaker 3:say they got a little bit more pull than you know, yeah, so let me just kind of rephrase that again.
Speaker 5:So no, they know what I do and they're really cool about the whole thing. So as long as they know that I'm also doing what I need to do for them, they're happy and they don't mind. They also know that organically just gives them recognition. People recognize me more. Therefore, I can have those conversations open the door here and there. So no, they're cool and I'm grateful for that. What about you, kevin?
Speaker 1:You know, you got your business your podcast. You don't have a booth here, though You're here walking the show. You're not doing podcasts here, though.
Speaker 4:No, my podcast actually started out from the beat-ups at Fabtech, because I felt like I didn't have enough time to talk to everybody here and I wanted to just hop on Zoom calls and hit record and I did, and we put it out there and it's grown since then and I don't have any products to sell. I was selling a little bit of advertising to Lincoln, but then they stepped up and gave us everything we wanted for the Fabricator Olympics. I kind of feel bad asking them for hey do you want to come?
Speaker 4:sponsor the podcast some more. So no, you guys are talking about all this equipment. I'm still probably like like sub 400 bucks in mine, he's doing it right, yeah, right. I have like I have a hundred hour microphone. I've got my headset. I put these on. These things are nice.
Speaker 3:I'm still working like the $30.
Speaker 4:Amazon ones. I got like four years ago and plug it into my computer and that's it. I need internet and I just go Trust me.
Speaker 3:You're the smart one. I broke a pair of these the other day I went to put them on and I was like, why is this loose? I took it off and it just fell off. I almost had a heart attack.
Speaker 1:This is awful.
Speaker 3:It's not a part that I can fix.
Speaker 1:Just weld it, man.
Speaker 3:If I had somebody with a 3D printer, I could probably save them.
Speaker 4:I'll send it to you.
Speaker 3:They're still in the trash at the house.
Speaker 4:I'll pull them out, I'll show you the business.
Speaker 3:Right there.
Speaker 4:Tell me the broken one, I'll model up and print it out for you. Oh sweet.
Speaker 3:He just wants to play with his toy.
Speaker 4:I'm just sending you an invoice of about $105.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know right. Well, it would actually be, worth it, money well spent.
Speaker 5:I'm going to send you a few things too. I'm going to go through my trash as well.
Speaker 1:We don't want what's in your trash.
Speaker 5:He never asks. He never asks, yep.
Speaker 3:Yep, but I I think we're supposed to talk about, because the boss over there said the topic of the discussion was going to be all about running, owning and starting a business Right, which is something all of us have done at one point or another, or are currently doing, so let's kick it off with that. Like Kevin, I mean, you run a couple different businesses. First of all, what prompted you to start your business, the JMW Fabricate? What?
Speaker 4:prompted me was I was doing side work for a long time and I was working at, actually, a scrapyard doing the mechanical work and the welding there and we started to get slow and my boss said you know what? I know you're doing your side thing. It's kind of what you want to do. How can I help you? Go out on your own and it was built.
Speaker 2:No, this was another guy and um from there.
Speaker 4:I said you know what, rent me a bay in one of your shops till I get my shop built. Because I had just went to the bank and got alone to build my pole barn. And at that time I'm like do not lay me off, don't fire me. I don't have the cash, I'm approved, it's coming. I don't have the cash yet, so built my, it's coming. I don't have the cash yet, so built my shop and kind of went from there. But I would totally do it all over again because really for me it's entrepreneurship is in me and you know, if somebody-.
Speaker 1:It's like a virus. It is it is.
Speaker 4:And you know I'm an entrepreneur in the welding space but I could really be in a lot of other mechanical spaces if I wanted to. But this is just where my love is. And if somebody was looking to start a business, you know, when you go into this venture you have to think about you might be good at what you do at welding and fabrication, but there is so much more to it and really, if the first step to starting a business is asking yourself, do you really want to do it? Do you know what you're getting into? Because everybody sees the money, everybody sees the stuff, everybody sees the time freedom that you have, which you really don't have.
Speaker 3:When does all that come?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was going to say what do you mean? Everyone sees the money Like where, when, how?
Speaker 4:I mean everybody shows that and that's what they want and if you do it right you can get that. But it is not easy and you have to really ask yourself if you are a good fabricator and good welder. There is a place for you in businesses, like a lot of times I joke with all my guys. I'm like I would rather just go hop on a mower and cut grass someday.
Speaker 4:You know like that sounds really appealing on those hard days and then in a week I'd be bored and I'd be back to it. But you know there's. You really have to ask yourself is this for me? Do I love the business side? You don't have to love it, you just have to not hate it, you just have to like.
Speaker 1:I really enjoy ignore you can't, you can't ignore, you cannot ignore if you ignore it.
Speaker 4:You're going to fail. You're you're gonna fail. So you have to ask yourself this is something I want to do and should I be doing this and do I have the experience? There's a lot of people who go out there, and some guys straight out of school. They see the money. They've been working at a place for two years and they're like I can do this. There's a lot of liability in what we do. You need to have experience. Like a lot of people. They're like oh, I'm coming out of wedding school, I want to start my own business. I'm like don't Go work for somebody, go learn on their dollar, go learn on their time. You get to leave and leave it all behind at 5, 6 o'clock at night. You know, get your 10,000 hours before you really go out there.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's definitely a good point. In my line of work, not only do I see so many businesses that start within a year or two, they're gone because they don't do the homework. They just see that flashy lifestyle and the flexibility of like, hey, I can close and go whenever I want to, and then they realize that they didn't do the homework on what's my competition?
Speaker 2:what's my purpose what do I want to?
Speaker 5:do, but then they'll just great. I just go nine to five, I don't have to work weekends anymore. And then they realize that they are responsible for every single little thing you know they don't think about insurance.
Speaker 5:they don't think about all these other things that just keep piling up and in my life. So I handle all of the us and canada as well, and sometimes I go visit one customer one time. A year later they're no longer there and then you talk to the owners and what happened? Now we're in the food or something else, because somebody else came in and put in the work, and definitely they just pay attention to all the little details that most people don't, when all you see is like, oh, max has a great business, I can copy that.
Speaker 5:But they don't know the 10,000 hours that you just talked about. I remember I opened my own business many years ago, like 20 years ago, and I was doing dry nuts and fruits and all these kind of things and all selling to the cruise ships, and I had a bunch of accounts and the one thing that I felt that it was because I didn't trust anyone. So it was like you know, I can do it all myself. I set up my whole kitchen, everything my house, stainless steel, you name it. I had everything going on, but I was working like 75 hours a week because I was never sleeping, I was always packing something or doing something and I didn't want anyone else involved.
Speaker 5:Like I got this, this is my baby, this dude don't even look at me, I'm done. That only lasted about eight months. I got so burned out. I was like this I don't want to touch this, I don't want to do this ever again. So I started working for other big companies, of course, and I still have my own business in dominican republic, something that I opened about four or five years ago, and talk about being difficult having a business when you are next door to the country yeah, now imagine when you have to satellite and run that business kind of trusting everyone.
Speaker 5:So that's the one thing I learned from my first time, you know, the first mistakes I've made of not just trusting. Now I'm like I got to trust you because I have no choice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you definitely can't do it all by yourself, and that's the one thing that I was facing quite a while ago, still kind of going through. It is the burnout Because Kevin was saying, oh yeah, they see you all the time off and you can come and go as you want. No, when you own a business like I, only have to work half the day yeah Right, it's which half, Like you know which?
Speaker 2:12 hours out of the day, do I want to work? That's where I'm working part time, you know.
Speaker 3:So a lot of times it's like six, seven days a week, a day off, since I can't remember when. I know it was sometime in september, like way early september, yep. But you, you really don't think about that. You're like you know I got a business, these are my operating hours, yeah, those are the hours your doors are open. But you know you're doing purchasing, you're getting boats, you know, whatever the case may be, to run your business it's like I'm the accountant, the marketing guy, the instructor, like I did that funny little video on um, on instagram that I put up the full house intro and like I love that, but I mean that's what I feel like.
Speaker 3:You're like, I'm the custodian, the, the cwi, the electrician, the maintenance tech, the marketing director, like all the sweeper the floor sweeper like all this, but that's, that's what nobody sees with the business. You know, they see, oh, you know like I had so many people reach out when I opened up my school. They're like, hey, I'm thinking about you know setting up my own school. You know here and you know doing the same thing up in this area, and it's like good luck, man.
Speaker 3:They're like, well, you know, what can I do to to to get that set up and yourself and make sure that you're ready to do this, because if you're not, you put all that time, money and energy and effort into it and you don't have the the drive to keep it going.
Speaker 5:It's gonna fail and the problem, you know the problem with that is too, that once it fails if it does fails, then you feel even worse because now you're afraid of making that next step on anything. So now you're like, oh man, I don't want to go because you, like you said, you know, you just go and yeah, I can do this, jason did it. But they don't know all the other things that go behind. Well, failure is a part of it.
Speaker 1:It is right, like there's a part of it, like it's uh, when you're in business, one thing you can't do is hand off responsibility to somebody else, because it's always your fault. No matter what happens, it's your fault. Yep, right. So when you work for someone, you can be like oh, where's my clamps? Right. Oh, my boss sucks, where's my clamps?
Speaker 1:when you work for yourself, yeah yeah, yeah, now I gotta take an hour of my day to go buy clamps. Now I'm behind on that for something I didn't think about in advance. And you just start piling on those responsibilities two in the sit up. So you're like oh, did I remember to do that?
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 1:You know, and then that constant feed of information that'll come in and out of you all day long. It's extremely tiring.
Speaker 5:It is 100%. But even with that being said, I think we're in the best era ever meaning so it's still the easiest era for you to just open your own business also everything from everything from your phone.
Speaker 5:I mean you can pretty much do anything here. Back in the day when you looked at everything, you had to go to the bank, you had to do all these things. Like you actually have to go there physically and do something right now it's like what are you doing? Just opening a company, setting up my tax thing, doing my whole?
Speaker 3:thing, I just order all my website. Yeah, yeah, correct. So within depositing checks going to go to the bank right there, virtually I know.
Speaker 5:So it is easy on that side of the things, but still not easy on running, even if you set that whole thing up.
Speaker 1:So well, skill, skill doesn't make the business well correct. Right, skill is just a tiny piece of it, because there's the brand, there's the marketing. I'm old enough that my first business had to buy radio. Yeah, I mean and a radio ad was like 20 grand to get 30 seconds twice a week. That's wow, yeah. And like what do you do with it? We went it's welding, yeah. Like yeah, come on down, I'll do stuff what I don't know.
Speaker 2:Whatever you need, I guess like but like how do you?
Speaker 1:how do you do that? As a small one, I always told people when I was younger, like you want to start a welding business, like million dollars. Now I think it's that's not true anymore. No, that's not true anymore. Before you needed a million dollars, the footprint, the machinery, and you needed to be ready to vote for six months because you're not making anything.
Speaker 1:Yep, now I think you can have a welder in your garage, you can actually start doing blueprints, you can get solid works, you can do everything on your own and you can run a business at your house for a tent right.
Speaker 4:We were on our way here and I got a phone call about a clarification on an estimate in the Uber from the airport here and I went on my phone phone and I just wrote up something and sent it over to them and I looked back at the guys I was like what did they do? Like, how could like, how did they?
Speaker 4:they had like if they needed a clarification on the big like like they, they would, they would mail you blueprints and you'd look at them and then you'd mail them back. Yes, there's no clarification. Oh, you want it in writing. I want to drive across town and drop this off facsimile, yeah yeah, but yeah like, how did they run it? Like it's so easy, slowly.
Speaker 1:They ran it slowly, yeah, yeah, and it was the pace.
Speaker 5:We didn't have the automation we didn't have the tooling, it was slow, but everything was yeah right now everything's fast, but you gotta be fast yeah, and I think you know just going back to how easy some things are now, I think I usually because I get that question asked a lot from you know a lot of the young person when I'm at a school or something. They're trying to open their own thing and I go. Well, the first thing that I would ever recommend lock your, your name up, register that name, get your social media platforms and get that there, even if it just stays there dormant for a year. You already know that that's the name you like by your website. Correct. Now you have that. Slowly, that is going to be the brick and mortar of whatever you do next, but you don't need what?
Speaker 1:a couple hundred dollars just to do that maybe yeah, 75 bucks, yeah, so that what a couple hundred dollars just to do that, maybe 75 bucks, yeah.
Speaker 5:So so that's the one thing, let's start with that, and just that's how you see spend 75 hundred dollars, and then you can just slowly all right, I have a name, maybe I can let me add something more, let me you know, and so on, so on. That's the first thing that I usually tell anyone?
Speaker 1:yeah, I was thinking ark dunkers for my next one it's yeah good quality stuff there.
Speaker 3:It's probably available actually, yeah yeah it's definitely available, yeah, yeah yeah, dot net or dot com, but I mean, you guys are talking about the benefits of a cell phone, because everything's instantaneous now and I mean that's that's great for operating the business here. I can check my emails on the fly review. Prints on the fly schedule classes or on the brain oh, it is, it is, and it's super distractive too.
Speaker 3:you know, like I, I turned all my notifications off because I got that OCD thing to where I see a red thing and I got to click on it. Yeah, you know a little red dot with a couple of numbers there. I got to check this. I got to check this and, like I started slowly weeding out some of the stuff that I the unnecessary tasks. But you know, having instant access to this information, it also builds a lot of stress, because now I need information right now, so when?
Speaker 3:I send an email to a client. I need a response right now, and if I'm not getting it, it's like Dude, what are you doing?
Speaker 5:Come on, man, check your email.
Speaker 4:Send it back Like I got to do. That's the best thing I did, like three months ago. We went on vacation. I took my email push notifications off and, yes, there is an anxiety when you see an email and you swipe past it and you're at home and you're like I want to read it.
Speaker 4:I don't have that skill yet I want to read it, but then, on the flip side, turning them off, there's an anxiety there knowing that, like I should check my email, I should check my am I missing something? And like I've dropped the ball on things, like things that I should have responded that like am I missing something? And like I've dropped the ball on things, like things that I should have responded that day, which I usually would, and that's how I built my entire business is great customer service, correct, like JMW is good customer service with a side of welding and fabrication. So me dropping the ball, which is really just getting back to them tomorrow. You know my customers are just getting back to them tomorrow.
Speaker 4:You know I, my customers are slowly getting used to that, but it has made me so much more present at home. It has reduced so much stress in my life. I can really think clear now because, like I'm kind of I'm all over the place. I'm the big ideas guy. I've got seven big ideas I want to work on and no time for any of it. Like I need to pay bills and keep payroll going, so it's really hard for me to stay focused, so being able to just not have notifications and like an email thread for every you know, over the next two hours that could have been a phone call. I can actually get something done in that time.
Speaker 5:You know it's just crazy, because once you create that quick persona, you know like hey, I'm the quick responder. You know like hey, you send me something I'm like there, and then a few years in you go like I don't want to be that person anymore. But now everyone else is expecting that out of you, right? It's like what the is Frank doing? Like it's been two hours.
Speaker 2:You know he hours, you know he hasn't answered anything. Yeah lazy, yeah so now.
Speaker 3:Then you feel that pressure and you're like damn, like I guess I I should answer yeah, yeah, I think one of the best things I've done I've read that, uh, 40 hour work week from tim paris or whatever yeah is I put an auto reply for the first time, like I never do auto reply because as soon as I get an email, boom, I'm responding. Right, I'm johnny on the spot. I'm tired of being johnny like I got other shit to do. I put that auto reply on especially for the testing center, because I go back and forth and answer these ridiculous mundane questions all the time. I need a certified welder In what.
Speaker 3:So, like now, when somebody emails me, it's great. It says you know, hey, due to the high volume of work, you know I check my emails at this time and I'll have a response here. If you send an email after this time, you know I'll reply back to you in 24 hours. And then, oh yeah, by the way, if you're looking for wealth certification, here's all the information I need. And that has weeded out 90% of my emails, because now customers and clients are like oh, let's send him all this information. Now I've got everything. I don't have to have this preliminary back and forth. And dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot. You know like what code are you testing to you code? Are you testing to what standard? How do you need this done? When do you need it? Type of material position process, all that stuff, and that just helps so much with all the mundane emails, with the testing center at least, and you put that in your autoresponder.
Speaker 3:It's in my autoresponder.
Speaker 1:Thank you for your email. Please send us all this.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's so good it is.
Speaker 5:It would probably take me about an hour to set my auto-response, because I haven't done that in 20 years I had the.
Speaker 1:YouTube I had the.
Speaker 3:YouTube. I was like how do I set auto-response?
Speaker 5:It's actually really Really. Well, sure, I guess you do it a lot.
Speaker 1:Huh, I do, I was going to say you want to work for your future self. You want to work for your future self. You said it yourself. When I started, I wanted to reput everything. That's because you got the time right. As you start getting more busy and you start getting bigger. Analyze your yeah.
Speaker 5:You don't have the time right.
Speaker 1:Once you start getting to having 200 people on your shop floor, or 1,000 people where you're like. I manage 70,000 members, 18 franchises, two divisions at a company. I am not replying within an hour, right. But you set up those expectations. The auto replies and this is what I tell my staff all the there's no one dying on an operating table because I didn't get their handrail quote to them today, right. And then, when you have been on site long enough, you also know that that customer was freaking out on you to get it right now. It's just going to go sit in some yard for three weeks before it goes anywhere. So let's be realistic about what we do, let's be realistic about who we are and then make those expectations clear with the customer. Yep On it, we're busy. We'll get back to you as soon as possible, right?
Speaker 5:Yep, yeah, that totally makes sense. And just to change subjects a little bit on that so how do you, when you started your business, and for every one of you, and whether we work for someone else or something how do you go about the competition? Do you pay a lot of attention to what the competitors are doing? Competition do you pay a lot of attention to what the competitors are doing? How do you price yourself? No, um, and you're just like, hey, you do you, boo-boo, I do me and it is what it is.
Speaker 4:There's more than enough work out there. I you know. But people are like, oh, do you know this company and this guy? I'm like yeah, I've heard of them, like what do they do? I don't really know. Like I, I stay in my lane, I put my head down and we do good work. We price, price it well. We give really good customer service. That'll speak for itself. So I don't really pay any attention, pricing wise or what they do.
Speaker 3:I really don't pay much attention to the competition, especially when it comes to, like, the testing center, because the school is is very unique. There's only like three people in the in the U S that are doing it, so I get. I mean the school practically sells itself. You know it's the only short-term training program that's open year-round. I know a couple other pop open, like you know, for one or two weeks out of the summer, but my school's open year-round. But when it comes to the testing center I know I don't know what my competition is doing. I know where their price point kind of is, because I hear from other people they're like well, I can go over to this company and get it done cheap.
Speaker 2:Have at it man.
Speaker 3:Go ahead. I know I'm not the cheapest in town, but I've got awesome customer service and I've got a great turnaround and I'm highly accurate with what I do. But if you want to get it cheaper somewhere else and not get that service, have at it. You want to save a hundred bucks? Go right down the road. I do not care because there's 10 people behind you that want to pay for my service.
Speaker 1:Establishing your brand is everything. Who are you, what is your business? Customer service with a side of welding and fabrication. Love it, love it, right? You have these pieces where what's my brand? People will come for that. They don't care. You don't go to McDonald's and ask for a whopper. That's not a thing. No one cares, right. Go to mcdonald's because you want a big mac. So why do people go to gmw? They want gmw products and services, awesome good art junkies or underground metal works, because that's what you want. When I had my shop, custom brackets custom bracket it's kind of a niche thing, but everyone can make brackets. Anybody can go make a bracket thing, but I got known for it, so then you run with it, right. It's just the thing that you get to do. So once you establish that brand, the money's not really the deciding factor. Yeah, right that it's very rarely that someone comes back on a quote and says can you knock this down 15 bucks, like that's not the game we're in, right?
Speaker 4:and I, and and if you set your business up and not chase those people, they don't usually come around. Because if you set your business up to not chase those people, they don't usually come around. Because when I first started out, I wanted to only work with good customers. Business is so much easier when you have people who enjoy buying from you and working with you and vice versa. They pay on time, the conversations are better, it's a lot less stress and I have those. But now we are focusing more on people who buy on value and quality rather than price. And if you really chase after that work and have that in your mindset and be able to politely fire the bad customers, business is so much easier.
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Speaker 5:start filling your cart with welder confidence that's actually what's going to be my next question. How do you fire a custom like hey, we're not a fed, it doesn't matter what I do or what you do, we just can work together. So how have you ever had those two?
Speaker 1:you have a red light above your door. You turn it on when they come in.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, the chair, the flipping chair, yeah yeah, I've, actually I've straight.
Speaker 4:I'll straight up tell them we've. We had a company by us, um, they do paving and things and he, you know they're, they were just they're trying to pull one of them and I didn't see it the first time. I went out there and I gave him the bill and I told him I was up front with the pricing, this and that, and I said, okay, well then pay me what you think it was worth.
Speaker 4:You would never do that now, I would never do that now, no, no, no, no. So I gave him a ballpark quote of what it was and then he added things on. And then I was he's like, well, you told me this. I'm like, yeah, but you didn't. But he's like it's no big deal. I'm like you know what? I'm not very confrontational like that. All right, I'm going to be the. I told you the price. You were the one who added more onto this. Fine, I'll take the hit on this. And then he called me up. I think his son called me. His son hired me. And then the father called me a few months later oh, we're over here doing this. I'm like, oh, your son's this, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said you know what? We had a really bad experience with you guys. There was a lot of integrity issues on your end with you guys. Um, there was a lot of integrity issues on your end and I don't think we're interested in working.
Speaker 4:and he totally got it like really, yeah, like he's, like he knows this kid, yeah, he's like understood understood and there's some people who, even with when you, when you email us all us and you need something, melissa is the first person that you get, and if you are, you can sense it she's the gatekeeper. And she's a really good gatekeeper and there have been times where it seems like a good job and they're like can I talk to who's in charge? She's like it's me. Well, I need to talk to the guy there, right, and I'm like she's like well no you can't talk to Kevin.
Speaker 4:And one time they actually found my number and contacted me instead and she told me that I put two and two together and I told him I'm like look, this isn't going to work out just from right now. I'm like you cannot disrespect anybody in my company, let alone my wife. No, go somewhere else. Sorry, I've had to take people to court man In business. I've had to take people to court man in business I've had to take people to court, and that's.
Speaker 1:That's just what a waste of time yeah what a waste of time to string something out for a few thousand bucks. But basically I worked for a guy. This is what I was doing my hollywood stint, where I was building cars for hollywood and I was working for this film company and they asked for like 40 some cars. So you're in deep on all these cars and they got the movie. Movie got canceled, gotcha right, so they don't need.
Speaker 5:We don't need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't need it we don't need these 40 cars, we don't need all this stuff. And we had a contract that all been signed. So I'm like went the guy who contracted me and I was like well, you still owe me the money. I did my job. Like done. You have 38 novas and two Suburbans Like what am I supposed to do with that? And they're like no, I didn't get paid, so you don't get paid. And I was like I can't, what? Like I don't understand how that thought process works. And I had to chase them down to court. Years later I got paid. But man, like you don't ever want to get put in those terrible situations. Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know, that's a good point actually, because when you have a business like, when do you think about a contract, when do you think about hey, let me cover myself to make sure that I got all the checkboxes
Speaker 5:on my belt, just in case something like that happened. So when you first start, you say yes to everything, exactly. It's like oh, I'm just excited he's willing. Oh my God, he looked at me. Wow, yeah, thank you. All right. And then you got to go through something like that. And then just, oh crap, well, and you think like that's just the end product.
Speaker 1:Then you go home pissed off and you think about the hours you lost with staff yeah, the jobs you didn't take. That could have been floor plan and then you just like you start spiraling, being like should I even own a business again? That was a big mistake. How could I do that? How do you trust somebody? And it's like those those mistakes are they're big learning lesson.
Speaker 4:You can look at my progression of through business through the terms.
Speaker 5:I could add it to the end of my right, I know right, it was a half a sheet. That was like five pages. You know what?
Speaker 4:I'm gonna add that in there and it just, it just keeps growing. Every time something goes wrong, you know lesson learned. Lesson learned is going on the quote we did the same thing.
Speaker 1:We actually made a big plaque that said custom is full pay period yeah if it's all, if it's all, if it's a blueprint run of the mill, we can work terms. But if you're asking me to do custom work where I'm like not something I normally do, this is something I'm pulling guys aside to work on. This is up front, like you're paying for it up front, like it is what it is Progress payments.
Speaker 4:Progress payments are a huge thing and I didn't know that when I first started, because I would just. I didn't know that asking for a deposit was a normal thing.
Speaker 2:I felt like weird about it, because like I just didn't have the money.
Speaker 4:I'm like I need like a thousand bucks to buy your material, like to get started. Yeah, To get started and I'm like. I'm like all nervous and asking for it. It's a normal thing. Now you know you can do 30.
Speaker 3:You take PayPal. Yeah, I'll film. Yeah, right, yeah, I'll take the coin. They're waiting for that question but but that's that.
Speaker 5:That's a good point. So, for example, the manufacturing company that I work for, you know, every once in a while we do a lot of things custom made for certain people and of course we have the catalog items, those are the abc items, so on, and every so often you have someone hey, can you make me this one thing with that other thing? I'm like great sure, of course we can make anything. I need 75 percent down. Yeah, I'm like what, wait, what?
Speaker 1:no yeah you know.
Speaker 5:So those are the things that you learn sometimes, even when you work for somebody else that, oh, that's how that system works, so, and then you apply that to the stuff when you are going on your own and you just want to like oh, I'm gonna just copy and paste a lot of things, right? Yeah?
Speaker 3:I was fortunate because when I started my mobile welding business I had a really good mentor that was getting out of the mobile welding business game and retiring. So he actually gave me a couple of his clients and he told me up front you get 50% down for the cost of the material, depending on the job. That way, if I go to buy the material and all of a sudden the customer is like, yeah, you know what, we're not going to do that anymore. Now I'm holding all this material I've got to build something with it anymore.
Speaker 3:Now I'm holding all this material. I got to build something with it. The manufacturer's not or the company's not going to take it back, so get 50% down, or at least the cost of the material. So the one project I was going to do was a grill. I built that Santa Maria cooking grill on worldcom and this guy reached out to me. He's like man, I want one of those.
Speaker 2:I need two of them and I was like, okay, cool, Cool, yeah, I can do that. And he's like I need them out of stainless steel. Oh what? All right.
Speaker 4:I was like okay, I was like the price just tripled.
Speaker 3:All right, okay, okay, okay, he's like send me a quote. I was like, okay, here's the price on both. Oh yeah, it's not going to work for me. Maybe my brother like 25 percent less because you guys know once you start once you build something, it's easier to build multiple than it is the first one, right, um, and so, you know, I was like here's the price. He's like, okay, that's doable. And I was like, all right, I need 50 down, or. You know that. You know which was essentially the cost of material.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like that's not doable well, it took him like two to three days to respond and he's like yeah I'm not gonna be able to swing this one man like, okay, cool, yeah, I'm not good I'm gonna go yeah, good, yeah, you go home. Depot gonna get a weber but if like firing clients, going back to that, like I fire clients through price point oh, so you know, so I know that they're gonna be a pain in the gotcha. So I add, I add that additional fee, like we've all seen it on the wall.
Speaker 2:You know it's. Yeah, if I, if I do the wall you know it's like 50 bucks an hour.
Speaker 3:You know, if you watch it's $75. If you help, it's $100.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 3:I do the same thing because it's like you're paying the client. Here's your pricing. I give them custom pricing to price myself out of the work.
Speaker 5:So I've tried that before. So the other day someone came to me and said hey, by the way, I need this one thing and it's a very good friend of actually all of us, and uh, so I kind of priced no no yep, so you know, they said hey, I need this one thing and I said, okay, cool, and I really wasn't into it.
Speaker 5:I'm like that's just gonna add so much more work to me. I'm like, hey, the only way I can do that is I need a hundred of them, and and it's this price, without a blink. Okay, dang it.
Speaker 3:Shoot, but now it's actually worth it. I know right. It'll be worth it if they say yes.
Speaker 5:I know. So now I'm like, oh okay, I should be doing that more often.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we've got a line item. It's called the PETA line item. The pain in the ass pack, yeah, and really that's not out of being a jerk and not wanting to do it, it's people need their handheld. And you can tell when they're on the phone that they are high strung and it costs time, Like it takes my time. Therefore, I need to bill for that time and you can call it, you know, management fees or hand-holding or whatever. I just put pain in the ass with that.
Speaker 4:Because I know it's going to be a pain in the ass. I'm going to get a lot of emails and phone calls and I'm going to have to do a lot of back and forth, and it's not wrong to charge for that. Time is time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Time is time, 100%. And what about when you are growing and you're still scared of bringing people in and you know you're looking at the oh, I've grown 25%, 20%. Maybe I can actually invest on somebody else and so I can just do less or just focus on business and not work, right? So when do you think that it's the right timing to add somebody else to the payroll? When you're first starting a company?
Speaker 1:For me, it was the right time that I had catalog items and so I had things that were recurring bills. You know, like I said, bracket, I knew that I was going to sell 150 of those every month. I'd been doing it for six months. I have contracts two years out. That deserves a step. That's not me. I can do that now. I can bring someone in and they can just start covering small chunks of responsibility on me.
Speaker 5:So you haven't made the money yet but you just know it's coming.
Speaker 1:I think that if you're waiting to make the money before you expand, you're not going to get there.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:I think it goes by the hours. When I was doing 60, 70, 80 hours a week, I realized I'm like I could keep 40 hour full-time person busy and I dipped my toe in and you know I hired a part-time guy and then he would come in. You know I'd work around his schedule because he worked somewhere else and then he was busy enough that I'm like, hey, man, do you want to come full-time? And then it grew from there and that was more like material processing, wire wheeling, priming, painting, things like that. And from there, after he was full time, I worked in a deal with another part-time guy and then he would come in, you know, three, five, six hours a day after he was done his other job, three, five, six hours a day after he was done his other job. And then I hired another full-time.
Speaker 4:So really it's when you can keep somebody, when you're doing 60, 70, 80 hours a week, that's another 40 hours for somebody else. And then that also frees up your schedule to keep moving the business forward, the ball rolling in the right direction, instead of you running out and getting hardware, you sitting there wire wheeling everything so that you can put primer on it. The ball rolling in the right direction. Instead of you running out and getting hardware, you sitting there, wire wheeling everything so that you can put primer on somebody else to do it.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm in that spot right now and I'm actually waiting to be able to afford it to hire somebody on are you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I find that to be. It holds you back it.
Speaker 3:It does, but I have to be able to justify being able to bring somebody on perfect because I. Because I've already got, you know, loans out, you know, through the bank to when we purchased the school.
Speaker 4:So, like.
Speaker 3:my overhead throughout the month is $8,000 to break even, you know so to bring somebody else on and be responsible for that. If I can't generate the additional business and income now, I'm screwing somebody else over when I started my first business, I did something really stupid that worked out.
Speaker 1:I took no loans. I literally started with a $300, it was 140 foot square piece of a shop that I just had to work table and a welder and I just started organically growing. So I was never behind the ball right. So when I could hire it was because I was just busy enough and then I could hire, and then when I grew it's because I already had the work. So I was never caught in a point where I owed someone my money before I made it which was a luxury.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you weren't in a very lucky place.
Speaker 1:But that takes time, right, and most people don't want to put that time into growth. They want to get bigger quicker, and it's doable, sure, but you need the capital and it's hard to now you got this number sitting over your head. You got to hit all the time.
Speaker 4:You need that capital, that was a big thing where the jobs would come in and they were bigger and, yeah, it's awesome was a big thing where I, the jobs would come in and they were bigger and, yeah, this is awesome. And instead of taking like a week to push out the door and send invoices, a month, well, I'd need. I've one, two, three, four, five people on payroll. I'm not getting, I'm not sending an invoice for 30. I need to cover their payroll, not for only that 30 days, but the 30 days after that until I get that check in. And I put myself in a few bad spots because I just didn't take enough money down. I didn't foresee that and that really put me in a you know, just because you think it's, you know what this is, a great job it's. You know, when it's just you and one guy, it's like, oh, $30,000. Great yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know what? I don't have to work for five months, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then it's like, oh well, $5,000 in material and then you have to process it and you have to pay the powder coater and the paint and the material and keep all the bills paid. Yeah, so you have to be careful. If you don't have the available, the available capital to float that you just need to grow real, incremental.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, when it's coming in, when everything's coming out of your you know your bank, it's your own wallet, yeah, you really just second guess every single decision. You know it's not as easy as I work for someone now, hey, we need this, sure, go ahead. You know, hey, I just I just walk in, clock in, clock out and go home. But so the first business I lost it was a combination of me not trusting anyone and also because I was forking everything, of course, just like most of us here, when we first start and eight months in, I think, the pressure of just doing it all by myself, not trusting anyone. And then you add, yeah, money situation as well. You're like oof, dude, I'm just my divorce, my family, everything's just gonna gonna go out the door. Because now you are just looking for a trigger, like anything that anybody says what, what, let's go right now. You're always just mad about everything it just answers it just.
Speaker 5:Everyone pays the price around you yep, then I'm talking about capital.
Speaker 3:If you're getting ready to start your business. Aside from the expenses of operating the business, what do you think you should have as far as capital when you're first setting up and some of the other things that go along with setting up the business?
Speaker 5:So you think, capital to start what kind of business? Or also just to cover you for a certain amount of time?
Speaker 3:What's that magic number? I was three months. I was always three months, okay.
Speaker 1:Would never try to get under three months. If I was getting close to that three-month line, it'd be like, okay, I personally got to get out there and find some jobs or bring some stuff in or start figuring it out, because it would be sometimes 90 days before I get paid on big jobs, that would you know.
Speaker 1:You're looking at 400, you know, or 40 dollars a month wages, yeah right, so if you don't got that in the bank account, for me it was always number one take care of my staff. I'm not gonna miss paying them, even if I don't pay myself.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah, right happens a lot.
Speaker 2:It happens a lot when you start.
Speaker 1:I actually started working a night job during some of my tight times because I'm running my shop and I was like you know what, I'm gonna go work for a welding shop at night, pulling trigger to bring in a steady income, just to make sure I don't ever fall behind that line, right?
Speaker 3:what do you? What's yours frank when you're running yours like, what was that that magic number for in months, not dollar amount?
Speaker 5:yeah, correct, so you know. So right now I still have a business in the market, a distributorship, and definitely three to six months is usually. But I also think it has to do with what kind of business, because if the overhead is very high and you know let's say, oh, I need $20,000. All right, well, that's $100,000 if you want to cover five, six months, right? So not everyone has that just laying there. So the type of business is also going to determine how far you can go. Has that just laying there? So the type of business is also going to determine how far you can go. But minimum, at least three months. Right now I'm forking, I'm on the losing end, you know, because right now everything's coming out of wallet and all that first, all that cash that I had is kind of gone. So I gotta make some decisions on what I have there. But yeah, it's, it's magic numbers. Like I wish I had a year, you know. Yeah, what about you?
Speaker 4:kip. So when I first started it I was kind of semi-forced into starting because he's like how could? How can I help you go on your own I never had a number get out of here,
Speaker 1:I, I I are you sure you don't want to start a?
Speaker 5:business you need to go to another table.
Speaker 4:Yep yep, yeah, I. I never had a magic number, it was um, I just kept on grinding, grinding, grinding as long as, as long as there was money there, like leader league grinding, well, both.
Speaker 4:Sometimes, Grinding for days, Welding for days yeah, so I don't have a good answer for that. I would say three months is kind of it's comfortable. It's comfortable Like you can have some wins and losses and still be able to pay yourself your mortgage, not put your family in a bad spot, and you know knowing your numbers is really important, like short-term disability as a business owner.
Speaker 3:If I'm out I'm screwed Like I'm the guy that's running all this stuff. You know, especially if you have an employee or several employees, you need a good buffer. I think six months is if you can get up to that. I mean, that's something that you know.
Speaker 3:If things go off well you got to work towards it. But I think six months is like a really good cushion to have. You know, just just in case, like I I said, short-term disability, you fall ill, you know something happens. Um, a lot of the business owners I talked to they say that like six months is right around that sweet spot I mean it's you're gonna play trying to get it, but once you get it there, try to keep that there.
Speaker 3:You know so you, you always have that that good buffer, and you can still operate your business.
Speaker 1:You got money coming in. You're talking about bringing in one more staff yeah your six months drops three months months.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, there Right there.
Speaker 2:One staff.
Speaker 1:Then I got to build back up to that, six months, that's right, because as soon as you start bringing in more people, they start halving at it. Right, they start taking out of that pie.
Speaker 5:But one of the other things when you bring someone in, it's not just about the money. Now you have to make sure that they bought that you know. Hey, they're going to represent the company in the right way, because those six months, or whatever work you've done before, one single person within a month can really ruin everything.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, you can't be a geek off the street. You've got to be pretty handy with the steel. That's good.
Speaker 5:But yeah, your reputation, man. You know, at the end of the day you've worked so hard to just make something out of your name, your brand, whatever it is, and someone just comes in and just bad customer service, whatever it is, and now everything you've done is like, ah, out the door, start from zero again. So that's the other part why we all fear. It's not just about the money all the time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, one of the things we do with our guys is, you know, to help represent, having them know that the customers are watching them. We have an outstanding thing in our shop where, if their name gets mentioned in a Google ad review, they get $50. So that way they help represent our company well, because it also benefits them too.
Speaker 3:We do want to do a profit bonusing down the road, but in it's, you know, in the short term, that's. That's. That's how we're doing it now are you betting these?
Speaker 5:reviews or is uh dylan having all his high school buddies right? A review is a review a five-star review is a five-star review so, but that's a good point that you bring that up, because do you guys actually ask your customers, hey, or make it easier for them the QR code? Hey, please give me a five-star review and things like that. I do surveys Because it goes a long way.
Speaker 3:I kind of overdo it, because the software that we have for the school because that's where I'm worried about my reviews, but the testing, center is all word of mouth.
Speaker 3:But with the school, you know, I always ask them on friday, you know, if you like the class, you enjoy yourself, please get on. So you know, get on google, leave us a review. And I've actually had. You know, we asked day one how did you find out about the school? You know, why did you decide to come here? And a lot of them say it's, it's because your reviews are phenomenal. But the thing is so like, when they, when they schedule a week-long class, it schedules five different sessions so, oh, sunday night, I've reviewed, so.
Speaker 3:So hold on sunday sunday night they get hey, you know, you're scheduled for this. You know session it starts monday morning, be there at eight. Here's everything you need to know. And then, when they leave the class that day at 5 pm, they get hey, you know, how did you enjoy the class, please? You know, leave us a review. And then they get another email hey, you're scheduled for you know a class tuesday here's, you know, be there at eight o'clock. So they get these every single. So tell them. You know, like first day of class. Sorry for all the emails, just disregard them. Just show up at every day, you know, at eight, and don't leave a review till Friday once you've been through the full class. But it's because that software we use. It breaks it up into five individual sessions instead of a week long, but we over-ask them. But by Friday they always remember to leave a review.
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure, for sure. Do you get any bad ones though?
Speaker 3:I have not.
Speaker 1:So how is that?
Speaker 3:helpful. How is that helpful? Because you want. You need bad ones.
Speaker 5:I think I know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1:Right, you need to know what you're doing wrong? Well, I do. If everything's good, that's what we do.
Speaker 4:We actually coached our guys on how to ask for reviews, and all jobs are not five-star jobs. Things just happen. I won't even ask somebody unless I know they're going to give us a five-star review.
Speaker 2:No, really, that's not fair, and well, we only want five stars. I don't want 4.7 4.9.
Speaker 4:I want five star, like we've got 40, 50 like five star reviews and what we say is listen, if and I coach my guys because that they have they have a stake in this game also because they get 50 bucks if their name is benji, if both two names are mentioned, that's $100, right, that's a $100 review. But we say if you feel that we earn five stars, please give us five stars. I'm going to send you the link right now. Just click on it and it automatically pops up. If you feel for any reason we don't deserve five stars, please let us know and we will earn that fifth star. That way we're subliminally telling them we don't want you to leave a four star, I only want five stars. And that's how and that's how we've done it.
Speaker 4:I'd rather have, I'd rather have less reviews and all five stars and we've got compliments. They're like all the other welders out there in our area because, like you know I think it's it really helps with ranking google locally. He's a welder near me, you know. Jmw fabrication has like 45 star reviews. The closest one is like 4.5 and they have like 14 reviews you know.
Speaker 5:So it really helps us rank, you know, and and that's a great point too and hey, if it works for you, who are we to say that it's not working?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You're getting it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:But in today's world, with how much, well, how easy it is to just use social media for free. Do you guys actually also pay for ads, or recommend?
Speaker 4:I pay for ads you do, yeah, a lot of money Really.
Speaker 2:How much?
Speaker 4:No, we're about. We spend about $1,600 a month in actual Google ads and then another $1,500 on somebody to manage it.
Speaker 5:Oh, really yeah, oh, all right, yeah I mean it's.
Speaker 3:We run through social media because that's like where our target audience is hanging out. So every couple of weeks, you know, especially when we release a new class schedule or you know like the classes aren't filling up fast enough, you know I'll reach out to Audrey and say hey, you know, put a, put a $250,.
Speaker 5:You know, put it at, put an ad together, put 250 bucks over the course of two weeks and boom like within. I'd say Gotcha, same for you.
Speaker 1:Google Ads.
Speaker 5:All right, we're.
Speaker 1:Google, meta, and then for the business side.
Speaker 3:We're on LinkedIn. I need to learn the Google part. I need to get on that one.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, it's getting a lot of pull.
Speaker 3:I get a lot of retirees that come into the program and I know they're not finding me through Instagram. It's all word of mouth.
Speaker 4:Yep and they're to say I know enough to be dangerous, but I'm not good. So like I'm kind of a pain when it comes to, like you know, I had somebody run my Google ads before and they tanked them and I was doing better just by myself. And recently I and recently, two months ago I hired a firm Really well recommended. According to them, they've never lost a client. Nobody's ever left.
Speaker 1:Only five Only five.
Speaker 5:Now we get it Now, we get it yes.
Speaker 3:Method is madness.
Speaker 4:So I'm trusting them to do it and we've got it set up and we've got to implement it, and there's a lot of ways to really hone in on who you're looking for Because, like they did an analysis on what our Google ads were, who they were serving- to the personas.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And most of our ads were going to the bottom 50% of the money earned, like $50,000 and less. That's not our clientele, so they somehow raised the bar on the backend. So now we're getting less traffic, but it's more qualified traffic and they have more money to spend. Gotcha.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I totally get it. So tell me because I said earlier how what I I think and usually what I tell someone that wants to serve is hey, just get your names first and all that, but give me your top five things in order that you guys think that you have an idea.
Speaker 3:Do these one, two, three, four, five things first I can't do it in priority, but the first thing I would say is is sit down and write yourself an honest business plan. Write it down.
Speaker 1:Write it down when we go ahead, there's actually online business plan templates yeah, download one, read it, try to fill it in and see if you're up your butt. You know, like, really see if, like you know what you're talking about Gotcha Kevin.
Speaker 4:Hey, like, first of all, first off, if you want to do it like, do you really want it? Okay, find your niche. Find your niche that you like. We did everything across the board and we did it. Well, I did it. But hiring for that is really hard and it's hard to find those guys. So, find your niche, stick with it. Treat it like like I said before, like we are in the customer service business with a side of welding. Everybody wants to work with somebody who is easy to work with, is honest, has good value for what they charge. And evaluate that in yourself and go after that demographic and price yourself well. Build your structure of your business, as in insurance and your accountants, and have a goal of where you're going to go before you start. Have a goal of where you're going to go before you start. Like, let other people do what they are that and you stick with what you're good at. Don't try to do it all. I made that mistake.
Speaker 1:Don't do it and you're gonna do it poorly. Yeah, don't even try.
Speaker 5:Yeah yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're in that same line, jason yeah, like, like I said, like set up a solid business plan. There's Max was saying, there's templates online. When we went to go purchase underground metalworks, this was the cool thing. We had to go to a bank and I was, like you know, felt like that little, what's the guy's name, please.
Speaker 3:So I had a business plan from when I set up my mobile welding business, Metal Trends. We have this thing called the South Lake Business Development Center, or whatever SBDC, and so that guy sat down with me when I built that and I never did anything with that business plan, but I had an awesome template to start with. So I just started pulling everything into that business plan. When we set up Underground Metalworks and that was the one thing that set us apart to be able to get that loan they were very apprehensive about giving us a loan just because they're like we don't know if this concept's going to work. Nobody else is doing this, you don't have a proven track record of running a business and none of that.
Speaker 3:But when I walked in I handed each one of them in it, Like I took it down to Staples and got like legit nice.
Speaker 5:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:And the guy goes, goes, what's?
Speaker 2:this I said it's a business plan, wow.
Speaker 3:And I've worked at this bank for 15 years. Nobody's brought me a business plan. That's a great start. So he opened it up and he's like holy. He's like this is like really nice, this is legit, yep. And he went through all the finances and the numbers, like everything that's in there, and he goes. I think we can work with it, wow.
Speaker 5:Wow, that was the biggest thing. I just got goosebumps. That's awesome Me too, but it's cool. Yeah, I'm in.
Speaker 2:Canada right, so we've got some different things.
Speaker 1:Up there we have this thing called the Business Development Bank of Canada, so it's the same type of thing. When I went to the bank thinking about business, they're like you need to get a business plan. I went down there and I, okay, I gotta get a business plan. Like we have templates cool. You're like there's a two-week course that we offer on how to start a business really it's free, paid for the government you want to take it.
Speaker 1:I was like, of course you guys get a lot of free. We do. We pay a lot of taxes yeah so it's not free anymore yet, right.
Speaker 1:But so like I got kind of mentored I got. They basically helped me write my business Two years, three years, five years projections, what my skill sets were, what we're planning on doing, how much money I need realistically. I was totally underselling myself. I thought I'd be like, oh, a hundred grand I can get rolling After doing the business plan. They're like no, no, no, no, you need like 300 grand.
Speaker 5:Get real.
Speaker 1:You know what I, after he's doing the business plan, they're like no, no, no, you need like 300 grand, get real, you know. And I was like oh, damn, okay, like, let's do this, I'll be back and what about.
Speaker 5:So now you have your business. Right now you have the business going on. When do you think that it's a good time to say, hey, this is not working? I should pull the plug, like how long do you go?
Speaker 1:well, how many businesses have you tanked? Well, I got two under my belt. Yeah, my third one took off. My first two were terrible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've closed some up yeah.
Speaker 2:But when do you make?
Speaker 3:that decision, like you know, what?
Speaker 5:It's six months, it's a year. How do you make that decision and why?
Speaker 3:I shut mine down because of a new opportunity.
Speaker 3:Okay, so that makes sense, I was getting to the point of my business where it was growing and it was like get off the pot. And I was kind of getting scared and it was like my next step is to hire an employee or take this opportunity. And the opportunity provided me security and insurance and benefits and a steady paycheck, because the other part was the unknown. You know, I bring somebody else on now I'm responsible for him, his family and all this other stuff. Am I going to be able to keep pulling in work? So I was like I'm going to get into full-time teaching and I'm going to shut this business down, got it.
Speaker 4:I haven't shut down a business, but I've considered it a few times.
Speaker 2:Daily.
Speaker 4:If it's worth it. Do I truly enjoy this? Do I want to do this? Is it worth the trade-off for the time and freedom at what? At that point it was really not time, freedom or money and um, but I still enjoyed it and I knew. I know it's in my blood. So I really had to think that. There's been a few times and I've considered it, and if I go get a job somewhere else, I'm going to be miserable about three months. So I have a reputation, I have a skill, I have the tools. Let's just take a minute, let's reset and let's figure out how to do this the right way.
Speaker 5:Yeah, in my case, the first time it took me too long, but because of you know, now you're judging like, hey, people are gonna failure, you know whatever. And your mind starts going off and you just actually just keep pulling money out of your check and you know I'm like, oh my god, now I'm ready, it's gonna turn around. It's gonna turn around, it's gonna come back.
Speaker 1:Nope, now I'm broke you're not in the right mindset. Yeah, it's the ego.
Speaker 5:it's just like just let go, let go, just let go, when you know that even everything you've got is just not working.
Speaker 3:Walt Disney went bankrupt nine times building that theme park 20 minutes from here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Nine freaking times.
Speaker 3:It depends. You've got to be passionate about it. That's why I said when you set up your business, you've got to have a heart-to-heart. Am I going to be able to see this through? That heart am I? Am I going to be able to see this through? That's the biggest thing, especially, like you, we've all been through it. You know. Do you know when you get to that point, I mean, there's a, there's not a day that goes by. That you know.
Speaker 2:I think you know there's a lawnmower out there with my name on it, right, it'd be so much easier going to work for somebody else.
Speaker 3:And it's like at the end of the day, I sit back and think to myself it's like you know what I fought and struggled and strived to do this. I'm going to keep pushing it through because it's going to get better. This is what I asked for because, like Kevin said at the beginning of the episode, everybody sees the money, all the flashing stuff and this and that everything and the free time. I had all that for a while and then I opened up a business. But now it's like man, why did I give everything up? And it's it's. And I just shut this down and go back and work for somebody else, build everything back up. It's like, no, I'm gonna ride this till the wheels fall off I'm gonna push through?
Speaker 3:yeah, because this is what I worked for got it. This is the hard part, you know, like I've, it's gonna get easier, you know I'm walking up the hill right now.
Speaker 5:yep, I know it makes sense and it makes sense. I know you have a partner. What about bringing one? When you are opening a business and you are taking those man, do I bring one in? I just go on myself by myself, Is that easy?
Speaker 3:No Terrible.
Speaker 5:Everybody.
Speaker 3:I talk to when I was setting my business up, everybody told me, do not bring in a partner.
Speaker 1:I got, I got ripped off, ripped off straight up a partner, that business. It was one of my failures. Trusted the wrong person, lost half my income lost, divorced, everything like everything collapsed. My whole life was over. I'd start from scratch.
Speaker 5:So are you guys saying don't bring a partner? Is that is that what you guys are saying? Number one it can't be family.
Speaker 3:Definitely not family, do not do family.
Speaker 1:Number one, number two they got to have a steady income from wherever they're coming from. It's not just you, it's not just them coming in and say I'll pitch in 30 grand in my time and we'll do this An angel investor. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're already a millionaire and you got some cash to help me out. We got a dream. We can work this out, Maybe no. That's where your situation is right.
Speaker 1:But you got to be real careful because if it's your skill that's making the business run, that's your skin in the game. Correct Cash is not skin in the game.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right, right, yeah, the game correct. Cash is not skin in the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah I. I was always told the only ship that's made to sink is the partnership. And I've seen it. I like that. No, no I. I love that.
Speaker 4:I've been around a lot of business owners my entire life. In all the different I've seen one out of 150, 200 people who I know for in.
Speaker 4:I've seen one actually work and I even talked to the one partner and he feels slighted with a lot of his things he feels like he does more, but they have good defined roles and he gets the stuff done and his partner does all the finance. So it can work If you have good roles and responsibilities. I don't think I could ever do it. Um, I'm just too hard. I I really call it the welder. I mean, go figure, I'm a little, I'm a little bit hard-headed a little stubborn, a little I'm a little you don't say uh, I'm a little stubborn.
Speaker 4:I'm I'm the big idea guy and it's hard for me to really implement things. I'm really good at delegating, even when I need to go and actually implement it, gotcha. So I don't think a partnership would be good for me unless it's really really well-defined, because it's human nature. You always like, you know, when you're there at night and they're at home you're going to, the thought's going to come into your head.
Speaker 4:You can either heed that thought or you can squash it. But if you do feel like you're slighted, it's going to grow. And if you have a good open line of communication and you can talk about it without being accusatory to the other person and saying, hey, this isn't working out and you're both compensated correctly, I could see it working.
Speaker 5:I just don person and saying, hey, this isn't working out and you're both compensated correctly. I could see it working. I just don't know. How did you do that?
Speaker 3:Because, yeah, I know you're from day one, Jason, so that's your case from day one, right? Yeah, I mean it's working. Rob kind of put in the bill to put everything back together and I get to entirely run everything and the best part is he's not pulling a paycheck. Oh hey.
Speaker 3:Well, I won one of those, yeah right that kind of worked out for me, but I think that's a very unique situation not a lot of people are going to find themselves in. I definitely would not go into business with somebody else if it were a different set of circumstances, because you're always going to look out for number one. That's human nature. And if they're looking out for number one, not the business that's going to affect me and my family 100%.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3:Well, gents, this has been a blast. I know Kevin's got to get out of here. We went a little bit over time, but we got to get him on his flight. Before we get out of here, let's do go around the table and tell everybody where they can find you. We'll start with Frankie.
Speaker 5:So yeah, frank Vargas, torch Tales pretty much the name says it all on every one of the platforms, and you can find me at an airport or a plane or a rental car, or a lime scooter, there you go.
Speaker 3:That's me, that's me.
Speaker 4:Now you can find me and my team at JMW Fabrication. You can find the podcast Welding Business Owners Podcast. We're on Spotify, instagram, things like that. And you can find the Fabricator Olympics at fabricatorolympicscom.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I'm at the Canadian Welding Bureau, cwb Group. We're like the AWS Canada, google us. The association's free membership and our podcast runs through there. Five-star reviews only.
Speaker 2:Only, only five.
Speaker 1:Not with 70,000 members man.
Speaker 3:You can find me on uh ark junkies podcast on instagram or underground metalworks on instagram and tiktok. Um yeah, facebook as well. Underground metal, underground hyphen, metalworkscom if you want to check out the class schedules and arkjunkiescom. And you can stream the podcast on spotify, apple or apple podcast and any other popular streaming service well, thank you guys.
Speaker 5:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:thank you guys, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you guys. It's been great. It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 3:We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:You've been listening to the Cwb association welding podcast with max. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced by the cwb group and presented by max, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.