The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 202 with Justin Smith and Max Ceron
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world to share their passion and give you the right tips to stay on top of what’s happening in the welding industry.
Experience the captivating journey of Justin Smith, a Welding Supervisor at Ontario Shipyards, who joins us to illuminate the often-overlooked realm of Canadian shipbuilding. We explore Ontario Shipyards' growth and the promising future of the shipyard industry, where significant growth and steady opportunities await. With power generation contracts extending to 2036, there’s never been a better time for young tradespeople to join the field. We discuss the financial security welding offers, the importance of smart financial planning during industry booms, and the lasting impact of mentorship. Whether you're in the industry or considering a career in welding, Justin's perspective provides valuable insights into this exciting and evolving world.
Follow Justin:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-smith-312154289/
Careers at Ontario Shipyards: https://www.onshipyards.com/careers
Thank you to our Podcast Advertisers:
Canada Welding Supply: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/
Canaweld: https://canaweld.com/
Josef Gases: https://josefgases.com/
There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of benefits to build your career, stay informed, and support the Canadian welding industry. https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/become-a-member
What did you think about this episode? Send a text message to the show!
All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
Speaker 1:Attention welders in Canada Looking for top quality welding supplies, look no further than Canada Welding Supply. With a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear and consumables. Cws has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part All podcast listeners get 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Can you believe that? Use code cwb10 at checkout when placing your next order. Visit canadaweldingsupplyca now. Canada welding supply, your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Hello and welcome to another edition of the cwb Association podcast. My name is Max Saron and, as always, I'm going up down, left right and inside out looking for the guests around this world to bring on to this wonderful show. Today I have, from southern Ontario here, justin Smith. He's coming to us direct from his work at Ontario Shipyards. Justin, how are you doing today? I'm great yourself. Good, good, good. So we were just talking before the show started and you are a welding supervisor at Ontario Shipyards, is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:How do you like that job? I love it. It's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it keeps you busy. Oh, on my toes all the time.
Speaker 1:So first of all I think we need to clarify a couple things for people that are listening, because ontario shipyards has recently had a kind of a branding name chain right. I've known it for the last while I believe in correct me if I'm wrong, but it was heddle shipyards, correct?
Speaker 2:before yeah, it was heddle marine service when I started and then about 2018, 2019, 2019, we changed to Edel Shipyards and now Ontario, now Ontario, yeah.
Speaker 1:Is there a reason for that change? You know, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2:I think it was just to more or less brand everything as one, just with the three shipyards across the province, just to kind of integrate it more formally as one yard right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like ship building, ship construction, ship maintenance has been kind of off the radar for most of the welding community, even though we have massive shipyards in ontario, quebec, east coast, west coast without work with countries around the world on boats of all different kinds and ships of all different kinds. It wasn't really something that was talked about. You don't see a lot of material about welding on ships. You don't see a lot of uh advertising of the you know the ship construction industry. How did you find it?
Speaker 2:oh, actually, actually I was at a bar one night and I was laid off from where I worked before and some guy was talking about it and I'd never even heard about this place down at the end of Hilliard here, right, and I drove down here the next day and handed in a resume and the rest is pretty much history.
Speaker 1:Well, see, that's so interesting because that's kind of how most people I know got into shipping or shipyards. But like I mean, I've been to all the shipyards in canada, or most of them. There's no small ones, they're all big like, they're all at least a few hundred people you know, and uh, and you get out to like the c spans and the irvings and you're talking about, you know, in the thousands of people, and how, how is this so under the radar? You know, like, how do you? Why do you think it's kind of not that common Cause I know they're all dying for welders right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started back here in 2017. It was Heddle Marine service at the time and it was fairly small. They had just got their hands on the port weller yard and I don't think thunder bay was in the equation yet. So I would say I started april and it was peaking, because you have your on and off seasons right. And then, uh, through the summer months, I was fortunate enough to stay on full time and not have to deal with a layoff, and I would say at most there was 20 to 25 of us between all trades in the yard at any time, and then obviously we would ramp up for winter. We're great. So as we grew and they got Port Weller, I mean the workforce obviously grew right, and then we began to get support from the government and whatnot, which has really got it out there now that Ontario Shipyards really is a player in the game. Now, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So for yourself, you know you said you had a job before and you got laid off and you kind of stumbled into shipyard work. Where did you get into the trade? You know where are you from, where's your hometown and you know how did you find welding.
Speaker 2:I'm from Vineland, ontario, which is a small kind of a grape town, vineyards and whatnot. It's just between Grimsby and St Catharines. And where I went I went to high school, the bdss beamsville district secondary school, and we had fairly big tech like we had dedicated welding, dedicated auto, dedicated carpentry, yada, yada and um, yeah, I I struggled a bit through through school. I, growing up I was always hands-on like in in the garage and whatnot, you know working tractors, working on cars, body work, this and that. So I was never really one for sitting in front of a teacher. I was very fortunate because you couldn't really start taking welding until grade 10. I was very fortunate in grade 9 to have been kind of pulled into the welding by the welding teacher and from there I had welding anywhere from two to four periods, like two periods a semester, from grade nine right through till till the time I left high school.
Speaker 1:So and when you came home to your parents and were like, hey, I really dig in this welding thing, you know, at least you have something to do at school now. That kind of has something to look forward to, as opposed to dreading going to school because you're just bored for eight hours.
Speaker 2:You know how did your parents feel about you finding this career I think they I grew up with my grandparents, primarily, so I think they were kind of happy. It's kind of funny because, uh, originally I wanted to be an auto mechanic, so I had done a, a few co-ops, is that. And then, uh, as I progressed more and more with the welding and kind of realized, like hey, this is something I'm actually like kind of good at, I enjoy this. I kind of uh switched, uh switch paths, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then um, yeah, then you graduate high school and you know like then what?
Speaker 2:yeah, in 2014, 2013, 2014 um, I I came to heddle from national steel car. I uh I applied there on my 17th, just before my 18th birthday. I applied at national steel car they had a big job, fair and uh, I got a phone call three, four days after my 18th birthday and uh, that was it. I chose to uh drop out and uh go start working. I just felt like it was the right thing for me to do, and it's uh got me this far right now. So since then, I've done my mature credits and whatnot, got my grade 12, but but back at the time, it was uh, it was the path I chose to take and with, uh, with that job going into it as such a young person, you're going to be one of the youngest people on the floor.
Speaker 1:You know how did the industry accept you? You know like? Did you find that the learning curve was was fine, you know, were you able to just slide right into it, or or was it tough? Um, skills.
Speaker 2:Skill set wise, I was okay because I had already four years about four years under my belt with welding and stuff like that. In theory, it was more or less just being obviously 18 years old and walking into this environment. That's like wow, you know this is breathtaking right.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of adjusting, working with people you know double my age, triple my age, my age, and they don't care. No, they don't care how young you are, how old you are, you're, you're working next to them, you're just the same as they are right. So, yeah, learning how to kind of toughen up and just and deal with stuff and take stuff as it came, I think really really helped shape me into who I am today, right did you have any like negative experiences where people were like, ah, kid, you're too young, you're gonna get hurt, or you know like you could get around some pretty grumpy people?
Speaker 1:or did you have someone that was sort of a mentor in that first job, that kind of said hey man, I'll take you under my wing a bit and show you the ropes?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, my first job like steel car it was, uh, it was cutthroat. I don't thereroat, I don't think there's anybody that really stands out in my head. That kind of helped me. It was more for yourself, right. But as I came here, this place has just been a whole different story as far as mentorship goes and the abilities and opportunities I've had.
Speaker 1:So you came in as, basically, maybe, you know, maybe a year and a bit of of work practice under your belt, and then, uh, you come into heddle and you, you tell me about the opportunity. So what did you see when you first walked into a shipyard? You know, um, in terms of, you know, from the eyes of a welder, you're looking around, what do you think's going on? Uh, because, they look, they can be pretty chaotic shipyards, yeah that's what I was gonna say back then.
Speaker 2:I was 21, just turned 21, when I started here. It was a. It was chaos. It was a completely different change of pace and a completely different environment. Right, I went from welding new to new, everything jigged up to you're fitting it up or somebody else is fitting it up, and it's rusty to new, new to new, rusty to rusty, like it was just a completely different environment, right yeah?
Speaker 1:how was it on your skills?
Speaker 2:it with, uh, with the flux core side of things, I was all right. I hadn't had much experience with stick under my belt yet so that was.
Speaker 2:Uh. That was a huge learning curve. That was a lot of late nights staying on my own time and, uh, burning rods until uh, so I got to it. But again, I I think back to one time I was on a night shift here and uh, there was a couple older gentlemen on night shift and I was struggling with stick and uh, the one guy just took me and I think for about two or three hours I I just watched him burn rods and as he was welding he was yelling out tips and pointers and from there it was like the snap of a finger. I just really, really started to pick up on it.
Speaker 1:So you know, as you started welding your there's a couple of things that happened to all young welders. You know I was a welder myself. So first of of all, you hone your skills, you start getting better and better as a welder, um, but then that part that you hated when you were younger school starts to creep back. It always starts to creep back in any trade because to get to the next levels, to get to the next certs, you know that you need to kind of up your own game. It always takes going back to a desk for a bit or back to a course for a bit. Now, luckily, in the welding trades it's not too long, ever of a hit. But you know for yourself how long were you kind of in the welding scene before you're like you know what?
Speaker 2:I think I'm gonna have to go back and and brush up on some of these other skills that I need I would say about about five years I was about pretty heavy on the tools here for about five years until, um, until that, that part of it kind of clipped in that like, hey, I gotta. There were some events that had occurred along the way that I I really I probably shouldn't get too into detail about, but really when we saw the swing to um annex m really starting to take full effect, yeah it was like, wow, there's like there's a lot more to this than just welding.
Speaker 2:right like you, starting to learn about it and and see about, it was like and this might be an opportunity to grab onto something here and run with it, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for most people that are listening, and especially if you're outside of Canada, there's a few different registries or standards around the world used for shipyard, for shipbuilding. For the longest time. Csa was kind of on the periphery of shipyard building just as a welding standard and code, but not specific to marine. When the marine annex came in, it was basically a way of creating a set of standards that was specific to the marine industry and things that have been done for a long time. It's not like they reinvented the wheel, but now there was a code that was meant to be stuck to and it meant right from procedure development to material handling, to the weldments and the testing in the nde.
Speaker 1:After um, lloyd's, another registry. A lot of people sometimes wonder what other registries out there. Lloyd's is a huge registry for shipbuilding as well. Iso is in there. It depends where you are in the world and what you're doing, but if you think about it it makes sense. Like you know, you're building these massive ships, these massive things that got to live out in the water, and people think of water as like a soft, floaty thing, not not when you're hundreds of tons. Water is like cement at that size. So, like you gotta be build these things to withstand not only the environment but the jobs that they need to do and keep the people on board safe right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there, especially with the procedure development, because you essentially saw as far as being able to use any kind of pre-qualified procedures or anything that was totally done away with, right. So you're talking any, any process, any, any kind of different grades and material. You're you're talking about running a pqr for, for essentially anything anything to do, right?
Speaker 1:so, for yourself, tell me how it worked out. You know, you told me you didn't like sitting in a desk and you didn't like school. But now you're older, right? You're coming up 24, 25. You've been welding for five years, working on your hand skills, which I think is awesome. At this point in your journey, had you considered getting your apprenticeship done or going for your Red Seal at all?
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe down the road, all yeah, maybe, maybe down the road. I I think I'm still at a point in my career where I'm I'm not fully sure where where I see myself next. Yeah, a lot's happened at a fast pace in the last couple years where, um, I think now that, as in the yard that I'm in specifically, things are starting to slow down, I, right now I just want to kind of maybe take a year to kind of breathe and like take in, like how much I've progressed in the last couple of years.
Speaker 2:Right Cause it's it's not easy at a young age right, you're taking a lot really quick Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, and it's hard on the brain.
Speaker 1:Start thinking about where do I want to go next and this and that, and then you get caught. But it's like maybe I just need to kind of take some time and enjoy. Enjoy the moment for what it is right. Yeah, well, and you, I seen in your bio here that you had taken your welding supervisor course. That that's a great course, first of all, for anyone who's never taken um kind of any welding schooling. Like, let's just say, you were just got on the tools young and you just started welding. I mean, that's what I did. Not everyone goes to school to weld. Some of us just go weld, but at some point you want to start learning more. The welding supervisor course is a great entry course for that. How did you enjoy it? What was it like for you to get back in the classroom? Like, were you scared? You're like, oh man, I'm gonna have to go sit in the classroom again. Did you take it online? You know what was it like for you?
Speaker 2:so I did mine on online yeah we're too busy here for for me to be able to leave. Uh, I loved it. I learned so much I I would highly recommend it to if it's anybody's first time hearing about it or you know about it or even thinking about doing it, whether you have the opportunity for your employer to pay for it or you just pay for yourself, I. I think what you come out with after is is invaluable it you learn so much through the course what kind of stuff?
Speaker 1:what kind of stuff did you learn that you like for yourself? You know you had been working for a while, so you know stuff because you're doing it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what was it that really like the in the course you're like oh, like some kind of light bulbs went off I would say roles and responsibilities as a supervisor I didn't because when I started, when I got the opportunity to be a lead hand, you know that's one thing you don't think about anything other than, yeah, I'm still on tools, but now I get to lead people right. When I actually got put in the supervisor position, it was kind of the same thing. I didn't. I was grasping the concept of being responsible for, for manpower and getting jobs done, but I didn't really know what responsibility actually came with the role as far as safe handling of consumables, rods not being left out, you know, uh, people's machines set within their parameters, id numbers written on everything they weld. It was all stuff like that right where, yeah, without the course you don't learn that stuff, right?
Speaker 1:well, and then you can really get yourself in trouble if something goes wrong. Right, and that's really what it all comes down to is is safety and and and what's the word I'm looking for accountability ability. Yeah, right, because when things go sideways in the shop, we're all a team, we all, you know, we're a brotherhood and a sisterhood in the shop trying to get work done. We look out for each other, but insurance companies don't care. You know like companies outside of you are looking to blame. So you got to have your eggs in a basket, all lined up, nice and clean, so that, if does something does happen somewhere down the line, you can protect yourself and your crew. Right, you want to protect your crew from going through some, because 99% of the time the issue it wasn't necessarily even yours, it was just something that got missed and handed down the line, and so you got to start looking at which hands were on the project, right?
Speaker 2:Exactly, and a lot of it too. In a shop you might get your. You know, you get your CWB audits, where your rep comes through and audits the shop.
Speaker 2:Well, not only here we have that, but we also have with the coast guard work. You got like coast guard coming through and auditing, then you got abs or lloyds whoever the surveyor is coming through and auditing, so there's always eyes on everything going on, right, so it it, it. It doesn't take much to drop the ball if you're not paying attention. Right, because not not everybody out there understands to the full extent of like what you as an individual might have to deal with. Right, they don't. They don't see it firsthand, right?
Speaker 1:and how many people are working in your crew right now, like how many people do you supervise?
Speaker 2:Right now I got 26 people under me.
Speaker 1:And does that ebb and flow? Does it go up and down? I mean, the nature of the shipyards that some people struggle with is that they are seasonal in a lot of aspects. Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I started I had seven people. When we were at our peak through the project run right now there was 36 people and I think we leveled out right now at around 26 people that hopefully can stay. Everybody's full-time, right, yeah, and we might get into it in a little bit, but finding people, uh, let me think about how I want to word this.
Speaker 2:um, you don't just get people that come in, that can do it everybody thinks they can come in here and do it, and then they get in into the ship or into a environment and it's a whole, it's reality checking it in's already for them, right. So a lot of time invested in in people building them up to the point where they're at not not just myself. I got other co-workers who have been here longer than me and again, we all support each other and and we uplift people and we bring them up to the best of their abilities.
Speaker 2:Right Cause I always say, when you start here, it's easy to go from here to here, but to get from here to here, that's, that's really the hardest part, right, it's that top 10%, you know they always say, it's always that top 10%.
Speaker 1:That's really hard to hit and when people are looking for like, as, as an employer, you're trying to hire, you're hiring for that top 10, the bottom, the bottom 90, everyone has, but you're looking for that top 10 and that's. I mean it's hard at the at this, at this point in the world, with the lack of kids that went into the trades for 30 years and now we're behind the ball. There's going to be a lot of training on site now going forward. I think that's just a fact. There's. There's no shipbuilding school that's going to give you your perfect students. That doesn't exist. We have to kind of just accept the reality that almost every person that comes into the shop, you're going to have to spend a significant amount of time training them to do the things that your company specifically does right which is kind of where my head set when, I would say about a year ago, was I?
Speaker 2:I was so and I still do, but I was so focused on finding that, that perfect resume, the unicorn, you know right. But it, I don't want to say it wasn't working out too well, but it wasn't going well. So I kind of shifted and I started hiring based on personalities because I kind of realized, hey, like we, we can teach this stuff. You know what I mean. We can get these people where we want to get them, but they gotta want it right, that's right. So I found hiring green with really good personality and eager was almost better than hiring somebody with 10, 15 years experience outside of shipbuilding who already comes in thinking that they might know everything and aren't open to learning. Is not so much the people here now, because we all respect each other, is bringing people from the outside in and kind of not really being taken too serious with the age I'm at. I'm only 28 years old, right?
Speaker 2:So, hiring somebody in their late 30s, early 40s, and just not understanding that just because I'm young doesn't mean I don't have the experience that you have, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you earned your job.
Speaker 2:It wasn't handed to you, so no it is what it is Right yeah, there's nothing there, nothing, nothing given out.
Speaker 1:For sure, everything was definitely worked for and earned yeah, and you know, I for myself, when I was young, I cut my teeth in a steel mill, um, and it was a. It was an environment similar to what you're saying and you know it. At the time I remember when I first started getting sent out there on shutdowns, it was like I mean grease and fire and it's like plus 80 and you're in tanks and it was all like. It was like I told everyone it's like the video game doom, like you play the video game doom. That was my work, that was where I would go to work every day is this dungeon of you know, and people die there every year and it's an unsafe environment and all these things and it's uh. But I stuck it out right and I've seen a lot of people come and go.
Speaker 1:Young welders just like me get jobs, uh, because the steel mill is like one of the highest paying jobs around here, um, and so it's like, yeah, right on, I can go out there for 50 bucks an hour when you're 18. That's amazing. They'd last a week and then they'd be like I'm never coming back, or it's too scary, or it's gross, or it sucks, or the shifts are terrible, because those type of jobs there is no set shifts. You start at seven in the morning. You might be leaving two days later. You don't know like it's.
Speaker 1:It is, what it is, um, but the crew that did stick around you, you know, myself and the other people that we did stick around, we all learned so much from that type of environment and the skills we picked up were so useful for the rest of our careers, cause you know, in that crew I've we've all stayed friends. You know, 30 years later we're all doing really well in the fields and we always talk when we get together. We talk about those jobs where you get to that 10% right, we stuck out the steel mill. Everyone picked up the 80% and ran. Maybe they got to 90% and ran, but we stuck it out and got that final 10% of experience. And after that we're fearless. You know they say you want to go out to the mine, no problem. You want to go out to this, no problem. Because we did our time in a really difficult environment and now we're confident and we have the and almost everything seems easy after that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it almost comes naturally right.
Speaker 1:Once you, once you, once you hit that point, it's like oh, I know what I got to do here, right, yeah, yeah and you're not afraid and you can start like already you look at a, you look at a job and you're already in your head making a tool list, being like oh, okay, I'm gonna have to grab a couple clamps, I'm gonna have to these. Oh, I'm gonna have to gouge that I'm gonna have to grab. Oh, where's the machine? Okay, well, I'm gonna need a machine. Okay, oh, I'm gonna need at least this. Oh, I don't know if we can do that stainless, that dang it. We're gonna need a plasma. You know like you start doing those things in your head automatically. And that doesn't have anything to do with age, man, like you said, some people in their fifties have been in the trade for 40 years, 30 years. They don't got that.
Speaker 2:They may never have that and a lot of guys don't want it either, right, that's right, that's right. They don't think. A lot of people don't really understand the added. Yeah, really understand the added. Uh, yeah, like for me, the another big learning was uh, man, going home physically tired from work is a lot different than going home mentally tired from work, because your brain never shuts off. Sometimes you drive it home from work like you said what do I need for the next day, like you're always planning, right yeah, that is so true.
Speaker 1:I struggle with that today. I was just watching a video this morning because I'm always trying to learn stuff, and I was watching some YouTube videos on time management this morning as I was having my coffee and the lady doing the. It was on TikTok. The lady doing the TikTok thing on time management she's like I'm going to talk about my schedule this week and this is my schedule, and then she's like talking about the things she does throughout the day. And then I came and looked at my schedule this morning right before we got on this call, and I was like I'm doing this wrong because I got, because I got like 600 things today, like I don't know what the I'm doing, like how do you handle time management?
Speaker 2:because that's tough man I try to prioritize the quickest tasks first and then uh kind of pick my way through that throughout the day and you know uh delegate as well. You know I got lead hands and uh stuff like that and people who who want responsibility. So you know, if there's something I don't really need to directly be involved with, I can just task individuals with it and check up at the end of the day or halfway through the day and kind of roll things. That way it seems to work right.
Speaker 1:Well, that's really smart because that's something that a lot of people really struggle with doing, Something that you said so easily delegate. Delegate means trust, right, and a lot of people struggle with trusting others into their job. You know, did you always kind of have that trusting framework? Did you learn that along the way? Where did you get kind of that leadership style?
Speaker 2:I was I was provide. Yeah, I've been doing a lot of like one-on-one professional development and the company's provided for. I been doing a lot of, uh, like a one-on-one professional development and the company's provided for, I'd say, about two years now.
Speaker 2:And then we have like mentorship groups and whatnot uh once every two weeks Awesome. So, um, a lot of people definitely weren't open to it, but I was always open arm to it. I I feel like that's definitely been the biggest, uh, biggest advancement in my career was definitely having the opportunity to, to uh be a part of something like that being able to talk and and, uh where I see myself next and and and stuff like that. And not only learning you know delegation skills and stuff like that, but just uh understanding people's personalities and how to manage people and realizing that, um, everybody doesn't have the same management style. You need to. You need to be open to uh treating and talking to others the same well, at the end of the day, still getting your point across and getting what you want out of them, right, yeah, that's very very learned really quick because I I would say at the beginning I I was maybe categorized everyone right and then kind of realized that that wasn't really getting me anywhere really quick.
Speaker 2:More with the new hires because with the people that were already here we had already kind of had like respect and trust for each other. Very the last year and a half was definitely adapting my leadership style and and and evolving. It was a huge part and where I'm at right now.
Speaker 1:Well, that's awesome and yeah, we're gonna get more into that, but this is a great time for a break. So we're gonna take a quick break here from justin, here from ontario shipyards, and we'll be right back here on the cwb association podcast. After these words from our sponsors, don't go anywhere. Looking for top quality welding machines and accessories, look no further than CannaWeld. Based in Vaughan, ontario, cannaweld designs, assembles and tests premium welding machines right here in Canada. Our products are CSA certified and Ontario made approved, reflecting our unwavering commitment to excellence. Count on us for superior service that's faster and more efficient than market competitors. Whether you're in aerospace, education or any other precision welding industry, cannaweld has the perfect welding solution for you. Visit cannaweldcom today to discover why professionals rely on CannaWeld for their welding needs. Cannaweld where precision meets reliability in welding. Enjoy peace of mind with our four-year warranty on most machines. Conditions do apply.
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Speaker 1:And we are back here on the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Ceron, as always with you from the CWB Association, and here we have Justin Smith coming to us from Ontario Shipyards. So we're talking about, before the break, leadership styles, and I do so. I give training on leadership styles. It's one of the things that I was professionally trained on a while ago and I really got into it because I had, you know, there's stories I always tell, but I had a lot of bad bosses, you know, and when you have a few bad bosses, you definitely remember what a bad leadership style is like. Right, you definitely see how bad leadership can affect your daily life.
Speaker 1:I remember driving to work as a 24, 25 year old welder, going up to the, to the shop, and I had two babies at home and all the pressure of the world on me, uh, to provide and I'd have to pull over cause I'd be crying. I, like, hated my job. I hated my life. Everything was terrible. And it wasn't welding that I hated, it was actually my boss. And that's what it came down to is what a huge experience that put on me to be like, if I ever get the opportunity to be a boss or to start leading people or to start running companies. I got to keep that in check because we all have it in us to be mean. We all have it in us to be short. We all have it in us to lose our temper. These are natural. We're humans, right, Things happen. And plus we get pressured as supervisors from our bosses to get stuff done and to be on the ball. So you know it's a long process.
Speaker 1:On the leadership side, you know, when I was welding I I got to that 10 I'd say within 10 years. I was probably about as good a welder as I was ever going to get. I'd worked a lot of different industries, I did a lot of cool things and I was pretty comfortable with whatever situation you dropped me in, but when I would, you know, when I went to leadership. I was in my seventh year welding when I started my first company and I started getting into leading. I realized that that train is way longer and you can be a leader. That's okay. But to get to that 10% leader where you're like a good leader and you know what's up and you're confident you know what to say, that takes a while.
Speaker 2:That's definitely still something I'm learning every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah and honestly, like I'm learning every day. Yeah, and honestly, like I'm coming up on 15. I've been doing it for a long time and I'm still learning stuff all the time. Like I said, I'm still watching youtube videos in the morning being like what can I do better? And I think that's a part about being a good leader is that you realize that you gotta keep learning right?
Speaker 2:yeah, you gotta change with the times as well, too. Right, like leadership style these days, as opposed to you know, even five to ten years ago, is completely different right, dealing with entirely different generation, right? So do you feel like you're more?
Speaker 1:like you must have an advantage, like if it was you versus me. 49 years old, gen x, and they tell me, go lead a bunch of 22 year olds. And then we have you. You're a millennial, 28 years old, you know, or are you a late millennial or an early?
Speaker 2:I would be at the last year. 96 was a cut off.
Speaker 1:I'm a 96, so yeah so you're just on your you're, you're a baby millennial, um. Do you feel like you would interact and lead better? Would you be in a better trust position with youth than me? I mean, you don't know how I lead, but just arbitrarily.
Speaker 2:I definitely think there's an advantage just because I may be able to relate a little bit better, I think for myself. An advantage that I believe I have is I was raised by my grandparents, right. So I a big part of me definitely really does have that that very old school mentality, old school drive. But then I also have the side where, you know, I can, like I said, I can relate with people my generation, people younger than me, right, whereas, uh, which did take a lot to fall back on, what I said when I figured out that I had to start changing my leadership style was because at the beginning I was very, uh, very like how you were probably led and how I was led to begin with, right, and I kind of realized that that wasn't getting me far with some of these new people. Yeah, just shut up and do it. Yeah, exactly, I don't want to hear any excuses, just get it done, right, but it doesn't work like that anymore, right?
Speaker 1:well and it didn't really work that well before. We just did it. We just did it. But you look at the track record shops are more efficient now. They get more work done now. The systems that were put in place over the last 20 years for safety, for productivity they work, they work, it does work right.
Speaker 1:People can dig in their heels all they want, and this is what I'd say to old guys that were being stubborn. It's like you know, when they put seatbelts in cars, you complain, you complain, you complain, but at the end of the day, we know that they work right. So it's on you, it's on you to be either get on the train or get off, right and people like to be heard too, right, yeah, we know that.
Speaker 2:I think that goes a long way when you just let people know how they're doing, or you know, uh like positive feedback, also sometimes negative feedback, but regardless like, um, yeah, never take credit for anybody else's work and uh, make sure that they know, even if it's every day. You're just telling everybody how good they're doing and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:It definitely goes a long way with people now, what about the seasonal nature of your industry? You know, um, a lot of welding across the country is seasonal because we're canada, you know we have winters, we have summers. They make for different industry turnarounds. Saskatchewan, our busy time is the spring, straight up like. As soon as that snow defrosts, everything ramps up to a million percent. The shipyards have their own seasons that they they run on, based off, I assume, also weather and high times. Um, how does that affect your work on on? Is there times of the year where you're twiddling thumbs and and then there's there times, years, where your hair's on fire, or is it pretty steady all year around?
Speaker 2:uh, the last couple years have been pretty steady. We've been fortunate to uh have ended up with a few vles, uh vessel life extensions. So for the last two years in the hamilton yard we've been pretty steady as far as keeping people on and work year-round and, uh, as we're coming to an end on this port, weller has a vle for the terry fox and saint catherine's. So but with both yards kind of being within like a half an hour drive from each other, if we start to slow down here there's the opportunity to go there, vice versa we do fabrication work in the shop here for them.
Speaker 2:So I I think you've kind of seen the tide change a little bit within ontario shipyards for uh being able to uh not have to worry about seasonal work and the work just being there. But when I started, yeah, it was definitely. You know you were busy from about december till april or may and then it was like a lull, like uh what do we?
Speaker 1:you know, every day was uh wondering what you were going to do the next day yeah, you know in saskatchewan that lulls usually around september, october, right before christmas, and it's the worst because we always got our layoffs like right before christmas. I don't like that's the worst time to lay someone off, like, come on, wait till after Christmas. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:But, it's like a Saskatchewan thing. It's like, oh, get laid off on December the 20th, yippee. You know. Like now with the growth of Ontario Shipyards, like I mean, I remember meeting Sean Padulo I don't know if he's still there as boss, but he was a couple years ago and Heddle at the time was just starting to kind of like ramp up. They had just gotten one of the new shipyards, they were just starting to kind of grow big and I remember him talking to me about like where are we going to find welders and trades people to fill these jobs? How has that struggle been for you as a supervisor on the floor to make sure that you have? Like we talked about trying to find that perfect resume. You're not gonna, I mean, and if you do, pay them all the money you got, crap them. But if you but you know they're one in a hundred, if you as a supervisor now concerned about the product that's got to go out the door, how's hiring for you now? How tough is it?
Speaker 2:It's definitely still hard.
Speaker 2:We had a couple good programs with Mohawk College here where we had about two or three rounds of it, 12 people per round and of course not everybody made it. But I would say out of the 34 to 35 people in the end total that tufted out, we ended up with one, two, about six to seven really really good trades people out of it, whether it be an electrician, a miller or a welder, just putting putting skill aside and um hiring based on personality and um and pairing them up with the right person and uh, letting them see that they really do have a future in the industry and that you know you can make a good living doing this and uh, hopefully they choose to to tough it out and and ride it out and um hang around right, because I think that's that's.
Speaker 2:One thing I always have to understand is you can make somebody as good as you want to make them. That doesn't mean they're gonna stay right, that's right yeah right it's got to be a two-way street.
Speaker 2:There's got to be something worth staying for, right yeah, which I've had a of good people leave the last year and a half. That essentially came in with no experience that by the time they had left they were really, really starting to kind of get into that 60, 70% range. Yeah and um. But you know nothing but positivity when they left and nothing but good things to say about both the company and myself.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and you. And that's the way to do it right. You don't ever burn a bridge, either going on or coming off.
Speaker 2:Um and especially being young, that the two that we we lost were, you know, 20, 21 years old and, like you said earlier, like for me to now be like a supervisor or boss is like. Hopefully I'll leave an impression that like hey, I was their first supervisor, so you know that'll go a long way with them. It sits good with me knowing that I'm respected as much as I'm respected by them when they leave.
Speaker 1:It's a part of their growth. You're a piece of that. We talked about having a bad boss, but I remember all my good bosses for sure. I remember the good people I worked with that took me under their wing and helped me. I'll never forget them. They gave me the inspiration to be better and lots of times when I was lacking confidence that confidence that I needed, came from them. They were like oh, you can do this, get in there, you're fine. And it's like yeah, okay, you know, if they believe in me, they're probably right. They're not going to throw me somewhere to fail, because that's not good for anybody. So you know it should work out Now. I never disrespect anyone for bouncing from a job. I do have some lines, though. I feel like if you're going to take on a new job and you're willing to get hired by a company and you went through the process, I feel like you owe them a year.
Speaker 1:I feel like at least a year. Two to three is kind of my window for like feeling it out. Like if you don't like your job right away, like you just don't like it, leave immediately. Like, don't waste your time, just get out, being like sorry, it's not for me, I want to do something else Bounce, no hard feelings. Once you stay a year, I feel like it's worth sticking it out for the skills.
Speaker 1:It takes about two to three years to pick up the skills from any shop. And if you're going to bounce, fine, bounce. But soak up as much of the skills as you can before you bounce, so that you are at least more useful to your next employer. Right, I don't ever diss anyone on that because I've bounced lots. I usually would do about five to seven years at any given job, but now that I'm coming up on 50, that's quite a few jobs now in my life, right, like so they start to stack up.
Speaker 1:But all of them was like you said you don't want to burn the bridges, you want to be good on the way out and definitely take something with you. So even when you're talking to young people, they they're like oh, where did you go? You know how do I get a job. I want to work where you work. It's like well, number one, you're not going to be able to work where I work because you're not there yet. But I started in these fields. Go try there Right, cause you can still help them. Like, even if you leave the shipyards 20 years from now, you can still tell people like hey, the shipyards are a great place to start. You'll learn these skills. You'll still be able to be an advocate for the industry even without being in it, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and like yeah, I would say my biggest when I look back on my whole career development was starting. A national steel car was huge for me because it was just eight to nine hours a day, helmet down, running flux right so by the time I had come here I had two and a half three years with production welding with flux core.
Speaker 2:That that wasn't really a skill that I had to hone in when I came here. It was just learning how to adapt to this environment right, which didn't take long at all, really no. Flux cores are very forgiving water very forgiving I think people think it's harder than it is. It's really probably the easiest process there is well, it's just the root.
Speaker 1:A lot of people fail the root because they try to lay it in too heavy. Just just small beads. Guys, don't go. You don't need to lay a half inch bead in one shot. Let me tell you this right now you don't, it can, but you don't need to lay a half inch bead in one shot.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you this right now you don't, it can, but you don't have to.
Speaker 1:So now, what do you see for yourself going forward? You're still young as man, 28 years old. You know like you got a pretty good job here with, with the company. You know what's next on your list. What kind of training are you looking to do? What? What kind of you know's next on your list? What kind of training?
Speaker 2:are you looking to do what? What kind of you know things are you trying to get to? So, january, I'm gonna go do my level one. I've kind of taken a side to that. I I really enjoy the, the, the quality side of things. So I think, january, there's a hybrid course coming up. I'm gonna go do my level one for inspection yeah, good inspection and then, uh, yeah, it's two year wait. Then you can do your level two and then level three. So I definitely want to go down that, uh, that avenue. I don't really see myself doing anything other than chip repair and chip building kind of kind of love it now yeah, I, I love it.
Speaker 2:It's. I'm 20. Well, yeah, it's been seven years now, right? So my whole, like youth adulthood, whatever you want to call it's been been this I, I, I could restart, but I, I can't see myself again. I, I like it too much. I like the people, I like the environment. If you like it, stay right if you like it, stay right.
Speaker 1:That that's the you like. That's the other side of the unicorn, right? It's like the unicorn job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I left. What was it? It would have been five years, six years ago now. Actually, I left, I think I was gone for two and a half weeks. I hated it. I went to some shop inside and I was like yo, this sucks. I don't like the environment.
Speaker 1:I don't like the pace.
Speaker 2:I don't like the environment, I don't like the pace, I don't like anything about this right Like I ended up coming back.
Speaker 1:I did that, although my stint was about a year and a half, but I went into like fine metal construction, so we're talking like medicine counters, pharmaceutical equipment, process piping. I hated it, coming from the mining industry where everything I was working on was huge and these giant multi-ton projects and massive equipment and 100-ton cranes and stuff like that, to be in an environment where I'm working with 22-gauge stainless, you know and I got to form it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's completely different.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought I'd love it because it would be new, but I just realized that I just don't really like working on thin materials I want to do the big stuff for me it was the fitting right away because after about two, two and a half years here, when I started, I had really, like you said earlier, I don't think I kind of felt like I don't think there was any better I could have gotten with the welding. I had figured it out to the point where I don't think I was ever going to get any better with it and, um, I I started taking on like the fitting, like cutting, lossing, putting a big side shell inserts and just the rush, the rush from it, ripping a chain fall and firing a blade in.
Speaker 2:It was like yeah, there's nothing like it, right? So when I lost that it was like, oh, dude, like I. Yeah, I realized like why I was there and like, what about the dopamine? I guess you can call it right it's. It's too much fun once you, once you get comfortable with it and you get proficient with it.
Speaker 1:Man, it's just you don't want to do anything else man being a good problem solver on site is like superman status, right, like it feels so good when you come up to something and you're like, what kind of a dog's breakfast we got going on here, right, and eight hours later you've hammered and cut and tacked and welded this thing into place and it looks like it was brand new and you're like, yeah, that feels good, especially when you know that you know your boss thought it was going to take, you know, two days and you got it done in eight hours Cause you had a couple of tricks, you know, if we just put in here, here or an eyelet here, and when you get a come along, we'll slam it in, and you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good, it's, it's, it's fun.
Speaker 1:And then it's it's a lot of it always different right now with the inspection, do you think?
Speaker 2:your role at the company would change. Are you looking to get more into a qc role?
Speaker 1:with the company. I would or just add it to kind of like your list, kind of add it to the resume, just have it right kind of understand it more.
Speaker 2:Right, not not to say maybe further down the road, but I think right now, now, with where I'm at and leading people and building relationships, I'm quite content with the role I'm in right now.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. And what about, uh, travel? You know like, shipyards have you ever thought about? You know like, oh, I could go work in singapore or something, because I I do know buddies that have done that right I'd have to get my passport first you can't even cross the border. No, I think I've been to florida once so you're happy where you are there in southern ontario.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as long as the work keeps coming in, then I, uh, I think I'll stay here for now, well, from what I see, uh, you know, the maritime industry for canada is on an upswing.
Speaker 1:Um, I attend the meritech conference almost every year and go kind of see what all the shipyards are doing around canada and the world. Um, and you know, in the world there's massive ones like the ones in canada are babies compared to other countries. Oh yeah, you can't even compare. No, you can't even compare. But we do solid work and they're busy and we do a lot of niche stuff, like we do a lot of the, we do a lot of maintenance and a lot of countries don't bother with, they just want to build new and get them out of there. So you know that that maintenance angle which I learned in the mines, you can build a whole life, a whole career just off maintenance, because it's needed forever, right?
Speaker 2:so yeah, it's like, it's almost like being uh it honestly it's almost like being a mechanic, really, because they're always gonna need work done and and you know they're always ran hard and put away wet.
Speaker 1:Well, they do treat those boats pretty rough. Man. It's like oh, maybe we should go around this thing. No, they're going to go through it. Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll let them find the problems.
Speaker 1:And what about the support in your local industry, like, do you is ontario shipyards, you know, do you guys do open houses? Do you guys do um? Like you said, you ran some programs for hiring. What's the kind of stuff that ontario shipyards is doing to kind of stay like active in their community?
Speaker 2:definitely big with mohawk right now. As far as running programs, I know they they've invested some in um and uh. There's like a shipbuilding training course at mohawk where they touch on it and they kind of go through all the aspects of it. I forget how long that's for cracked, for theory, and then they come in to the yard for practical oh cool. So yeah, we've done three rounds of that now, which has definitely been a huge help. There's um I forget the name of it off the top of my head, but there's a program actually tomorrow and uh, wednesday in both hamilton and port weller where there's about 40 people in total coming in to do some welding. Walk around, see the mechanical side of things, the no right side of things, and whatnot.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I guess you could call it an open house, really getting eyes on it right, because it's not like a lot of other trades where, like construction for example, you drive down the road, you see somebody building a house or you see them building a building right. You don't just get to really drive in here and see what's going on, right yeah, most of the stuff's kind of like confidential or secret too there's a lot that you can't show the public no, yeah, it's, it's not, it's.
Speaker 1:You can't, yeah, you can't just be walking around filming and then taking it showing all your buddies and everything right so uh, I know I did a tour at c-span and I was like wanting to take pictures and they're like no, not that, no, not that, no, not that.
Speaker 2:I'm like but that's all the coolest stuff like I've had a couple buddies in here throughout the years, where you know you're hanging out on the weekends or you're hanging out after work and you're talking about what you're, what you're doing, and then, um, like other Walders, like my friends, and then you get them in here and you know within the first week you're like oh man, like oh, this is like this is actually what you do.
Speaker 1:This is crazy, like it's different, right like you actually were courageous enough to hire friends. Man, I've only ever hired a couple of my friends yeah, I'll never do it again yeah, I had to fire them right away. It was no good. They're like way too slow. You guys are too slow. Get out of here yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, it puts a wedge in relationships, that's for sure, but yeah I always tell people yeah, don't hire your friends.
Speaker 1:It's always a bad idea. Take away from today. And for my friends that are listening, you know what you did. You know who you are. Yeah, you know who you are. It's not wasn't my fault, all right. It's like I tried to prepare you. You weren't ready. Well, you know who you are. It wasn't my fault, all right. Like I tried to prepare you. You weren't ready, well, you know, this has been an awesome, awesome interview. Well, if you, you know for as a wrap-up, or a couple questions for a wrap-up, you know for yourself who kind of just came into this and kind of worked your way into this job. For the people that are younger or looking to transition careers and they're thinking about shipyards, they really know nothing about shipyards, but let me tell you, they're hiring like crazy across Canada for shipyards. What are some of the skills that they should start working on now? If they're thinking about getting into a shipyard, you know how do they start creeping up on that 10% that you're looking for to hire what?
Speaker 2:are those skills being a sponge, honestly observing, listening, taking everything in I yeah, it's kind of a hard one to answer. I think if there's people out there that that do want to get into this industry at a young age, I would say come apply and, uh, start out as a labor welder helper and um ask lots of questions, take everything in and um, start from the bottom and work your way up, because there's a lot of people here that'll help you get to that 10 that we need you to be at you just need to be open to wanting to get yourself there and what about someone experienced, let's say and you gave me this example earlier someone that's tough to work with, and I totally understand what you mean?
Speaker 1:like, uh, that that welder that was perhaps a steam fitter for 15 years, and then they come and they apply for a job, so, so they're very, very good at welding, steam piping, right, and that's kind of been their gig for 10 years and they get hired at Ontario Shipyards. They come onto your crew and that's not really the skill you need. Right, you need some different skills out of them. What are some of those skills that you think that should be just a standard? Like you got to know how to do opposition flux core you said there's some stick that's involved, fabrication, like what are some of these? More like tactile skills? I would say, like, put these on your list. Or if you don't know these and you're coming to apply, you need to understand that.
Speaker 2:you need to learn them yeah, a lot of cutting and washing air gouging, all position, welding and uh, and I think the keyword would be uh, not all position, but out of position.
Speaker 2:Right, we're not uncomfortable welding yeah, we're not standing on our feet all the time. Right, so, and just being open to change, right, taking what you already know, because you never want to take away from anyone there's people out there with a lot more experience than I have right, right, just, uh, taking everything you know and and realizing that it's a new environment, and learning how to apply your skills to this environment to be the best you can be.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. And what about the future of shipyards? You know in your experience now I've been there for almost what are you seven years? You said you've been there almost now. Yeah, seven, going on eight years. Yeah, you know how does the future look for anyone coming into the. You said that you've gotten better with layoffs. Is it pretty steady work going forward? Do you recommend people coming to apply?
Speaker 2:It's super steady at this point. I would definitely, if it's a trade you want to get into in an industry you want to get into, I I think now is the time with um, with how much it's even going to grow over the next, say, say, two, three years. Right, uh, it's uh, we're still a fairly tight-knit small work workforce, but in two or three years we could double or triple. So I would say now is the time to get your foot in the door and uh, seeing if it's for yourself well, post covid, we're learning lots about that.
Speaker 1:I was just in toronto last week and talking to some of the guys in the nuclear and power generation industries and they got contracts for work that go out to 2036. Like I mean, we're talking over 10 years of work already signed on the dotted line and something like 20 billion dollars a year investment over the next 12 years 260 billion dollars. It's something crazy right now for all these young welders, young trades, people coming up. Keep your ears open, hone those skills, because we got lots of work coming for you. We need you, so you know you. Come into these shops. Realize that you're going to have to do time. Realize that there's going to be shift work. Realize that there's going to be long evenings and long mornings.
Speaker 1:This is life, this is the work. But also know that it's going to be there for you. On the reverse, it's going to pay for your houses. It's going to pay for your life and your family. Give you that security and the benefits that you need. So this is something we were talking about in Toronto. How much welding could be such a useful tool in the GTA when things are so expensive. This is one of the only jobs that will actually pay you enough. It is To have a life.
Speaker 2:You know it is and and I, I, I think, I'd like, I like to think that we're coming up on the verge of, uh, you know, uh, another, uh like a, a boom for my generation, right, I, I think I I had just missed that window for for out west and everything like that. That I I think, uh, hopefully, hopefully, and uh, by this time next year we're we're talking about another boom, right, and uh, there's an opportunity to hop on something like that right.
Speaker 1:Well, if you can ride a boom, do it. Man, like I'm, I live out west. I've been a part of a few booms now and, uh, don't take it for granted. If you know, right, if the booms come and ride it, get on it, milk it for all it's worth, because they don't last forever.
Speaker 2:No, they don't. And be smart about it, right Learn how to save money during it and don't burn any bridges along the way right, right.
Speaker 1:And Canada has had booms all across the country at different times, right Like the automotive boom. Put a lot of people in Ontario into nice houses and set them up for life, and then it died. That's the nature that's to nice houses and set them up for life, and then it died. That's the nature. That's also important for trades people to know that booms are generally eight to ten years maximum, so don't get in a boom, be the unicorn and think this is the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gotta be smart gotta have a backup plan, you know like, don't let the lifestyle get carried away, right, because you'll have nothing to begin we saw that so much here in the saskatch.
Speaker 1:Hey, all you young tradespeople, you know I understand partying's fun. I get it. It's nice to have a pocket full of cash with your buddies. I get it, I've done it. But don't get into yourself in debt. Don't get like. I mean I had so many friends during the last boom buy a huge house and a big truck and plus they're partying a thousand bucks a week at the casino. Huge house and a big truck and plus they're parting a thousand bucks a week at the casino. And yeah, they were able to do that for a few years, but then the, the, the boom is over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it dries up, it dries up.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's not like we don't, cause we're still welders, so we just go back to being normal. So instead of making 80 bucks an hour, we go back to making 50 bucks an hour. Well, you know, for most of the population that's not such a wah-wah story, like you're still making good money, but for the people that are used to spending 80 bucks an hour, yeah, it's a whole different it's a whole different lifestyle, that's right.
Speaker 1:Right, You're selling trucks now You're selling the boat. You might be, and hopefully you don't ruin your family life, Like I mean. Be smart, play the long game. You know there's a long time before retirement, so do what you can. Definitely All right, man. Well, this has been an awesome interview. Anything you'd like to say to anybody or any?
Speaker 2:shout-outs before we go. No, I think that wraps it up for me, other than if there is anybody out there who's young and eager, uh, yeah, send over a resume and uh, let's, uh, come get your foot in the door.
Speaker 1:Awesome man. You know, um, ambition is everything. You can't train ambition. So, like you said earlier, if you're hungry, let that hunger lead you, because it'll keep you moving forward. That's the one thing we look forward all, all us hirers, leaders um skills, I can train you. I can train you in a lot of things, but ambition I cannot. So you know, uh, like justin said, if you're eager and you want to really keep moving forward which also means sacrificing things on your end then you know, look into. You know, look into the shipyards, look into the at Ontario shipyards here, cause I know they're hiring. I think I you know one of our CSRs, matthew Keep. He's always down there doing stuff with you guys.
Speaker 2:I know Matthew well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he's always telling us about all the great stuff you're doing, so I know that it's happening. So Google them, find out, I don't know. Do you know the website?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it should be ontarioshipyardscom. All right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, so easy they post their jobs on there. Awesome Thanks, justin. Anything else? Any last words of wisdom for the population?
Speaker 2:No, I think I'll leave it at that this was good.
Speaker 1:I was nervous coming into it, but that was fun Well just a couple of welders talking.
Speaker 1:It's not hard. So, yeah, no, awesome. Well for everybody that's been downloading and watching and following the podcast, thank you so much. We're well over 50,000 downloads now. We've recorded past our 200th episode, so make sure you check those specials. We got the Fab Tech shows rolling out now. We are going hard. We're going to be in Nashville recording in the next week here, so those will be coming up probably in the new year. We've got lots of good interviews coming from there and we're just trying to do what's best for the industry, support the industry and make sure we keep this industry that has made us be successful strong for all of you. So keep downloading, sharing and commenting and also send in fan mail. We love it. Any DMs, we love it. We love to answer it all. So take care and I'll catch you at the next episode. We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 3:You've been listening to the CWB association welding podcast with max. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced by the cw CWB Group and presented by Max Home, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.