The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 213 with John Marshall and Max Ceron
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world and unrepresented communities as we continue to strive for a more diverse workforce. Join us as we celebrate National Volunteer Month to showcase the incredible contributions of our Chapter Executives from across Canada and globally.
From Newfoundland to the shipyards of Halifax, John Marshall's four-decade welding journey represents not just a career but a masterclass in adaptability, craftsmanship, and the pursuit of excellence. Beyond technical expertise, John shares wisdom about mentorship, inspection philosophy, and finding fulfillment in quality work. His current volunteer efforts with the CWB Association continue his commitment to advancing the trade and supporting newcomers.
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin. Attention, welders in Canada looking for top quality welding supplies, look no further than canada welding supply. With a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear and consumables. Cws has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part all podcast listeners listeners get 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Can you believe that? Use code CWB10 at checkout when placing your next order, visit CanadaWeldingSupplyca now. Canada Welding Supply, your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Hello and welcome to another edition of the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Saron and, as always, I'm out there trying to find the coolest stories I can find, high and low, east, to west, north, south, wherever I can. And this time I'm taking you all the way to the east, to beautiful Halifax, nova Scotia, where my good friend John Marshall is. John, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:today I'm doing excellent, Max. A little bit of a weather bomb here, but nobody worries about the weather.
Speaker 1:No, we were just talking. You know, here in Saskatchewan we got our blizzards last week. Now we're sitting in minus 30s and minus 40s. You guys are getting the snow this week, but I don't think you're going to get the minus 40s like we do.
Speaker 2:We don't get there, but we get. Uh. Nova scotia gets the fluctuation it gets. Uh. It went from minus 14 now. It's raining here now and then it's gonna drop below zero at six o'clock tomorrow morning and everything will be frozen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah so. So let's start at the beginning here. John, you know because I've known you, but I never I guess I've never sat you down and asked for the life story. So this is going to be interesting for me because I've known you professionally and we've had a lot of fun together. But you know for yourself, let the people know. You know where did you start. You've been in the industry a long, long time, well before me. So where were you born? Let's start at the start. Long time, well before me. So where were you born? Let's start at the start. Can you see this shirt, max?
Speaker 2:no, I can just see your head you'd have to stand up to see this shirt fog town. Okay, that's st john's, newfoundland okay I was uh born there and uh I uh wasn't a very good student in uh going up through the. I cared more about about women and hockey than school books. I can tell you that up through high school. But I got out of school and I did some barricading. I worked for my father for a bit and everything. And then I worked with this guy Interesting enough, his name was Scab Power.
Speaker 1:Scab Power, scab Power, scab Power.
Speaker 2:Scab Power and he was about my age but he used to do body work on courage, and I'm talking polybon and chicken wire you know, but I liked it.
Speaker 2:So I went to College of Trades and Tech and I applied this is in the late 70s and I applied for auto body. They said, well, you only need grade eight for that. You got your high school. And I said yes. And they said, well, that's filled up every year very fast. I said, well, what's related? And they said welding. So I applied for welding, didn't get in. The next year I went back again to apply for auto body mechanics. They said what did you apply for? Last year? I said welding. And uh, they said, well, you're better off, you got a better chance to get in for welding. So I applied for welding again. I didn't know what. I didn't know what an arc was or an oxy-acetylene torch, I didn't know why. You know scab used chicken wire and pop rivets. So I did. I went into welding and from the first day I fell in love with it and absorbed it. And again, I wasn't a good student in high school but, uh, I absorbed everything about the welding that I could.
Speaker 1:So that was in 79.
Speaker 2:I started there.
Speaker 1:Well, let's, let's stop there for a second. You know, did you have any trades experience in your family? You know, did you grow up knowing about the trades you know in in in Newfoundland? Did you? Was it on your radar? You know as, as a possibility?
Speaker 2:Zero. Yeah, radar you know as as a possibility zero. Yeah, my uncle was a carpenter, uh, and he did mostly renovations at the federation building. But other than that, my, my grandfather, was a mechanic. He worked for ford canada for 59 years and I'm wow, that's not a mistake 59 years. So mechanics is in our blood and that was about it. I mean my father. I've been changing brakes, uh, since I'm about 13. My father'd stand up and fold his arms and jack up the care, take, you know, take the spring off and put so.
Speaker 1:But other than that. No, no, all right, so then. So then you're in the welding program my late 70, 70s here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really liked it. And then somebody came down to recruit from the Halifax Dockyard, which people get the Halifax Dockyard and the Irving Shipyards mixed up, but the Dockyard maintains military vessels and Irving builds ships and does other stuff. So they came down and they recruited and I was lucky enough to get an interview and then they flew me to Halifax Back then it was manpower and they flew me on manpower dime up for the interview and I obviously had a successful interview. And.
Speaker 2:I was. I don't even know where I was working then, max. But I came home. Maybe I was still in Frasier. But I came home and my sister said there's an envelope for you. You got the job. And my mother said how do you know my sister, pat? She's an engineer. And she said mom said how do you know he got the job? You didn't open the envelope. She said if it was a rejection letter it'd be one sheet. This was about a half inch thick, so she knew I had the job in Halifax. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's documents to sign in there. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Map and everything. So July 7th 1980, I walked into the dockyard and never looked back for over 40 or over 34 years, just over 34. And I do. A little later we'll talk about a lot about the all the learnings that I had in the dock with a great apprenticeship and whatnot. And then so that was 40 or 34 plus years, retired at 55, way too young to retire. And now I'm 65 and talking to Max and enjoying it.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad, I'm glad, but you know, if we go back, you know, one of the things that people often think about when they think of the Maritimes out East is the lack of work or the unsteady nature of the work out East, it's going to be either shipyards or mining. It's kind of going to be one of the two. And the mines are up and down. They've closed, they've opened. They've closed, they've opened shipyards They've changed has a few times. But irving and halifax shipyards have been around, you know, back and forth for for a while, for a long time now saint john and brother can well that's right.
Speaker 1:That's right. So yeah, for yourself, you know, getting into the shipyard business at such an early age here you know you're talking 1980 was it for you something that you knew right away? Like I'm going to try to stay on here forever because you must have seen lots of layoffs come and go and lots of turns in the industry over 34 years, my friend first, you're exactly right.
Speaker 2:And uh, so we started july 7th, as I said, and uh, we had, we signed, three days of signing papers about the government owns your mine, and this is real. They say, well, you invent something, you don't own it, we own it Up to five years, and all this and we signed union papers and credit union and safety. It was just three days, really, of orientation. So then you get into it. And I did go home the first christmas, which was obviously december of 1980, and I went over to see my next door neighbor, uh, one of my good buddies, and his father was sitting in the chair and I said, yeah, I can retire when I'm 55 and doug was the father and he got up he said you're not even have your feet wet yet and you're talking about retirement.
Speaker 2:But it was real and it did bring me a good retirement at 55. But when Doug died, doug Sr diedI reiterated that story and it brought the house down because they knew the father and everything right. But anyway, yeah, so yeah, um the apprenticeship, it started at 70 percent of the journey person's wages, so every six months we got a five percent raise and then, which was great, and then after three years, uh, you're at journey person's wages and then we had a premium.
Speaker 2:Then if you did high pressure pipe welding, you got 42 cents extra an hour, I think. But there was a lineup for that, it was.
Speaker 1:You were yeah, you're at the bottom of that list.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you were the elite if you were a pipe welder. And then another category was submarine welding, which a submarine classifies as a pressure vessel. So that was my door. I never did get my pipe tickets but I did get my submarine high pressure and that was like a little bonus. There and again, lots of stories. I'll talk about submarines in a in a little bit. But uh, it's, it's. Uh.
Speaker 2:I started in 80, welded for three years in the apprenticeship. Then I did a year. You had to, you couldn't weld on the submarine until you welded for a year out as a, a year as a journey person. As a journey person, yep, and that was a full training in inclined verticals and 110-18s, which are very fluid, as you know. Yep, all stick welding then.
Speaker 2:And then in 87, there was a competition from a boss, a charge hand, and we thought the older hands would apply for it. But it was a miserable job. You know, it was really a miserable job. So I had two co-workers that applied and I just said, well, I'm throwing my hat in. I had never expected to win it. And I just said, well, I'm throwing my hat in, I had never expected to win it. So in 87, october of 87, I became a charge hand and almost 10 years to the month, I'll say, there was a competition for a hull surveyor, which is an inspector, and it was so, I said seven years of actual field welding, 10 years of boss, and then the rest of my career was as an inspector, as an inspector yeah, now, when you look back, you know, like to the day you started as a, you know green, as green can be as green as the kelp on the side of the ocean.
Speaker 1:There you know, you're, and you you start coming up in this industry. Back then, like you already mentioned, you're welding because shipbuildings you're looking at inch plates, you're looking at back gouge seams, you're looking at lots of out-of-position welding. Everything's done in position and you're running 110-18s, which can be tricky, you'll learn, but it's like trying to throw water on a wall and make it stick For you. You must have seen so many advancements in the processes of shipbuilding because, like I mean, I tell you now, you walk into a shipyard now and it's way different in a lot of ways. Right, you got sub arcs doing the outsides, you got trolleys, you got all these different wire processes. What?
Speaker 1:was it like seeing these changes throughout your career.
Speaker 2:Again, another great observation, but we used to have. I can remember when square wave came in.
Speaker 2:Right wave came in right, the, the square, the square wave, uh. But 6011 and 7018 is what we used. But during your apprenticeship we learned sub arc. We used to build up the shafts, the submarine shaft, with submerged shark, so it wasn't like putting it on a trolley, we had to put it in a giant lathe, the shaft, and then build it up with I think it was uh, uh 625, lincoln 625 or something with the underlay, and then we put the incanel on the shaft right. That was interesting. Um, we, we learned blacksmithing, uh, some rigging. But we learned as far as the welding processes go. We learned Kig A lot of aluminum in shipbuilding, and a lot of stainless steel, mig A lot of aluminum I don't know if we ever used the MIG In my apprenticeship or steel Flux core was hardly Heard of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that didn't come until the 90s really, when it got big. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So TIG MIG oxy-sethylene Plasma was just getting introduced for cutting.
Speaker 1:Gouging. Gouging has always been around.
Speaker 2:Carbon arc gouging definitely that was a big part of it and we went through the whole process and we did do pipe. We never got certified or qualified and back then we never had Canadian Welling Bureau. We had our own entity with the Dockyard Lab. I was fortunate enough to work in that. It's called ADRI Defense Research Establishment Atlantic, I think it is, and I got to work in there with a brilliant man, Dr Jim Matthews, and we learned how to break things and it opens your eyes when you learn how to break things, Max.
Speaker 2:You sure do the, the explosion bulge test. Uh, the, uh, the giant sharpies, the dynamic tear tests. Uh, I don't know if you've ever dealt with that, but it's a lot of fun yeah, it's a big foot coming down hard.
Speaker 1:That's what, yeah, yeah that's for sure.
Speaker 2:so I was lucky enough to do that, and it gives you a different insight. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When I became boss my boss, the group foreman of the column he approached me and said let's get rid of all the antiquated machines. And we ended up.
Speaker 2:I ended up getting rid rid of everything, had a number and everything had to be signed back in and accounted for yeah but I, I went out and I think we bought 10 holbert diesels uh, I know there were gold or yellow in color and thought that was the start of the getting rid of the antiquated stuff. And uh, we used to use I think it was a lindy for mig welding for the big guns. Uh, it had the slope. I still never understand slope, and what was the other term for the?
Speaker 2:there's slope and trim wasn't, it was yes, yeah, but anyway, I never understood, never did understand that. But I, if somebody set up the machine for me, you know, and then it was like a sliding graph, almost, you know, to get that well, property. But so that went and we ended up getting a cobra and I don't know if you ever.
Speaker 2:It was a beautiful gun, push pole model nice we're in the big wire and I don't even know what power of that, but the gun itself was called a cobra and I welded a lot of aluminum, putting bottoms in lighter boats and stuff like this, and mass all the master aluminum for weight. Yeah, I did a lot of aluminum welding and back then too, we used 50-53. And what was it? 40-46, is it? One was for cash and one was for drawn metal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 40-41, I think isn't it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:Anyway so when go back to the apprenticeship we had, we had four wellers, all very good people. One guy Got approached by the RCMP and he said can I finish my Apprenticeship first? And they said, if you want to join the RCMP, you go out west. So he ended up Steve he, he was his name he ended up leaving. So now it's down to three of us and I needed an edge, I thought, because I thought the other two guys were more capable than I was.
Speaker 2:So I started taking night courses at TUNS Technical University of Nova Scotia, part of Dalhousie, and I go down. George Halliburton was the instructor and I just started learning a little bit about technical welding. And again, I needed that edge because I thought the other two were more proficient than I was. And the way things happened, there was a civilian reduction program, I think around late 80s, early 90s, and then there was layoffs there and people had to go. But, as it turned out, the federal government, the way you could get your money and leave your job had to be redundant and your job had to be redundant and your job had to be redundant and the job was never going to be offered again.
Speaker 1:It was like a terminated position. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right Terminated position. So we had a welling inspector and I don't know I'm not, I'm not here to criticize him I didn't know he was a welling inspector, but he left and he got a bucket of money and then when, when it came up, maybe some critical work came up, somebody realized we don't have a welling inspector. Right. And now I'm already into it was WIC then Remember WIC, Welling Institute of Canada modules.
Speaker 1:Yeah, way before the go-to-run, I got the books behind me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go. I probably still got mine. So I already had those modules in. I had some of the technical courses from tons and then my name came up and said, well, we need a welling inspector. And there was other people more experienced but they never had. I was so close. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Writing and anyway. So that's another thing. I'm one of the luckiest people because that brought me into the inspection world. Yeah and yeah. So that really worked out for me. And one guy took the civilian reduction program. Another guy is actually. I just reached out to him through LinkedIn, so I was the last one in the welding world that survived the full term and it got me to where I am today, right. Yeah yeah, so anyway, that all worked out for me.
Speaker 1:But then you get more into the welding, inspection and learning how to do things right and the metallurgy and the processes and the procedures.
Speaker 2:And why it's not all BS. It's because there is a reason for this, yeah, and then in the meantime, I became the apprenticeship supervisor, I guess for the welding, all the new, because we always had a lot of you know yeah four a year and then it's a three or four year program and so I got into the teaching part of it too.
Speaker 2:And then again we never had canadian welding bureau and we made some mistakes and I'll talk about that. Uh, and that brought in. So okay, we need to, we need to get some corrective action here and anyway. So I ended up going to Staticona and teaching the military mostly, but on how to weld, and they did have a instructor, but it wasn't a very efficient program. We sort of set it up. At the same time. We invited Canadian Welding Bureau because there were people leaving the military and they had no certification. You're an in-house certified. It doesn't get you anything.
Speaker 1:As soon as you walk off the property. It's no good Right.
Speaker 2:So that's again when Canadian Welling Bureau came in. It changed a lot of things. It changed a lot of attitudes, but it worked, because then you have standards and then again people reject it. But over time it worked. We had different trades because we had very strict trade boundaries, but we did get it that other trades could tack. For example, like you know, like sheet metal, there's an awful lot of sheet metal on a ship and the sheet metal workers weren't allowed to weld or tack. So we brought that in. Iron workers weren't allowed to weld. Most of them could weld, most of them came from a welding school and then became an iron worker Right. So we integrated the sheet metal to tack up their trunking, say for ventilation Mm-hmm. Tacked the trunking, lay it aside. When the weller comes by, the weller will weld it. And the same for the iron workers. We call them platers. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And the platers would tack it up and then leave it and move on, so then the wellers would come behind. So that was a good step and there was a lot of resistance in that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's interesting. You bring up a couple of concepts there that I think are interesting to know about you, and there are things that I know about you personally. You know I've been in the industry since 93. You've been since 80. So you got 13 years on me. Yeah, 93. You've been since 80, so you got 13 years on me. And in my life I've run into a lot of older guys, a lot of mentors, a lot of people that have been in the industry a long time, and I would say that most, most of them are resistant to learning new stuff. They kind of get stubborn, they get, you know, stuck in their ruts and they're old school max right and they're not good with change, but you're not one of those people.
Speaker 1:You've already made a number of examples in your story so far of where you you weren't stuck. You were looking at the new tech, you were thinking you know, there's got to be a better way. You're thinking there's got to be a a different way, or? A proper process and that really separates a trade person out from the rest. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and again some old war stories. When we were doing boilers, we had a boiler makers which, around 1980, the boiler trade was dying out because the steamers are gone, you know, and we're dealing with diesels now. So we had it was a 707, certanium, not Certanium was Certanium a welding company.
Speaker 1:I don't remember. I don't remember.
Speaker 2:Orange, orange colors, orange packaging and stuff, and I think it was a 707. And we were welding boiler tubes with the 707. And it was, like you know, there was definitely some nickel in it and whatnot, and it was a pretty weld and a nice blue finish when you finish, whatnot. And it was a pretty weld and a nice blue finish when you finish. But so we do the border tubes and and I learned from, I learned from, uh, this old guy leo, and he was a really good welder and he said don't worry about it, they're gonna crack anyway. So that's, that was the attitude. Well, they're only going to last with the thermal expansion and traction and everything yeah so, like he taught me that, he said here's how we weld it.
Speaker 2:And I never had enough sense then to ask what kind of stainless steel they were made out of. But in, and I'll lead up to this brilliant engineer, who's no longer with dnd, but uh, when he came in, we were looking in, we were looking at processes, and he said why are you willing to list these tubes with 707? And I said well, leo Pace taught me how to do it, that's what he told me he probably learned it from somebody else. Tribal knowledge.
Speaker 2:they called it back then tribal knowledge they called it back then and because it was a hand-me-down, it's pass-on. So he looked it up. Gordon McDonald looked it up and said well, I can't even remember what it is now. Let's say it was 316 per. I don't think it was that. He said well, if you have 316 stainless, why don't you use 316 electrodes? Yeah, and that was a game changer and an eye-opener for me, you know, and that's how simple it was. And then we had to do testing and procedures, but guess what? They didn't break. They didn't break anymore. Wow, no well they still.
Speaker 2:They still failed because the boiler tools, that's uh well they do, but still yeah, they go through a lot of work, yeah yeah, but anyway, so that that was an eye opener for me how that came about. Yeah, so you want me to start on the mistake that we made now?
Speaker 1:you alluded you alluded to the big mistake and I I love big mistake stories because I got a big mistake story from my life too, like a like a multimillion-dollar mistake. I was a part of. And you learn your lessons? I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 2:Yes, so Canada. At the time Canada was one of three countries to cut submarines into and weld them back together. I think Germany and Australia were the only other two companies at the time and Gordon McDonald, again, the engineer, was involved with that. So people say, why would you want to do that? Because submarines are cramped one giant pipe and you got people of all shapes and sizes, tall and big and small and anyway, crawling over each other to get their job done and everybody wanted to do their job.
Speaker 2:So somebody came up with the idea If we cut this submarine into all the machine, the sub-apparat, remove the diesels, because submarines are battery electric. Remove the diesels. We would save one full year of man hours by rebuilding the diesels in the shop, as opposed to me crawling over your bank or vice versa right so that was successful.
Speaker 2:We had we had uh, the first time we was involved with it, we had 16 welders 24 hours a day, or I believe it was 15 days straight, preheated with the electro blankets, and everything was very critical. One group, we had them at Max, I'm going to say nine, I'll say nine, nine and two, or 10 and two, and then from 12 o'clock or from six o'clock up one side and then down the other. You know, come up the other.
Speaker 2:No group would get ahead of the other group by more than one foot. That was it. Because of distortion, You'll pull it. Yeah, Everything was controlled Again. It's a.
Speaker 1:It's a big tube, so it'll distort a lot yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was very critical. You know there's more measurements. We had dimensional inspection units there we have quite the facility and it was all 110-18s, if I can recall, one inch thick, 25 millimeter thick hull and it was 20 foot diameter. I'm going back to the old school now, because then the intrapass temperature couldn't exceed 300 f, so we had to keep it between 250 and 300 f which is nothing that's just over boiling point for crying out loud yeah
Speaker 2:yeah, oh yeah it's uh, but you the metal was. So, uh, hy80 was the metal and it was like a high yield, uh, low alloy and uh, so it was. It was critical to keep the toughness of the steel. So everybody understood that we had a lot of fun doing that. So anyway, we did it and it went through UT visual, ut MT x-ray, every test and the circularity was relatively good and everybody was happy. The next time we did it, I think we did it in nine days, same format. So you know it was, it was. That was quite an experience Again, the teamwork and the coordination for everything. So then we were building I don't know how many escape hatches or submarine hatches, which are domed and fairly heavy material.
Speaker 2:So that had its own process. So we worked well with the machine shop and the hydraulic shops and you know, because it's so integrated, to build that from scratch. Then we had to build an escape tower and I don't know the reason for that now I can't remember. So the escape tower, again, it's a cramped tube. It might be a meter in diameter inside with a ladder, and we built it and installed it. And for people that don't know, we Canadians, to my knowledge to this day we cannot recover any sailors from the bottom of the ocean floor. We rely on the Americans. It's called a DSRVC deep sea something. They come down in a mini sub and take you out, one at a time up to that tube. You know it's like a double hatch, like an airlock. Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then they lock on to that. So the Americans were involved because their kit had to fit our kit and they discovered that we used the wrong material in the escape tower. The whole thing, the whole tower which was probably six months, you know it was so finger pointing started. Yeah, finger pointing started, and Ottawa came down next max, and it was a big.
Speaker 1:It was a big deal big to do.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, this is not a week's work. No, this is a month yes, if not six months or more again, I can't remember. So then we had to build a new tower, and that's when, well, who drew the material right?
Speaker 2:right one finger point and all this. So it changed and this is what I wanted to get across. We it changed our whole policy on how to control our metals and, well, the process of even ordering material changed. But the biggest factor I got then and I got involved with the Ottawa group and it was like I'm talking 20 people in a room you know again, trying to what happened and pointing fingers.
Speaker 2:And the Americans were in the room and Ottawa, you know, were in the room. But it turned out that what we did and again, it wasn't my idea but I learned a lot. So you take one piece of plate and it was probably common practice, but it wasn't common practice. In the mid-80s, late 80s we stamp, for example, hy80, the mil-spec in that corner and the last piece of metal used off that place gets put away, yeah yeah, right, and and it's probably people are probably shaking their head now you didn't do that.
Speaker 2:No, we did. Uh, the machine shop got involved. They, they started color coding the ends of all the round stock. Right, because, as you know, you cannot tell a piece of copper nickel from stainless steel to fresh hot roll, cold roll yeah I'm coming out of the lathe, you cannot tell no and you know a magnet helps sometimes.
Speaker 2:But so anyway, that changed there and they stamped. They did stamp some of the round stock but color codes. It happened in there. So that was just an example of what can happen again and we came through there. That was quite an interesting process to building the getting a hundred percent pen wells in in like uh, very difficult to get at places and how you well, at first never right so uh, it went in, uh, we passed Once.
Speaker 2:We got past that and the Americans came up and approved and everything was good. And then we're back on Square one. In the process Again, we talked about the Interpass temperature and you had to be on the job. We said you want this Cleaned up. You want this cleaned up. Do you want a photocopy? We want the grease, the coffee stains of the document that you're sitting on when you're down doing these counts.
Speaker 2:So we then had to do the heat inputs and everything. And there was one individual and the numbers weren't accurate. So that was brought to light. That was a big inquiry as well and I made mistakes. Computer were brand new to us and I got cop cutting and pacing. How did you inspect this on Tuesday, when it wasn't well looked Thursday, you know, and I was involved with that and they believed me, obviously, but I I got cock cut and paste. You know that was. That was a limited, uh, I'm still limited on computers, but so they bought my story. But the other guy had uh, uh, and the numbers didn't add up like, yeah, heat inputs were all wrong and what happened there? He was sorry he was doing them on his desk or something that just made it up, yeah, yeah, and that was brought to light to me I never.
Speaker 2:You know, listen, you do your job, I'll do mine, but I'm doing mine, that's my ability. And I said well, you're getting paid to be on the job. Go down on the job. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. And it's not all pleasant. Most of them are good, so it's just why not do it right the first time? We all make mistakes, and there's going to be mistakes made.
Speaker 1:I mean that's. The benefit of codes and standards, though, is that, yes, you got the rule book right in front of you. You don't have to reinvent the wheel here, you know. No. Now for yourself. You know you went from welder to boss to inspector. That also gives you a lot more experience than a lot of people that sometimes just go straight to inspector right, because you've seen it from the ground up yeah, I had uh just last month.
Speaker 2:I had uh a little controversy and the guy said he welded it with uh one process and I said I don't think so. And uh, yes, it's right here, here's where we did it. And I said you're telling me this is done with this process. I guarantee it's not done with that. So then their foreman came over and he challenged me and I challenged him back and it was not. I don't think the foreman knew they were trying to. Wellman knew they weren't trying to. Well, weller was obviously trying to pull something over. But I just said, listen, I know what this looks like. I've done it. I'm telling you this is not this process. If you want to tell me it is, I'm saying it isn't. And after the foreman called me in his office and he thanked me and I said, well, I'm just doing my job. And he said he said not everybody would pick up on that and I think he was in the dark on us. Yeah, yeah, he said not everyone.
Speaker 2:And I said, well, you can't bullshit the bullshit because you know it's you've seen it, you've seen it, 've seen it yeah, right, because I I again grew up with it right, and that happened more than once in my, uh, in my career well, once I started teaching at the college, I never seen so much cheating until I became a teacher.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and you try to get these kids telling you that they didn't weld on the back of a welded plate or something it's like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we know yeah we know, yeah, yeah, I can remember having. We were down the tank and won the ships and I had three or four apprentices and we're doing like, uh, call them an egg crate, you know, to fit up all the stiffeners and longitudinals and I was telling them they missed sections of it. You know full sections. But nobody had the leadership in the group Somebody usually takes, you know, and they were all young. So I had my wire brush and vacuum and cleaned everything up because there's slag everywhere in the bottom of the bilge and it's new build. So anyway, I explained to them they're sitting down and I said I know you think I'm a f***ing an a**hole, but there's a reason for this. And here's a prime example. I said we live in Canada and we have family and friends that are in the military, and if we don't have this welded right, do you want to lose a family member?
Speaker 2:You know and I give them a sort of a lecture like that. But then I clean it up and I said, okay, I'm not going to ask who had this section or when you went to break, or was it nice? I'm not going to ask that, I'm going to tell you I'm getting paid to look at every millimeter weld and I will look at every. So now I go to a bay and there's no welding in there and you guys are leashing it to the inspector. The inspector.
Speaker 1:And you guys are leashing it with the inspector.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the inspector and they're all looking at each other. And then we sat down and I wasn't. You know, I was giving sort of a lecture in a light way. But I said this is it. We want to do things right, and why not do it right?
Speaker 2:You know, and I said I'm methodical in the way I inspect Because I'll start. I don't want any interruptions, I don't want people talking to me, especially in something Very critical, and you could Miss the selection yourself which I have. So I said you know, take a block and do that. Yeah, there's an easy section In the block. Maybe there's a little the verticals you don't like doing Short overheads. Get them out of the way first, then clean up your slag and as you're cleaning up what you should do anyway with your chipping hammer and wire brush, then look at it and then, well, you got that block done yeah, and they sort of took it.
Speaker 2:all of them took it to heart and a couple of them came up to me after and thanked you know they did Right. So it's what you look at and I tell every site I go on. I am dead against airstrikes. And I was working at another place and it was ridiculous, the airstrikes. I couldn't and we would never let our boss know that you had an airstrike.
Speaker 1:You'd make the repair so fast. Yes, you'd make the repair so fast.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know what I mean. Take the polypan or whatever and grind that out or feather it out. It was ridiculous. So, we had a conversation about that as well. And again, try to keep. Try to be positive. I don't go up and say your well failed Max. I say look, this well doesn't meet requirements because of yeah, what are we going to do to fix it? Right.
Speaker 2:And that brings me to another and again supervisors, help leader, supervisors and teachers or people that well a lot of people and we don't expect everybody to know the codebook off by hand, but there's, I find that a lot of people and we don't expect everybody to know the code book off by hand, but there's, I find that a lot of the welders for sure, and some of their supervisors, they don't understand the full allowances or get away with is the wrong term but what, what's acceptable and what's not. And a lot of times, a lot of times, you go look at it. Well, you know, you're allowed a certain percentage over a hundred meter weld. You're allowed a percentage of a, you know, a little undersized weld.
Speaker 2:you know, and so I bring that to their attention. Even though it's acceptable by our standards, I'll still bring the welder over, say see, this is not eight millimeters here and you go, it might have been an arm stretch max, or it could be underneath a rat hole or something like this. Yeah, and I'll just say, listen, it's undersized here and I'm I'm gonna accept, and it's not john marshall accepting it, it's the code book. Yeah, people had more of an awareness of the code book, I think.
Speaker 1:I think There'll be a lot less fighting At Arap too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, yeah, all right. Well, let's take a break right now for our advertisers, and when we get back, I want to continue with the story. So I'm loving this. I'm loving the story. Continue with the story. So I'm loving this. I'm loving the story, so okay. So for our listeners, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back here with John Marshall on the CWB Association podcast.
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Speaker 2:So it brings me back again. My friends call me anal and I am, and especially I'm a fear inspector and I go by the book. But we there's other factors. You had to, uh, you know, bring into it again degree of difficulty. You've got to be, uh, it's definitely a factor. Uh, you know where you see people wedging, putting a wedge in between two pipes so they can get the last. You know a hundred millimeters around that pipe to get it in, and, uh, there's a lot of techniques out there. But, um, when it comes to housekeeping, for example, like clean up your wells, when, if you clean up your wells and I do every one, and if I do, like a railing for a neighbor or something, I will take my beer hand and go over every inch of that railing, because we don't want people, we don't want to cut somebody or yeah, you know, yes, so uh, and people don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:it's like get in and out as fast as you can, and and I was on a job recently and I had to go to the dollar store and get a little whisk or a broom so I could look at the wells, like they didn't have it cleaned up for me, which then your eye gets sharper, max.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, then now you're kind of pissed off, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I had to tell so many students they give you, let's say, a hot piece of plate uh, maybe too hot that you shouldn't be looking at at that time. You know you're looking at it or a sharp edge covered in spatter and yeah, and I just say now, I've been around long enough and my hands are fairly tough, but do you think you would pass this test if I had to cut my hand on this? And then I'll show them a razor edge on it and then they're looking at me right, but it's fact.
Speaker 2:You don't want to piss out the inspector. You don't have to kiss up, but just do it right and break your edges.
Speaker 1:I had a boss that used to keep cotton gloves in his toolbox and he would run a cotton glove across your weld. I had a boss that used to keep cotton gloves in his toolbox and he would run a cotton glove across your weld and if it caught, clean it up. And I remember being like man this guy is a hard but he would say this is a $2.5 million piece of machinery. If you went and bought a Ferrari and the door didn't close right or the paint was peeling off, would you buy it?
Speaker 2:No, if you're buying expensive equipment, you expect perfection yeah, and and then uh again, not too long ago I was on this job and the flat welds were terrible. They were, uh, they were flux core. Yeah, were terrible, and they did a lot of time grinding and I said this is not acceptable. Yeah, but we got the leg length. I said you don't have profile and then you'd see a beautiful vertical and I said what's going on here? I had to approach QA guys and he couldn't answer me. But it's pretty hard to mess up a flat fillet weld.
Speaker 1:And then you nailed the vertical. The verticals were beautiful.
Speaker 2:Equal leg length. Yeah, so when I look at a job and I tell this to the young inspectors as well uh, coming out of school, we have a school here with Tony Rose. Yeah, yeah, just retired, tony, just retired.
Speaker 1:The prop to Tony. I love Tony.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anyway, uh, I had a couple of those young inspectors under my wing when I was working and they shadow me for a couple weeks three weeks and I had a lot of fun with that and hopefully I taught things. They get out of school. They couldn't tell you a piece of uh schedule 40, from schedule 80 pipe or a piece of you know really, because, yeah, they weren't welders well, and if they're not, welders.
Speaker 1:The inspector course is only a couple weeks. How much are you gonna learn in a couple weeks?
Speaker 2:right yeah yeah, and I I asked every one of them uh, where's your magnet? First thing you go to is your magnet. Um, uh, so I just say, when I'm doing an inspection, here's my train of thought, and I do a lot of bridges. Now, if this well fails, is somebody going to die? Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the first thing that enters my mind. Some people say you should look at every well as critical, but we don't. It's human nature. The second one is what's the cost of repair if the well fails? If you get inside a communications room on a ship and there's the-.
Speaker 1:Electronics and panels, and all this.
Speaker 2:Electronics and the removals are a quarter million dollars just to remove it, to get at it. That's the third factor, or second factor. It you know to get at it, that's the third factor or second factor. And then the third factor is is uh coding or longevity, or you know, like uh, how to uh not access it, but how to preserve it?
Speaker 1:yeah, how well difficult right.
Speaker 2:Let's do it right the first time. So my, my vision gets better. The more critical the wells are and you really got to pay attention and you know, especially with a little bit of undercut, on a, you know, on a pressure vessel, for example, or so, uh, and you try to teach, you try to teach the students and the welders look if, if you did this, if you did this, you know, file that off or just touch that with a grinder and break the sharp edge, we're all good you know, and keep things positive.
Speaker 1:Now, what about in terms of the experiences you've had Like, do you think it's easier or harder now to be a welder? You know, say, from 20 years ago?
Speaker 2:Uh the I. The biggest failures I see is uh leg length and.
Speaker 2:I deal with some pretty good companies and they are good companies. But you go and you put your fillet weld gauge and the guy one guy said to me he said eight millimeter, well, you don't know what an eight millimeter well is. And max, I said I do know what an eight meter, uh, fillet well is. But you know what, if this fails and I end up in a court of law and the judge says, did you measure that? Well, I can say I most certainly did. Well, the judge will ask me how do you know that? Because I measure every well, don't get offended.
Speaker 1:It's not personal, no, no.
Speaker 2:But I find a lot of the companies now it calls for an eight millimeter weld and you'll see a six Leg length is probably the biggest thing that I mark up on a drawing now or on the site. Increase the fillet, weld and again they're putting it out fairly fast. Time is money and we do get complacent. Oh, that's 8mm, Everything must be 8mm. Then you hit a 10mm.
Speaker 1:And vice versa. Right, it goes up and down. But as you get skilled as a welder especially a certified welder like I mean, you carry your fillet gauges in your pocket you start to really figure out what's right and what's not right, and and how to lay it in. That's right. That's right. And if you get yelled at by a couple inspectors in your career, you also learn how that works. Right like you don't.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah yeah, um, and another big positive that came with my career. Again, this is when I was in the dockyard with D&D, and there's more than one aspect. We did all the lifting appliances on the ship, so you learn hydraulics and wire rope. I did wire rope, horses. But paint and paint and welling tie in so close together and I'm trying to teach everybody on that project why we do this. Like you can't leave the spatter, you can't, you know, and round the edges. And they are in the industry now on a lot of the bridge work. They have the nibblers and they have the grinders and they radius the corners on the edges of the paint. That's a big help. It is, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Now what about your life as a volunteer? You know, because I I met you through the canadian welding association, the cwa is. When I first met. You is um, and you know my dad was a part of of this community. So I remember wick, I remember all going way back. But for yourself, when did you get into that aspect of it of of you know, contributing to to your community, not from a monetary side, but from an educational side?
Speaker 2:uh, I never. I never did mine.
Speaker 2:Sharing knowledge and uh, so I guess the apprenticeship, uh in the dockyard was where I stared at it and you take uh, some were better than others, uh, but you take people under your wing and say, okay, here's we, here's what we do, why we do it. And then if they would ask me a question, max, and I'm like that today I will find out the answer. You know, and I remember this young fellow, simon. Simon was from Newfoundland, out west, and this is funny. Anyway, he came in the dark air, green as green could be, and introduced I said where are you from, simon? He said Shuko boy. I said Shuko, by. I said Shuko. I said is that? Is that up by the sea? Yes, by three mile. Who would he go real fast. But Simon was great, he did the apprenticeship and he absorbed every word that I said. But he, he asked me a question one day and I couldn't understand it and I've been in the welding industry now for five or six years and we were down in an engine room and he was slinging his electrode holder.
Speaker 2:I don't know, we used a lot of 6011 back then and he was swinging around and it was brass fittings and gauges, like you know, a tight machinery space. And he did strike an arc and I don't know now if it was on the brass or whatever and I said Simon, I said what are you doing? Yeah, so anyway, we did fix whatever it was, or told somebody about what we did. And I said, simon, if you're in a tight confine, you take the electrode out of the electrode holder till you get in and you get down on your elbows and push it in so you can. So he hit the brass yes, it was brass and he said something. I don't know the exact question, but he said is that a metal? And I said, certainly brass is a metal. And he said well, what's the definition of a metal? And I did not know it.
Speaker 2:And I'm not going to rhyme it off to you now, but it is about it's about 20 word definition you know, and it was quite a definition. So then I learned that and that's the way I am. If he asked me the question, I learned something and I told him what a metal was, you know, and it is quite a definition, but he didn't know brass and steel were metals. I guess we knew steel was a metal, but he didn't know brass was a metal. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I always enjoyed that part. And when you take a young protege or whatever Mentee- and they succeed and they pass the first welling test, or they graduate and next thing they're an inspector. It makes you feel good too.
Speaker 1:It does, it does. Yeah, yeah. Now, what about your volunteer work with the chapters directly? When did you start doing that?
Speaker 2:That was back in the Jim Reed days. I don't know how long. We went to meetings, and there was a core group of us too. That sort of got together. Jim was stepping down and we were redundant. So, we had meetings. These seminars that the Halifax and Nova Scotia chapters put on were very good and very successful, and then we sort of dropped the ball with jim leaving or whatever.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, we stepped up and trying to rejuvenate it again. Uh, so that's where it came from and I got time. I could always manage my time well, and, and now I'm retired, and now tony is retired. We don't know where this is going to go. And David's still got some work to do and Charlie and Alan are still working, so I can put my hand on the pulse most times.
Speaker 1:I don't know how retired you are, John. You don't sound that retired to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my wife.
Speaker 1:Well, last year you guys ran that wonderful program that blew my mind. You guys did such a great job with that.
Speaker 2:We have a meeting. I got an email yesterday with Nova Scotia Community College. We're going to do it again, maybe not with the introduction of aluminum, but something else, and you'll be involved this time with the advertising aspect of it. But that was very successful and we are also bringing in a hard servicing seminar.
Speaker 1:Oh fun.
Speaker 2:We already contacted a company. They're going to bring in the rep Studi or whoever Don't know who it's going to be yet, but they're going to bring in the rep Studi or whoever Don't know who it's going to be yet, but they're going to bring in the hard surfacing. We're going to hopefully host it at Akeley Campus in Dartmouth and we don't know yet. We don't know yet if it's going to be hands-on welding because of, well, space and numbers. We don't know the numbers yet, max, but yes, we have a couple of wires in the fire again now.
Speaker 2:That's fine I really want to see that. I really want to see the hard surfacing. I talked to so many people, including one of the instructors, and they've never used it. They don't understand it. It's their. You know the hardness. I don't even know if they understand that the hardness of it well, and how different they will.
Speaker 1:Rockwell values, right, like hard surfacing rods, weld so different.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, they don't even look the same, they don't even sound the same no, and then do you need an underlay, do you need need the crisscross pattern, or you know if you butter it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's going to be an interesting one and we'll probably put that on at Akerley and put it out to the world through you and say we got to look at numbers, of course, but let's say there's 25 or 30. We'll give it to the students At Akerley. That'll be a bonus on us, I think, and then anybody in the fringes that are interested they can get knowledge from it as well, Awesome man.
Speaker 1:How is the industry doing in your area? Like, how are you feeling about Atlantic provinces? Now For the listeners that are listening, you know I see Irving's hiring all over the place, you know is there work. You know I'm I'm in western canada. We always had the east coasters come to us, right, it was always like these coasters come to us and shut down season. Yeah, they were always good welders, hard workers, but then they'd go home yeah right now is that still, that migration still happen the migration is still happening.
Speaker 2:we have a lot of bridge work and I mean I mean Irving's still got the shipyards. Rko are putting up buildings. There's a lot of cranes around a lot of building, but I mean that's more clips and base plates and whatnot. You know there's iron worker work yeah. Yeah, and but for the most part it is a ship building here in Halifax. And again, Chiribini and the bridge work I know of. We just finished one bridge and there's another one going down in Muscadabit.
Speaker 2:I took you down Muscadabit way one time yeah, that was a good time yeah, so there's a bridge going and that's only an I-beam girder bridge, that's not big, but some of the bridges we were doing are big tub girders, I don't know. Oh, the Seal Island Bridge, you want to look that up? That's in Cape Breton and that is a massive job and the last I heard had two bids Full reconstruction which would take probably 10 to 20 years. Wow, or I call it the band-aid, which will take an ongoing For 10 years. But it's a massive job. It's a nice looking bridge, if you want to look it up, the Seal Island Bridge and every truck that comes from Newfoundland going to or from the process, that bridge and it's quite a project and it's got quite a history.
Speaker 1:Cool, cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, what about the students' programs you know like? Are you seeing lots of kids get into the trades in Atlantic provinces? Are you are the like? I mean I could probably ask Tony himself, but are the programs still full? Are they pumping out the welders Because Lord knows we need them?
Speaker 2:As far as I know, all classes are filled with a waiting list to get in. Good, as you know, the success rate or the, the, uh, the percentages aren't great for people coming in and going out with that. You know we're down around what?
Speaker 1:30 or 40 percent, yeah it's about 30 is the national average, yeah yeah, um, I promote welding, uh, as much as I can.
Speaker 2:You know I go and talk at high schools and whatever, and I, you know, I quite frank, just the way I'm talking to you now, max, listen, I'm not here to tell you not to go to Universal. I'm here to say welding is a good trade and most trades are good trades. But you mightn't like sawdust in your nose or down your inside your shirt, you mightn't like welling sparks, but I'm here to tell you your parents don't want to spend $20,000 to waste a year of your life in university. If you're not into it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:If you're not interested, yeah, if you're not interested. And then I tell a couple of war stories about my career. And you know I tell them I started in 1979. Their parents weren't born then and you know that opens you up. I do say, even in the hard times which we're going to hit pretty soon, the Irvings are going to hold the role, but the farmers and the fishermen still need things repaired and even in the hardest times you will be able to put supper on the table.
Speaker 1:That's right At the end of the day, the practical skills never stop being needed it doesn't have to do with the price of the market. It doesn't have to do with the barrel of oil.
Speaker 1:Sure maybe today you made $50 an hour and tomorrow you're only making $20 an hour. I get that that might suck, yeah, but your job is there, the skill is there. Yes, yeah, for sure, and I really believe in that. Well, I've been through three economic downturns as a welder, you know, in your career you've probably been through four or five now and at the end of the day, we still have our trades and our careers and we put, like you said, we still put supper on the table. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. And again, there's so much room for advancement now. So go back to your question about is it easier? Is it easier to? Uh? Well, now, as opposed to 1980, I love stick welding and I don't know how you weld. I don't think I ever saw you well and you probably never me. I'm Keep the puddle in motion, type guy, okay. And then I see Some of the younger people coming in. They just drag that in and I tried it. It's not for me and Me I've always got the puddle in motion.
Speaker 1:How about you? I can do both, but I like to keep it nice and steady. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:If I'm going a vertical, I got the little smile going on each side. Yeah, two hole, one, two hole.
Speaker 1:Then you just drag it straight up. I can depends on the rod, of course, but uh, yeah like I mean a 7018. I don't mind running a stringer straight up the wall.
Speaker 2:It looks nice oh, oh yeah, I thought you were talking about wire then no for wire, for for gmaw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd probably do a little bit of a weave there. There'd be a little motion, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I see some people dragging it right up and I don't really like the profile. It's there.
Speaker 1:It's acceptable, you get a lot of crown. You get a lot of crown. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know you got metal core, flux core, solid wire. I'm not a fan of solid wire, I don't know enough about it, I haven't used it enough, but I find that the fusion isn't there, you know for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah and do you well much solid wire. I have done tons in my career. Yeah, both flux core, metal core and solid wire. I never had problems with penetration. But there's flux core, metal core and solid wire. I never had problems with penetration. But you, there's more room for error with solid wire. If you don't dial it in, you won't get that root pellet penetration yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:That's, and that's that's my observation as well, right? So I mean, there's so many different factors.
Speaker 1:Aluminum has come such a long way well, and I I'm a terrible aluminum welder. That's my, that's my weakness. I'm not good at aluminum, yeah yeah, uh, again it's.
Speaker 2:Uh. I never walked a cup in my life because that wasn't invented when I was doing it, but uh, it seems to be a success thing. Um, but uh, aluminum, like you said, everything is so refined now with you know the pulse arc and the technology you know technology and the wires and the. You know the alloys in there. It's a, so I don't. Aluminum is basically easy to weld if you follow. Yeah, now it is yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember the first time I tried running aluminum on just straight negative polarity and I just made the biggest mess you'd ever make. And I was thinking well, I can't do this yeah, oh yeah, another.
Speaker 2:Another funny story. Uh, I was down in my apprenticeship and I was in the we call it the tig corner, so that's where you learned how to weld the aluminum. And old Tommy Brown he was probably long gone now but he Was an old welder, very, very finesse welder. He was doing A thin, like I'm going To say, 20 gauge Little Connie tank, a little Connie tank or something.
Speaker 2:He was doing and he went for break. During break, one of my buddies came up and said can you well, this, it was a home job, right? So I go up and I cranked it up from you know, let's say from you know, what happened, right?
Speaker 2:oh, I cranked it up and let's say I'm well in quarter inch aluminum and I changed over the. I changed over the tungsten you know probably a 1.8 tungsten or uh and cranked up the voltage and average and did what I had to do and then I changed it back, put his his 116 tungsten in there and changed it back to the small torch.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I forgot to switch it back he came back and he almost had this job done, max, and he blew aside all that coal vessel. Oh, he wasn't happy with me, right yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't make friends playing with other people's welding machines.
Speaker 2:No, that's for sure oh he, I don't think he talked to me for a couple days. Yeah, now that happens too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does happen. We all make mistakes and and that's part of the, that's part of the industry too, like I mean sometimes you see people around you make mistakes and you got to support them and teach them and hope they get better. I mean, some people don't learn and then you figure out who they are too right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, keep it positive, Max. And again, even if you don't make it or whatever, if it's a visual or it fails on a bend test or something like that, or lack of fusion, we all know, about that. Just well, change something one thing at a time, don't change five things and sort of work them through it. That's right that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, what's in the future for you, john? You know, um, when you look at the next five years of your life, 10 years of your life, what is it that's on the bucket list for you to do? What's going on for you for projects?
Speaker 2:I'm starting to wind down a little bit, starting to wind down a little bit I don't believe you. You just told me you still play hockey three times a week for crying out loud. I'm playing tomorrow, anyway, max, my welding certification. I'm playing tomorrow, anyway, max, my welding Certification. My welding inspection certification Runs out when I'm 69, and I said I'd like to keep going Until I'm then, and then I'll look at it again.
Speaker 2:Right and and stay with my Paint certification. They're sort of on a parallel, you know, and we'll see where it goes, but again I enjoy it. I and actually I talked to tony and I might try to put a bit more time in the canadian welling association, like from this end, and try to really get things moving along well I'm here to support you, buddy, I'm here to support you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, any ideas you have, you know I love them oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, like I say, let's get these two underway for, with uh, nova scotia community college and then we'll trying to get our numbers up is a big thing with me, and getting a true, a true uh value on our numbers and how to get people in, you know, to get them active again.
Speaker 1:Well, you got students and you got industry. We got to find that secret sauce. We got to find that secret sauce to get it all put together, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I had another thing I was going to tell you.
Speaker 1:I can't remember now, but you keep talking and I'll it'll come back up again well, I know, before we started you told me I gotta make sure I say the one thing, did we get the one thing? Did we, did we cover the one thing?
Speaker 2:yeah, that, that that was a escape power.
Speaker 1:Okay, good yeah because you know those stories sometimes are the most valuable ones, because it's easy to focus on the positive, it's easy to be like everything I built is great, everything I built is wonderful. I know. But no, there's sometimes, sometimes things can go sideways really bad. Yeah. Yeah, I did the.
Speaker 2:I did the airport overpass here in Halifax. Uh, probably, I don't know 10 years ago less, and an engineering company went up and there's only six girders I think I beam girders and uh, they did a inspection on it and they said there was three repairs on the airport side, one repair on the racetrack side going over the main highway. So the contract was left and then the staging is put in place. The roadways are closed off, you know, slowed down, and so I get up and again, I love rust. You know I made my living from rust and I know where to look and I had taken erosion courses and how it works and what happens and all that.
Speaker 2:So I got up on that staging and I started tapping things with my hammer. There's a hole, there's a hole and I don't know about. I just I'm sent on the job. So when I finished I said we got troubles and I called up the guy who hired me and I said I took pictures and they had four repairs. When I was finished there was 19 repairs, at least six meters or two meters long Each. You could put your hand through it, and I had engineers on the staging and if you know how turbulence works underneath the bridge with the sand and the salt and the water and the rain, it, it at the lower flange of the i-beam. It's just eaten out on both sides.
Speaker 1:It's gone and I had engine.
Speaker 2:I had engineers looking at me there's no hole there, in other words, we don't need to fix it. So I said, everybody here got hearing protection. I took out my hammer and I hit that and there was a hole there. You know it was. Let's say it was uh, 15 millimeters. Well, what I could see, it was less than a millimeter left if it wasn't whole. Then it just so happened, the sandblast guys were getting geared up.
Speaker 2:I said we all stepped up, give it a shot yeah, give that a shot, and then you can put your hand through it. And we had engineers say, well, it's not hold, and they ended up with 19 repairs at the end of that.
Speaker 1:That's full cutouts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, that's a reality. And I was. There was a meeting call. I wasn't invited to it, but the next morning there was a meeting called with uh dot, uh, nova scotia department of transport, uh, the guy who hired me, who's also an engineer, the engineering firm, and I don't know what came, but but it was quite a to-do, right. Well, for sure yeah, well again.
Speaker 2:Uh, you got to know where to look and how to look. And they're talking about doing drones now doing bridges and I I gotta ask my opinion on that. I sort of like the idea, but I said you can't see through that road grime, that sand laying there. You have to, it has to be clean yeah, there has to be contact. Yeah, there's gonna be some contact there yeah, so I mean drones might be okay for visual, for maybe some basic stuff, but it won't tell you the whole story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's. Uh. It's hard to get at places where they don't. The painters don't like to go with their hair to get it. Everybody can paint the panel on a tub girder it's wide open in the corners and up underneath a piece of structural steel, and that's where it corrodes and that's where it's not painted proper. So I'm anal. Like that as well.
Speaker 1:You go to the hard spots awesome well, john, thanks so much for being a part of this show today. You're a wonderful volunteer for the association. We love the work you're doing out there and I just love running into you, because we always have a great time oh, yes, you know, uh and red deer yeah, red deer. Yeah, june 11th, you're gonna be there. I'm hoping to good. Good, we'll be there. We'll be the nac's on the 10th, so I'll be seeing you there for that meeting.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that's a good reminder.
Speaker 1:I gotta get the boys on that now see what's gonna happen awesome, john, anything you'd like to say to anybody before I let you go any any last minute words of wisdom no, it's all good, you know, let's keep it going. Yeah, let's keep it going. I like that.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your time and I did watch some of your podcasts. They're quite interesting and hopefully I got to send a little bit of a message to somebody, Max, and then keep it light. Like you say, You're allowed to have fun at work.
Speaker 1:You are, you are and well, you make my work fun, so I appreciate it All right, thank you, and for all the people I've got to watch, hockey.
Speaker 2:Now Americans are playing. Yeah, I know I've got to go watch hockey Poor nations.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, Just hold on a second while I say goodbye here. So thank you everyone for being a part of today's show. Keep downloading, sharing and commenting on our shows. We're having lots of fun here with the podcast. This is part of Volunteer Appreciation Month and we really appreciate volunteers like John and all the great members and chapter work that we have across this beautiful country of ours. So keep Canada strong, keep our standards up there and work hard and do what's best for the industry. Until the next episode, I'll see you there.
Speaker 3:We hope you enjoyed the show. You've been listening to the CWB Association Welding Podcast with Max Serlano. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociationorg to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Produced by the CWB Group and presented by Max Serrano, this podcast serves to educate and connect the welding community. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.