The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 219 with Cassie Zinga and Max Ceron
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world to share their passion and give you the right tips to stay on top of what’s happening in the welding industry.
In today's episode, we welcome Cassie Zinga, sharing her fascinating journey from winning her high school's construction award to briefly studying firefighting before finding her true passion in Metal Fabrication. Now working as an Apprentice at a Toronto structural company specializing in custom architectural fabrication and public art, she's helping create massive spiral staircases and artistic installations that blend functionality with beauty. Cassie speaks candidly about the mathematics involved in fabrication, the supportive environment she found at George Brown College's Welding Techniques Program, and her current pursuit of Red Seal certification in Metal Fitting and Fabrication.
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin.
Speaker 1:Attention, welders in Canada looking for top quality welding supplies look no further than canada welding supply with a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear and consumables. Cws has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part all podcast listeners 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Can you believe that? Use code CWB10 at checkout when placing your next order. Visit CanadaWeldingSupplyca now. Canada Welding Supply, your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Hello and welcome to another edition of the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Saron and, as always, I'm trying to find the cool talent out there across Canada and the world. Today I have a wonderful caller calling in today from Toronto, ontario. We got Cassie Zinga, who is a fitter fabricator and she's an apprentice and she works for a structural company. How are you doing today, cassie I a structural company. How are you doing?
Speaker 3:today, cassie, I'm doing great. How are you doing, max?
Speaker 1:I'm great Number one. First of all, I love having a fabricator on the show. That's my love. My second love. I started in welding, but I became a fabricator, so it was good and sunny. It's cold. Well, it's warm in Saskatchewan, but I got a cold wind.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of weird yeah, for sure. How's Ontario treating you today? It's good we got some sun. Yesterday was pretty nice. We had a few nice weekends, so I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:How was work today?
Speaker 3:How was the shop Today is good, of course. Being a fabrication fitter, nothing wants to fit, so that's what hammers are for dealing with that today yeah, yeah, dealing with that today, but we got her done so good, good.
Speaker 1:Well, let's start a little bit. You know you, you're calling me from Ontario and is. Is that where you call home? Is that where your roots?
Speaker 3:are. I grew up about 45 minutes east of Toronto in Whippy and then I moved to Toronto when I was 20. I'm 29 now.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, you look like you're 22. I'm sure you hear that all the time.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Sometimes I get ID'd, sometimes.
Speaker 1:I haven't got ID'd since I was like eight, so I guess I've always looked like an old potato. So oh man so you know you're growing up in a small town. You know in, uh well, whitby's not that small. You know you're growing outside of toronto yeah and uh, at some point you got the bugs, so let's talk's talk about that. What attracted young Cassie into the trades?
Speaker 3:So I did construction all throughout high school and I loved it and I actually won the grade 12 construction award at our graduation and my teacher really took me under his wing. I was one of the few girls in the class and he just he was a great guy, but I was dead set on going to school for firefighting oh, firefighting okay yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So I said construction off to the side, I'm gonna go to school for firefighting. And I did that, graduated, loved it, but I just knew it wasn't gonna be my career and I moved to Toronto because I love live music and it just drew me in, kind of got astray, didn't know what exactly I wanted to do and started working for a loading dock okay, so deliveries and stuff like that I was there for five years, ended up managing.
Speaker 3:There had a team of great people, but I kind of climbed the ladder as high as I could in the position yeah um, and then trace came into play how did that happen? So I was like I always had an interest in the trades and my partner is actually a plumber plumbing apprentice and he heard of women on site which I know that you're aware of women on site yeah he was like you have to follow all of these girls and message them and like, get a feel of what's going on welding was.
Speaker 3:I had no idea welding, fitting, fabricating was I didn't even know those things existed at the time and I went to to one of their meetings the Women on Site meetings and I talked to some of the girls there and welding was one of those things where I was like whoa that's cool and a lot of the women in the Women on Site program are in the welding fields.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's quite a bit of them, and I went home from that meeting and I googled canada welding woman or something instagram and alicia buddy came up yeah because she's the first thing that comes up with canada welding girl and I messaged her and I told her my interest and she said why don't you come to her shop and we'll play around? Yeah and oh, I was not expecting her to respond she has so many followers right like. I was just amazed and I got to go to her shop and make a metal rose it was the first time I had touched a welder.
Speaker 3:We'd used MIG. I had never seen it before and I was on a high the rest of the day, like I was holding this rose with me wherever I went I was so excited. Yeah, I made this oh so cool, and so I was like I'm gonna apply to school I applied to welding school. This is, this is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the rest is kind of history well, let's go back there, because number one firefighting, you know so like you. So you well, maybe even let's go back further construction. So you were working in construction in high school. So I guess why you know that's already not a stereotypical kind of gig that a lot of girls are looking at to get into in high school.
Speaker 1:Like you know, everyone's looking for like the burger kings or the, you know the working at the hotels on the weekends or whatever kind of jobs. What attracted you to get into construction while you were in high school?
Speaker 3:well, I was taking construction in high school okay, so it was a class in high school. So I wasn't working on the field, but I grew up with all boys and if there was something that I wanted done, my dad would be like wanting to teach me how to do it myself without the help. And so as soon as I saw it on the course registry there was like what do you do home ec or something. I was like that's not for me, I don't want to do that, let's do the construction and still to this day.
Speaker 3:I mean the grade 12 class. I made a uh dime, not dining room, a living room table like a coffee table. It's still my coffee table in my house now that's awesome. I yeah, it was so, so cool. So I stuck that out for the four years and it was.
Speaker 1:It was great, like even just learning how to use hand tools was amazing, yeah, just that confidence to be, like I need to pick up a tool and use it right yes, for sure, for sure it's interesting, uh, and I don't want to. I don't want to slang home ec, because I took home ec.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, but I knew I wasn't going to be good at it.
Speaker 1:But I'm a great cook so I feel like it helped. I feel like it helped, so it's good.
Speaker 3:But what about baking? Baking's hard.
Speaker 1:Baking is hard, so I can cook really well, but I'm not a very good baker because I'm not I agree, I'm not very good baker, because I'm not. I agree I'm not very like good at following recipes. I always want to like add a little bit extra, but it's funny because I just interviewed someone the other day.
Speaker 5:We were talking about how baking and welding are identical because of metallurgy. I see, I said this to my foreman at work that I was horrible at baking and he's like how are you welding?
Speaker 3:And I was like, oh, oh, it's not the same.
Speaker 1:he's like yeah, I feel like ingredients, alloys, things change different things. So I get it, I get it okay. So so you grew up in a world where the trades were kind of like accepted you know. Like you said, you grew up around all boys, so it was already on your radar. You, you were liking it. You, you already got kind of past that fear part.
Speaker 1:Then then we get to firefighting now. I know a lot of people that have gone in to be firefighters. A lot of my friends were firefighters, but not for a career. Like you said, a lot of people tried it for a bit. Very few of them decided they wanted to do that for the rest of their lives yeah yeah, what was it that attracted you to firefighting?
Speaker 3:I think it was that same kind of thing that attracted me to construction in a way, because I couldn't imagine sitting at a desk typing away like there were people that knew exactly what they wanted to do, from grade nine, you know but did they, did they or did someone just tell them what they were gonna do?
Speaker 3:or that. Yeah, but for me it was. I, firefighting was one of those things right, was so interested in it and I didn't know anything about university or any of those complicated courses. I was like firefighting, that's it for me.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna do that it's kind of like what you always said when you were little. We're like what do?
Speaker 3:you want to do when you grow up and you're like firefighter. You just stuck with it, you just stuck with it it's something that was comfortable in your brain, and I was always used to being um in male dominated spaces as well, so it was yeah, it's normal yeah yeah, why didn't.
Speaker 1:Why didn't you stick it out what happened?
Speaker 3:well, I graduated, I got my d-dad license. I did all of that and. And I realized that I would have liked to do it more as a volunteer one day.
Speaker 1:Like a volunteer firefighter in your area.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, Like hopefully in the future move out of the city type deal yeah.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, I got some friends that are the small town volunteer firefighters. It's still more work than they expected. Oh for sure, but you get to scratch that itch, you know yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's a bit of a thrill-seeking thing too, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure because, like I mean the firefighting it's like you want to be a, a care worker or like a health care worker where you are there on site, but you also don't want to be a nurse, you don't want to be taking care of people all the time right and you want to have the the thrill of the call and the work, but then it's also like and helping people, but then it's also, yeah, the risk and the danger and horrifying it's, yeah, exactly, it's like you know you're giving yourself ptsd like on purpose oh yeah
Speaker 3:yeah, and it's like everyone always talks about the dangerous fumes of firefighting. Like my stepdad is the firefighter and I'm like well, I traded those fumes for welding fumes yeah, yeah you still?
Speaker 1:gotta wear. You still gotta suit up, you gotta wear all this gear and oh for sure before you even go into work.
Speaker 3:I'm the queen of ppe.
Speaker 1:I'm the queen of ppe let's that's great, I was just talking to someone. Uh, geez, was it. Yesterday I was at a career fair and I ran into an old friend of mine, an iron worker, paul groniak, and uh, we were talking about getting old because we've been welding since we were kids and I said said you know, I'm just waiting for the ball to drop because I welded.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:I welded chrome for like 20 years without a mask.
Speaker 3:With nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1:Like right, and now you read articles and it's like, even if you're around, chrome for like one day it'll take 10 years off your life. I was like what you know it's like. So I I think about that. I'm like man. You know, 30 years ago we knew to wear earplugs and we knew to wear ice glasses, like the obvious things, but we just kind of trusted the that the electrode fumes weren't that bad for us. Like we didn't like I mean, we would just open the door and let the wind blow it out and that was good enough right, like no respirators or anything I know like I didn't even see someone wear respirator until, like, I was 10 years into the industry and then it was weird they would get made fun of.
Speaker 1:It was like oh say, you're so safe, and like people would be mean to people being safe.
Speaker 3:It's weird like well, it's even like it goes with anything like I ride my bike to work and all the guys I work with also ride their bikes work. Now I'm the only one that wears a helmet. I'm like guys, ride in toronto, wear your ppe yeah, you must wear.
Speaker 1:I wear my helmet on my bike, but it's funny because I didn't now I know, now I know right, like I mean exactly well, I guess, if you're a welder today and you're not wearing your ppe, something's weird, because now we know right, it's when, uh, when the new guys are trying with cool welding in their t-shirt I'm like check in with me tomorrow see
Speaker 1:how that feels so. You decide after meeting alicia, who's wonderful. You know we worked with her for a bunch of stuff. She's a great girl and I think she's on her second child now. So that's great, you know yeah, yeah, oh, my god so that's good, and you decide that you this making of the rose is a turning point in your life and you want to pursue welding so now what? What do you do? You go home, you're all pumped about welding, and how do you even start thinking about getting into it?
Speaker 3:because that confuses a lot of people yeah, I was so scared but I just knew I had to pick something and run with it and like that pivotal moment with Alicia it was like this made me so excited let's just go for it yeah so I got everything together and I live very close to George Brown uh campus and I'm like I'm only gonna apply to George Brown and they're gonna take me so.
Speaker 3:I I applied to George Brown and they took me and it was just the start of something so great like I'm so happy that I made that decision it, yeah, it yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1:So the program you decided to take, like the Fitter Welder Program, first of all, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3:This program is the Welding Techniques Program.
Speaker 1:Okay, Welding Techniques Program Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So there was a fabrication class and that was in the second semester of it, and that was kind of when I found my niche.
Speaker 1:Okay, so explain to me. Yeah, Cause I before the interview I didn't. I said you know, I don't know too many students from George Brown. So like, what are the? What was the program that you signed up for, Like length time, and what is it? What's in it? So this is another reason why I took it.
Speaker 3:It was eight months, okay, so one school term, right, yeah, and so it. So the first semester focused a lot on the basics of stick mig and then, um, we didn't introduce pig until second semester and we just had basic my allergy. Um, math for welders, which was incredible. I use it every day at work and I'm so happy that that was the course that's the math they should teach everyone.
Speaker 3:Honestly, it's the best math oh my gosh, it's the best and it makes sense in your head, which is great and um yeah. So first semester was very, very basic Blue print reading, et cetera. Second semester was more focused on keg. We still had six hours of stick a week, which was quite a lot compared to two hours of makes, but it's okay and um, that's when we had our fabrication class as well okay, and then after the two semesters, you're what happens.
Speaker 1:Is there a co-op to help you find a job? No, do you get out in the world do you get to uh challenge any cwb tickets at all? Come up with any certs at all?
Speaker 3:We got to challenge our sick slot for CWB and did you get it. Yes, I did get it. It was a really good experience actually. Our inspector was super nice and made us all feel super comfortable, so that was good.
Speaker 1:Awesome. And then they cut you loose.
Speaker 3:They're like get out there young young people and get to work yeah, and so a big part of that for me was I don't have a job after this, right like I quit my job to go to school. So I started looking for jobs before second semester started and I had one day off a week with school. So I was telling everyone hey, I can work thursdays and then, after school is done, I can be full-time, and which is a very hard ask to ask yeah, yeah employers right yeah but people are looking for people like crazy.
Speaker 3:I'm sure you got some takers yeah, well, the one taker that I liked is the one I'm working on now.
Speaker 1:Still, yeah it worked out good so it worked out good. So, yeah, let's, let's, let's you know this program that you took, how many women were in your class and when you took the program uh, I believe there was eight, which was pretty good. That's good, yeah, and all different ages, as which was pretty good, that's good, yeah, and all different ages as well, which was nice.
Speaker 3:Like we had people straight out of high school and we had people older than me. So I was really afraid that I was going to be the oldest person there and I wasn't. Yeah, but even if I was, it would have been fine. Everyone was super nice.
Speaker 1:Good yeah, now the program you you took, you know you, you feel I guess you're gonna come out of any program feeling pretty good with yourself. You got good marks, you feel pretty confident. But then you know you also are just scratching the surface of what welding is right because so green yeah, you're still so green and there's also like I mean, and then there's welding and then there's fabricating, which are two different trades, that they hold hands all the way, but they're two different kind of red seals.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, did you did.
Speaker 1:You kind of know that you would want to go down more of a fabrication road. I mean, I think the construction background lends really well to fabrication, because it's kind of the same yeah, so one of our teachers um shout out to edgar, I know he'll listen to this hey edgar, he was incredible, he, and he was started off sitting and fabricating um and learning from him was.
Speaker 3:I can't even put into words how grateful I am for him. He was the one that brought that idea to my head and he taught that fabrication course and I don't think if he wasn't there and didn't teach it, I probably wouldn't have had such a strong interest and applied to the places that I did, right, right. So it was really influenced, honestly, and then that got me to be so interested in that part of it.
Speaker 1:So a lot of the fabrication work out there is either tied to usually structural or like, whether it's industrial or commercial or kind of repair or custom fab for industry, whether it's mining or lumber or power generation or whatever you're building stuff. So what kind of work did you get into?
Speaker 3:So my shop does custom architectural fabrication and also custom public art. Oh, wow. So I got extremely, I like to say I found a unicorn of a shop, because I did not expect to get into a shop where I would be creating art. It's so cool, like right now we're working on a giant staircase, which is amazing, because they have me working on the stringers and stuff and it's like, well, I'm working with these giant pieces of metal like fitting little puzzle pieces together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's incredible, I love it the the hard part about uh art, installation or commercial art is that it has to be so perfect because people really look at it. You know if you're doing an industrial staircase in the bottom of a mine. Yes, it needs to be safe and yes, it needs to be done well, but no one looks at it. No one's like, oh, someone spilled their coffee on that or something you know what. I mean oh no, but when you're doing commercial installations, people look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even the staircases too, like their art in itself, they're yeah, we're doing a giant six floor spiral staircase right now that's awesome, crazy, it's crazy so as a young woman coming into that shop, you know how important was it to have the support of the people around you. Like did you feel scared getting out into, like, the real world of welding?
Speaker 3:So my boss likes to make fun of me, because when he called me, I asked him what if he wants me to bring my gear right? And he's like, oh, you really want to do this the right way, don't you?
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, I learned this.
Speaker 3:Like get me in there like put me, and I had never done a cwv test before. And I went to the shop and he's like can you flux core? I was like I'd done flux core once and I'm like yeah, let's go and I did my first cwv test through the shop, so it didn't get sent out anywhere, it was just for them and, um, he liked it, I passed and that gave me a lot of confidence.
Speaker 3:I was like okay, he knows, I'm not just here to screw around and yeah, you're gonna have a real job you're gonna be involved yeah yes, exactly, and so I I didn't feel scared, I was more excited than anything really, and was I was only working Thursdays at the time with school, and it was. I didn't want to mention anything to anyone because I also didn't want to jinx it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, or come off like a brag yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Right and uh, so I just kind of held it in until I knew I was going to be full time after school and I was like everyone how did your class do in general?
Speaker 1:like, how did? How did everyone, did everyone graduate? Um, because, like I mean, I hear about, I hear it every day, the shortage of welders and I'm hoping that every class out there is everyone, everyone passes.
Speaker 3:A little bit of a humble brag, but everyone in my class which was 23 students, I think 24, only two people didn't pass their CWB test, so that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good yeah. I just got an email this morning about a sad student who failed a Cwb test today and was like I'm losing, I'm losing hope, I don't know if I should continue. And I was like, no, you gotta stick it out, it's a long career, you got a long life ahead of you, like one of my bosses when I was waiting for the results, because I'm my own work critic, obviously we all are yeah and I'm like I definitely failed.
Speaker 3:And he's like why do you keep saying that? I'm like I'm just preparing myself? And he's like well, it took me three times to get it and I was like okay, If it takes one of the bosses. That long that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a good time for a break. Let's stop here and go for our advertisers and then when I get back I want to talk to you more about like there's like a few kind of notes I made here about your career and how you got into it that I think are pretty key. So, uh, we're gonna go talk to our, let our advertisers do some talking, and they're gonna blab to you about the great people that sponsor us, and then we'll be right back here with cassie zinga on the cwb association podcast.
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Speaker 3:I feel like I lucked out. And I say I lucked out, but I also worked very hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you chased it.
Speaker 3:It sounded like you're pretty uh, you know focused on that place yeah, there was two shops that I really, really liked and they're actually in the same, like five minutes away from each other and I was just like. I want one of these. So bad like, but they both.
Speaker 1:They also collaborate sometimes too, which is so cool even better, even better yeah so a couple of the things that I noticed when you were talking that I think is important for the listeners is your first, desire to get more information. And you just go into Google and having like Alicia show up, you know, on on, on your, on your feed and going to this instant internet world. So, like you go to Instagram, you go to TikTok, you go to facebook now and you will see so much, like so many more people now promoting the trades right now. For someone like you who kind of doesn't know much about it but was just curious, how important is it to to be able to find these mentors online?
Speaker 3:it is so important Like I didn't realize how big networking would be in the trades. I had no idea. And I personally made an Instagram when I started school just to post progress and stuff. But connecting with people on that was so key Because if I had a trouble, a trouble, if I had trouble in class that my teachers couldn't answer, or something like anything I would message someone say hey, look at this, why does this look like this?
Speaker 3:yeah, can you help me what? Or even just hey, that looks great. Keep going, you know and it's important.
Speaker 1:How did you find the support to be online? Because I know that some people and I hear it every now and then, but I don't necessarily agree but a lot of people are like, oh, you got to watch the haters online. There's so many haters, there's so much negativity online. I haven't had that experience. I find that most of the people online are really supportive of me and sure, I have a hater.
Speaker 3:Here and there someone says something mean, but it's like very rare, to be honest I think the only time I ever experienced anything or saw anything like that was we had a portfolio class at school and we had to make a linkedin profile as part of our portfolio class. I'd never had one before I I didn't know what I was getting into. We had to. We had to post pictures of like five posts for mark and I posted a um practice flat thick plate and I didn't have run on and run off tabs.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh this circulated and I was getting bullied really, what are you doing? Why aren't you? Why don't? Where's your runoff tabs?
Speaker 3:yes, oh my gosh, and they were. It was all grown men. I was like oh no but that was the only. Thing.
Speaker 1:It was pretty harmless and yeah, and that's LinkedIn, that's like for boring people anyways.
Speaker 3:It's so funny, oh my God. Yeah, but on my Instagram, nothing. Everyone's so supportive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and as a woman, you know how important was it to find programs like Women on Site and to find programs like the Instagram groups that are out there, which are some very big ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah, find programs like the instagram groups that are out there, which is very big ones. Yeah, so it actually started with when I went for the open house at george brown, we had a female welding tech on site and seeing her there telling everyone about the machines, the program, like being so knowledgeable I was just like oh my gosh, amazing yeah.
Speaker 3:I have her to look up to during the program, so I had that in-person female um inspiration and then all these online personalities I guess that I could reach out to and I I was just talking to a friend about this the other day I was like I looked up to you a year ago and I still look up to her, obviously but, I looked up to you like you were some celebrity and it's just so cool to now be on that same career path as that person I was looking up to yeah, you can talk shop and it's like you have a common language.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, it's so cool yeah I love it, I, I, yeah no, it's great and like are you starting to see now that perhaps you could be that person for others?
Speaker 3:I had a guy message me from high school and he was like I thought you, like you went for a second career and all the stuff and you really inspired me to go back to school. I was like oh my god it's happening. It's happening yeah I was running around my shop I I was like, yeah, I put this message I got. It's so true. I would love to have someone look at that and go, oh, she did it, I can do it. Yeah. Obviously yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the things I think that is most inspiring for people, without even them knowing it, is that just being your yourself, just being your authentic self and succeeding opens the door for other people to want to succeed, because they see a little bit of of you in them, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, and when I was listening to a previous episode that you had posted I can can't remember who said it, but they were like some people were messaging me, saying you don't, I don't know, you don't know me, but you inspired me to go back and do something else and like that's incredible. Yeah. To have such a positive impact is so cool.
Speaker 1:Now in your job. Now you know what, what. What's your goal? You know. Are you, uh, the type of work you're in? Are you required to get your red seal? Do they want you to get more certs? You know because you got a job, and what happens to a lot of people that start an apprenticeship is that they stay in apprenticeship forever, like I I run into people that are 30 year apprentices because they never went back to finish it off you know, like are you?
Speaker 1:are you concerned about that or are you? Do you have a plan for finishing out your career? Your, your?
Speaker 3:I guess not your career, but your, your education yeah, so that was one of the first things that I asked the shop. I said would you be interested in having me as an apprentice so that I can get my red seal? Yeah and they have never had a registered apprentice like through um material fitting and fabrication?
Speaker 3:yes, through the ontario apprenticeship. They'd never had one before, but they were armed open, ready to go taking eating for apprenticeship. So my goal is to get my red seal in fabrication fitting and then possibly in welding after that's awesome.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, thank you for doing the fab, the fitting, the metal fitter apprenticeship, because it's dying. There's very few people getting that red seal anymore no um, it's like a dying trade and it's very sad for me because I I love it so much, I've been able to work on so many amazing, amazing projects because of that red seal. And I think about the future. I'm like who's going to be doing these things, who's going to be learning how to?
Speaker 1:because to be an actual fabricator, red seal, you got to know trigonometry and algebra and you go yeah it's advanced mathematics and and you can't just always trust an engineer like you got to be able to work the math out yourself, right, and and that's kind of dying right I know I just had this conversation with my boss on last friday is the shop drawings?
Speaker 3:yeah, we have. The engineers are sending stuff in, but he tweaks so many measurements and, yeah, he's a fabricator by trade yeah and he's like I really want to get you in on the shop drawings so that you can also learn this stuff yeah so that my goal is to be as knowledgeable as I can be. Honestly, I want to be the person that someone comes to they're like. I don't know how to do this.
Speaker 1:Let's ask kathy you know, yeah, yeah yeah, right now I am so far from that, but oh, they could be like wait, hey, how do you do, uh, your, how do you set your flux core machine? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Still something useful, still useful, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:What's your family think? Like your family like what's your family think. You know you move away, you have a couple different careers. You're trying these different paths. You know, at some point I'm sure your mom and dad or you know your family, was like pick something already. What are you doing, cassie? What's going on?
Speaker 3:it was. My mom was afraid of me leaving my last job because I made really good money there, I had amazing benefits, that really good time off and everything. Why are you leaving?
Speaker 6:this You're pretty much set at the job if you want to say I was so bored Max I was like I can't do this.
Speaker 3:My dad, on the other hand, he's like just go for it, do it. And now they're both my biggest friends, my dad is so funny, he's my, they're both. My dad is so funny like he'll I. I made him like silly little things at school and he held it like okay, look at me, look at this. Can you make my friend this like?
Speaker 3:but he knows, I'm just he knows, I'm just both of them know, I'm just so much happier in actually going to school and then getting a job after, instead of just letting this fizzle out, was they're like okay, she found it, she got it.
Speaker 1:And like in terms of living in Toronto, like this is something that came up last year when I was doing some work with the Toronto chapter and it was a question of like, okay, you know, do welders have a life? That's like a good life in Toronto, in the GTA, because it's a lot of things like, oh, I can be a computer designer, but that's not enough money to live in the GTA. Or I can be this, but that's not enough money to live in the GTA because it's so expensive. Now for yourself, you know, do you feel like you can be a welder and live in the GTA?
Speaker 3:you know, reasonably, yeah I think that no one can live reasonably in toronto and buy a house by the gpa maybe maybe welding, welding. Yeah, like right now. I rent and I'm very much comfortable with working at the shop I'm at, I ride my bike to work, which is incredible, it's close by saves you a ton of money, yeah oh for sure, but everything's so expensive in toronto now that I don't even know the ceo can whatever company it's, it's, you know.
Speaker 1:it's why you say that, not even the ceo, because I always joke with bosses about that because in saskatchewan we have all the ceos from ontario living here. They run huge companies in Ontario but they live out here. You know they got the huge mansion at the lake and they love they come out here every summer and they and I'll run into them and they're like oh yeah, no, I'm the CEO for like CIBC in Toronto.
Speaker 1:It's like well, what the heck are you doing out here? It's like, well, I can't live in Toronto. It's like what. I live in Toronto. It's like what? I know it's crazy. But and so what's? You know you want to get that red seal and do you see yourself you know, obviously working with this company for a long time. But do you have ambitions of perhaps owning or doing your own thing like Alicia's? So independent? I know she's a mentor to you. Do you see yourself doing something like that?
Speaker 3:so my ultimate goal would be to move out of the city eventually. I want to at least finish my apprenticeship yeah apprenticeship uh in toronto and I would love to buy property outside of the city, be a volunteer firefighter and then just make really cool stuff for people that would be. I don't know the logistics of it all, but that is the pipe dream that sounds like a pretty solid dream.
Speaker 1:Like I mean, most welders, I know that just want to make cool stuff, for people are doing really well, to be honest they never run out of work because you know, I did an experiment about five years ago when I was teaching at the college. I was like when I was young I was always so I don't know ambitious that I'd always have like two, three jobs on the go. So I was like working 16, 20 hours a day, every day. It's just. I just love that feeling of doing stuff.
Speaker 1:And then I, when I started teaching at the college, I thought, okay, you know what I've, I've paid my dues. I could slow down now. So I kind of shut down some of the side hustles. And then summer came around and I get summer's off right.
Speaker 1:So I was like well, all the doc or all the other teachers, they just like do nothing for the summer, they like relax and like you know. But I'm not very good at doing that. So I literally put an ad in kijiji being like because could you use free, right? And I was like yeah you know what? Certified welder looking to pick up work over the summer, odds and ends. You know we'll charge uh by by, by peace. You know like I'll just. You know we'll decide when you bring it in.
Speaker 1:That was a big mistake I got like I got like 300 emails like first day no way there was so much work for me to do and I realized that we sometimes forget about little things. We get hung up that every project needs to be a thousand dollars or every project needs to be ten thousand dollars or I need to make ten thousand dollars a month to survive.
Speaker 1:Or you forget about the fact that a lot of little old ladies have a broken kitchen chair that they're willing to pay 40 bucks to fix right right yeah, and if you have the, equipment that's right, that's right and there was a lot of like brass um frames that had broken for like antique brass frames and no one fixes those right, I can fix that with oxy fuel, you know I can go buy a brass rod for three bucks at princess auto and torch that together and so yeah I had dump trucks pulling up to my house to get like a panel fixed, a chairs, kitchen tables, lamps.
Speaker 1:I made like 20 grand over the summer you're back to work in those 20-hour days, just like that it was, and I was really amazed, like that's not a job you could do, like with staff, like you don't need to hire people, but when people are like I don't know what I'll do for extra money for me, I learned the lesson like if you're a welder fitter, if you're a fabricator, and you have these skills and you have some basic tools, granted, I got a lot of tools. I had invested in my tools over the years, so I got a drill press I got, you know, pedestal grinders.
Speaker 1:I got welders, I got these things. If you got the basic tools to work through, there's always money to be made, you know so if you're saying like I want to be the small town welder.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, shop guaranteed. There's going to be so much work for you in that area fixing equipment, fixing this, building things for people or people. Yeah, lots of people have ideas and they just need someone to help them make it because they don't know how to right. Yeah, I got a lot of people have ideas and they just need someone to help them make it because they don't know how to right. Yeah, I got a lot of people being like, oh, I want to make like a, a custom surround for my hot tub. Is there anything that doesn't rust? Like, yeah, the stainless or aluminum. Well, I want to get a fancy design in it.
Speaker 1:I'm like, well, just draw it on a piece of paper. I would literally just photocopy that, import it into cad and get it cut out at a laser shop and done yeah, you know what I mean like and it's great, like it's great.
Speaker 3:That's another reason why I wanted to join a trade as well, because it you are able to move to a remote spot and they'll have work, you know yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, what about the other parts of your dreams? You know your firefighters, um, welding, you know like welding is, uh, like I did welding first and then fab. You're doing fab first and welding. And just fyi, when you have one red seal, you don't need as many hours for the second one.
Speaker 1:You knock a whole bunch of stuff off, so it doesn't get easier yeah you know, do you want to like at some point, if you want to get that welding red. So you're gonna have to get into a welding shop. You're gonna have to put in straight welding hours what kind? Of work would you like to do for that?
Speaker 3:I haven't thought that far ahead yeah, um, I have a few years now I have a friend right now um pandora. Actually she just finished, she's in her third um third block of schooling for fabrication and she just got a job um a welding job for her out of the city okay, so she's kind of I always joke with her and I say I'm one step behind you like I'm right on your heels. You're chasing her down yeah, yeah, so probably follow something similar to her and just get something out of the city to well I'm good to do well I haven't talked to her since before her third block.
Speaker 1:I know that I had you know. I told her that if she needs any help, let me know, because I miss teaching she has been so good to me.
Speaker 3:Our shops are very close. Well, now she's not there anymore. Our shops are so close together, so if I ever had any questions or anything like, she bought me a blueprint book before she left, she's like this will really help you.
Speaker 1:I was like thank you is it the ipt, the blue, the one with the blue cover? Yeah, yes, I told her about that book. I remember, I remember I think it came up in the podcast, to be honest, because I think I sent her the email after being like, you got to get this book. It's going to be so helpful for you, yeah yeah, it's got little quizzes in it, yeah, yeah and it's got all the breakdowns for, like, how the math works, which is so nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I never thought I'd be excited about a blueprint book but here we are.
Speaker 1:It's like on the coffee table. People are like that's so boring. It's like no, no, no. Look, if you lift a load that's over three tons and you're off center, you need to do a six inch blah, blah, blah and you're like what?
Speaker 3:are you talking about my life today?
Speaker 1:trying to lift off center crazy things. Yeah, yeah, that's fun.
Speaker 3:You guys got a big crane in the shop, then is it a big shop uh, so we have one shop in toronto and then we also have a shop in etobicoke and I was at our etobicoke shop today and we have a nice crane in there. It's a big boy, but at our shop in toronto we just have a little gantry crane it'll just be, the gyp grains yeah yeah, but it's right over my table, which is great yeah, then you can do everything.
Speaker 3:Perfect, yeah, yeah yeah, it's great because I hate, you know how it is you hate asking for help with things that you don't want to bother everyone. Obviously I do ask for help, but when I get that crane I'm like I can do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's, it's always and it's fun to be strong. Like welding makes you strong, right?
Speaker 3:because like fun to be smart and strong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly yeah like, whenever I work with wood, like my carpenter buddies, I'll be like, hey, you want to come help me out at the, you know, building a garage or something? I'll make sure. And I go to grab like plywood and they're like, oh careful, that sheet of plywood's heavy. It's like you don't know what heavy is. Wood's not heavy. I can pick up a sheet of plywood, get out of here, try picking up a sheet of 14 gauge.
Speaker 1:Good luck now we have to be careful about our back lots of thing you know, don't be, don't be irresponsible, because you only get one back and you you come across a lot of welders with back problems in your life and it's from lifting them, those heavy things. So I mean one side of it. It keeps you in shape. As soon as I quit welding, I got fat. When I was still welding I was always in good shape and then as soon, as I got it all the time yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And as soon as I got a desk job, I was like oh man, I'm falling apart because you're so used to being like I eat so much now yeah, yeah well you have to. I'm always hungry yeah, you have to. You spend so much energy. And how much water you drink when you're welding, it's like liters. Now it's hard for me to drink a liter a day. I'm like, oh my god, what's wrong with me?
Speaker 3:my little brother is a journeyman carpenter and he's like yeah, welcome to eating as much as you want.
Speaker 1:I'm like nice now, one of the things you said that was interesting, I don't yeah, that gym gymming is for people that want to show off, I guess. But yeah no, not me, you can have that yeah, one of the items you brought up that I thought was interesting when you said you wanted to move to Toronto is that you were following music. Did I catch that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I loved the music. Well, I still love it, but I loved going to local shows. I would take the train from Whippy three times a week. It was so I don't know how I did it. I would go to work the next day and everything and just fell in love with the community and the local scene in Toronto and that's what really drew me here.
Speaker 1:Like I love music. I was a musician myself and I totally get that, and I think that it's kind of one of the privileges of being in the trades too. Like I got into the trades young, so I always kind of had a good job. So whenever concerts would come up that I wanted to go to, I could go yeah, you could afford them I could afford it which was so fun because I love going to shows, like I'm gonna go see lincoln park here in september in vancouver right, and it's fun because I'll have a friend just reach out and be like hey, vancouver, september, lincoln park.
Speaker 1:I'll be like yeah, yeah I'm in like let's, let's do it, buckle up, you know, and. And even with local shows, it's like you know, uh, you can just go and and you see so many people in the trades at those same shows you do.
Speaker 3:Yes, for sure yeah yeah, and you get to talking to people and you're like, wow, we all have to be up at 5 am tomorrow. What are we?
Speaker 1:doing so. True, and are you? Are you a musician at all? Are you into? Are you artistic?
Speaker 3:I am artistic, but I am not a musician. I could never get it quite right, but I I do. I paint. Yeah, are you a?
Speaker 1:painter, you do art. And what about metal art? Have you gone down that path at all and experimented at all?
Speaker 3:I do silly little things for friends at the moment. So the last thing I'm by silly yeah yeah, I made this little like metal chicken for a friend out of like nuts and bolts I actually have that sounds adorable I made this little discota chair the other day oh well, I haven't posted it yet, because it's for someone this weekend.
Speaker 1:Well, they won't see it until after this. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I love it because it's for my sister's mother-in-law and she was like I'm like what do I bring her? And she's like, make her something, make her something cool. I'm like I'll figure it out. So I'm very lucky that I have a shop as well.
Speaker 1:That will let me stay after hours and I was gonna say like do you have a place at home you can build things, or not?
Speaker 3:really, I not with metal yeah, I don't have any machines um, but work is so good about that like good billy, you come in on the weekend, play around, stay after hours, no problem, use the safe and like in your family now, like your home, you know.
Speaker 1:You said your, your partner is a plumber and you're a fabricator, you know is it? All is it shop talk all day at the supper table.
Speaker 3:Do you want to know what he got me for my birthday the other day?
Speaker 1:A grinder, a new five-inch grinder.
Speaker 3:No, he got me an impact drill and a drill and an oscillating tool. So like one of those kits? Yeah, from Atlas. Yeah, yeah. And, oh my God, he's more excited than me all the time with that. We have a huge shelf in our bedroom. That's just cool. I'm like this is gonna be crazy or like he found a plumb bob the other day at a site. He's like I got it for you, don't? Worry you'll have your own plumb bob look at this beautiful plum Bob.
Speaker 1:It bobs so well.
Speaker 3:It is so plummy yeah it's a solid few hours of shop talk when we get home from work, figuring out what we did with each other's days, but it's good.
Speaker 1:It's good. No, I think that that's wonderful. I think it's kind of what crushed the trades 20 years ago is that we stopped doing that. We would only be like, oh, how did you do it? It or how did you do in your computer science or doctors and lawyers? And we didn't give trades people the voice.
Speaker 1:I remember my dad was a boiler maker and we would talk shop at the dinner table. And then there came a time when my dad wanted me to go to university and was like ah, you know, don't waste your time on shop, don't waste your time in time. When my dad wanted me to go to university and was like ah, you know, don't waste your time on shop, don't waste your time in the trades, you're smart, you can go to university. Blah, blah, blah. And I remember thinking like, why is that? Like almost like you're asking me to look at this as not good enough and this is better. When I've grown up my whole life with you talking about work, I just I always thought it was cool that what you talked about and you'd bring me stuff from work, you'd bring home like little ball bearings out of broken um bearings so that I can use it my slingshot.
Speaker 3:You know stuff like that yeah, yeah, I, I feel like that's definitely changing. I don't think it's looked down upon as much as it was previously, like even when I was in high school. I I don't feel like it was um and they weren't pushed as much, but they were definitely encouraged.
Speaker 1:If you were interested, you know and when you were in high school was it still like the attitude of like, well, all the smart kids go to university and all the problem kids go to the trades?
Speaker 3:because that's what it was like for me very much when I was coming up, it wasn't as much like that for me good um, actually that we had the oh yeah program a couple years after me, I think it was and my little brother took it oh, amazing, amazing great for him, like yeah. So I feel like it was definitely encouraged. He followed in my footsteps. Now I'm following in his footsteps.
Speaker 1:And then and then you know it's good Like I mean in the future for you and your partner and your friends. You know you go out, you have a life and you talk about the trades. You know you're proud of the things you do. You're proud of the structures that exist. You want your friends to know about it, and I think that that's kind of how we fix the future right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've even dragged my partner to previous installations that I wasn't even a part of yet, but I was like come on guys, yeah, we did it. Take a picture of me in front of it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:But it's so important, like for me to have something that I'm proud of and I want to talk to people about it and I'm excited about it and it's nice that I still have, like, my bosses are excited about everything we're doing all the time. Not just like oh, another day at work. Like they're on the shop floor with us yeah super stoked about what's going on awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, what about your involvement with the community? Do you, do you want to be more involved? Are you involved like there's? There's there's a toronto chapter for the cwba? Know they do a lot of stuff in your area.
Speaker 1:Um, we have, like AWMI, the association of women in the metal industries. They have a Toronto chapter. You know, you have the welder, her programs, the women on site, Jill of all trades. There's all these amazing programs. Now, Do you want to be involved with them? Do you see them as, as an are you like just concentrating?
Speaker 3:on your career for now. Right now I'm just blinders on, concentrated on the career, but I would love to be involved with stuff in the future, like when I was in school um, I got invited to the.
Speaker 3:Um build a dream gala right that's huge dream yeah oh my gosh, it was so cool and seeing everyone that was involved in that and talking to them like that would be pretty neat to be involved in in the future stuff like that. But right now, blinders on trying to make money and do cool things at work and get your skill up there. Yeah and get my skill up there obviously learn as much as I can good, good.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been an awesome interview. Just to you know, to wrap it up, I do obviously. I always ask a couple questions, kind of at the end, in terms of advice right from you.
Speaker 1:So you know, in terms of of someone coming into the gta, which can be very scary. It's a big market, lots going on, lots of even schools and programs that offer different things. What kind of advice would you give someone that's young and looking to perhaps get into the trades or and they're in the gta, like how do they navigate all this information?
Speaker 3:for the advice I would give would be go into the shop that you're interested in yeah have them see your face. Bring your gear with you. You never know what could happen you know, all that they could say is no, and so I find, even seeing from my side of things at work, I don't think that they check the email right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know they might, but not be monitored all the time. Come in Like that's how people get jobs. Make an impression yeah, yeah. Or connect with someone that you know that works at that shop.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Use the internet right. Connect with people online. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's the biggest thing connections and appearances that's awesome, that's great advice.
Speaker 1:and now, what about for for people that are, you know, kind of getting into the trades and don't know much about fabricating, because that's a trade that's kind of dying like, like we said, you know, what is it that attracted you to fabricating and what advice would you give to someone about getting into it?
Speaker 3:So welding for me was what got me into fabricating. Welding is such a small part of what I wanted to do, so once I realized I don't want to be welding all day long, I want to be making something from start to finish and be able to weld it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know. So for someone who wants to get into fabrication is for take a class. If you're able to get talk to people about it, get a feel if that's the right thing for you. Like you said, there is a lot of math with it, A lot of problem solving. You're going to get really frustrated when things aren't making sense, once I found out that my brain kind of works in that way where I can problem solve things on the fly, then I was like, okay, I can figure this out. Fabrication's right for me, yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was just looking into getting fabricate, into fabricating, and I had a mentor his name was Terry and he's like you see that blueprint, that little piece, like we're just looking at a piece of a massive blueprint, and I was like, yeah, he's like now close your eyes, can you still see it? And I was like, yeah, he's like can now close your eyes, can you still see it? And I was like, yeah, he's like can you move it around in your head? I was like, yeah, I can kind of move it around. He's like, all right, you can be a fabricator. He's like if you don't have an imagination, you can never be a fabricator, because you have to have an imagination.
Speaker 1:You got to be able to imagine what this looks like when it's done. That's how you'll catch mistakes, because if you look at the blueprint and it's just a bunch of numbers, you're gonna make a mistake, you're gonna screw something up I like that.
Speaker 1:But if you can look at a drawing and just imagine it, then that's the difference, because now you'll be like, oh wait, wait, like you'll get a gut feeling me like something's not right, because that's not the way I saw it in my head. Some you know, and then it makes you double check, right I like that.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna use that but our our lead fabricator. I would love hopefully his brain, yeah because I don't want him to get a big head. But, if I could just put his brain in my brain and just he like he's one of those guys that did exactly what you said. He can move it around in his head, he can figure it out and it's like I want to do that. I want to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes practice, it takes time.
Speaker 3:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1:He's like seven or eight years into it yeah. Awesome, well, well. Thank you so much, cassie. This has been a fantastic interview. I learned lots about your program and about you.
Speaker 3:It's been great yeah, I love being on. This is so cool any shout outs.
Speaker 1:You'd like to send anybody any hellos?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'll shout out the girls from women on Sight Pandora, patty, alicia, all those girls, kaylee from school and. Anton, yeah, those are my guys.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I hope they listen. We'll make them listen, yeah we'll make them listen. And I'm out in Toronto all the time. So I hope you get involved with the Toronto chapter. I hope you get involved with some of the local stuff going on out there, because I'm out there, you know, pretty often and I love catching up to see what's going on in the community out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it'd be great to meet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'd love to see your shop.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, come on.
Speaker 1:That'd be awesome. Yeah, oh, yeah, come on.
Speaker 3:That'd be awesome. Yeah, you should send me the information in email.
Speaker 5:I'd like to go visit. I love that stuff also. I would love that that's fun.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm like in toronto in a couple weeks. Maybe I'll just stop by right away.
Speaker 3:So yeah, you never know, maybe we'll make a metal rose oh, that'd be awesome.
Speaker 1:I've never made one. I've never actually made one of my own really yeah, yeah, I've like literally helped people make them and like organized old groups to make them, but I've never sat down and made one myself. Buddy. That is kind of weird, eh. Yeah, there's still time. Yeah, there is still time. I'm not dead yet. I'm not pushing daisies I can still make daisies. Yeah, all right, cassie. Well, take care, I'd love to have you on. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Max.
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