The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 225 with Courtney Donovan and Max Ceron
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend the Skills Canada New Brunswick Provincial Competition in Saint John, NB. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded in person to advocate for careers in skilled trades and technology across the country.
What began as a one-year contract in marketing has evolved into a nine-year journey that's seen Skills New Brunswick grow from reaching 200 students annually to engaging over 20,000. Behind this remarkable transformation lies Courtney's personal discovery and a team of five full-time staff and 80-100 volunteers. Skills NB has created Atlantic Canada's largest skills event, featuring everything from welding to hairstyling.
Check out: https://www.skillscanadanb.com/
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All right, I can check. Check, I'm good. So I'm Max Duran. Max Duran, cwb Association Welding Podcast, pod pod podcast. Today we have a really cool guest welding podcast. The show is about to begin. Attention, welders in Canada looking for top quality welding supplies, look no further than canada welding supply. With a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear and consumables. Cws has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part all podcast listeners listeners get 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Can you believe that? Use code CWB10 at checkout when placing your next order, visit CanadaWeldingSupplyca now. Canada Welding Supply, your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Hello and welcome to another edition of the CWB Association podcast. My name is Max Charon and, as always, I'm out there trying to find the coolest peoples in the world. Courtney Donovan is one of those coolest peoples in the world. We are here in beautiful St John, new Brunswick, for Skills Atlantic and Skills New Brunswick. Courtney, how you doing.
Speaker 2:Good, how are you Max?
Speaker 1:I'm doing fantastic. I am very happy to be here. I am so happy that you basically forced me to come out here.
Speaker 2:I did, I did. It was just time Like I need to bring the West out East. I need you all to know how amazing it is out here.
Speaker 1:Well and, to be honest, the CWB group has had a lot of success and investment in New Brunswick, and so it is apt that we are here to uh, you know, revel in the fruits of our investment yeah, and we have the best welder well, I um they are wonderful, we're wonderful.
Speaker 2:I'm biased, we know I'm biased, I am also biased.
Speaker 1:So, courtney, you are the executive director for skills new brunswick. Yeah, congratulations. When I first met you, you did not have that job. No, I, I started in uh as. So, courtney, you are the executive director for Skills New Brunswick.
Speaker 2:I am Congratulations, thank you. When I first met you.
Speaker 1:You did not have that job.
Speaker 2:No, I started as a marketing and event coordinator for. Skills Canada, new Brunswick, and I was supposed to be here for one year.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:That was nine years ago.
Speaker 1:And then what happened?
Speaker 2:I just I loved it. I came in on a one-year contract. I was supposed to be marketing communications. My background is definitely sports. You know did the whole university. I did do my second degree at a community college in Ontario and then kind of started on the sports route and it was great. And then, you know, there was this random one-year contract with Skills Canada, new Brunswick, and my mother had been involved since about 2009, I think at the time, in Skills, in Skills.
Speaker 1:In what capacity?
Speaker 2:She is the National Technical Committee member for hairstyling, oh. I had no idea, yeah, so my mother is a diehard Skills you know woman and she would come home every year and talk about Skills and myself and my father, who's a welder, would kind of go. That's great. You enjoy that.
Speaker 1:We don't know what you're talking about, but you love it, and your dad's generation wouldn't have known nothing about skills, right?
Speaker 2:Nothing, nothing. And he was actually. He's a teacher at one of the colleges here in New Brunswick, so just to tie it all in. But so I said, you know, maybe I'll take a break from the sport world. Apply for this. You know they're hosting a national competition in New Brunswick Sounds kind of exciting and you know, you get rolling and you're learning about the trades and I have come from an entire family of trades people and they had kept all of it a secret, All of it a secret.
Speaker 1:So for the first time Was it to to be like you need to go to university and escape this trades world like a little bit very common thing?
Speaker 2:yeah so a little bit of that, a little bit of just their own stigma about their own careers, right you've. They've heard for years that their careers don't matter, or less important than when I was going through school. I had, you know, exceptional marks, so that was very much let's go to university. And that is the route I took and it was great.
Speaker 2:But then again I come back and find the trade world, and now I'm working with my dad, who's a welder by trade, and now teaching a welding inspector program, and my uncle, who's you know HVAC technician, been with the same company for 40 years, and my cousin, who's an automotive, and so now I'm getting in their world a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then, and so now I'm getting in their world a little bit and and then we're setting up for the national. And all of a sudden we start setting up for a national and it ever seen and immediately I can't leave. How do I stay here and how do we take what we have and then grow it so that more New Brunswickers get to experience?
Speaker 1:this, so you were already thinking about the long game.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, like it happened very quick.
Speaker 1:And what year was this?
Speaker 2:then that was 2016. 2016.
Speaker 1:Okay 2016.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so I was only supposed to be here a minute and as soon as nationals happened, I knew I wasn't leaving. So how do I stay on as a marketing event coordinator past, you know, this one year?
Speaker 1:And so, and was it a one year term? Cause you were covering a leave or something, or no or was it just like one years for fun?
Speaker 2:So New Brunswick at that time only had a one-man operation, so we maybe reached about 200 students at that time purely through competitions. There was no programming, no tri-trades, but a lot of that was part of what was going on educationally here in New Brunswick. So at that time and previous to that, a lot of the shops have been pulled from all the high schools in the province.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that a lot of the shops have been pulled from all the high schools in the province.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that had a ripple effect. So you know, as the organization was starting to form in 1998, that's when we established here in New Brunswick the shops were coming out of the schools, so there wasn't the same, maybe, excitement tie in that some of the other provinces had.
Speaker 1:It felt like it was almost dying or something A little bit.
Speaker 2:You know we were really. New Brunswick was focused so much on technology then.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I teased the future and going to replace everything.
Speaker 3:We both know that hasn't happened and not going to happen and never going to happen.
Speaker 2:It's not going to happen, There'll be a lot of things replaced by AI but we need our trades people. That's right um. So again, it was just kind of the natural progression of that and seeing the importance of all these jobs and, and not having been exposed to any of this myself, and how do I change this for every other new brunswicker?
Speaker 1:yeah moving forward so you do the one year yeah, sorry, I get distracted it comes up. No, my job is to keep you on track. I got this. Appreciate you yeah so you get to the end of the one year and they say you're up, yeah.
Speaker 2:So sorry it was. It was one year. I immediately started working on. I'm not leaving, we're going to grow this. So again, provincial government was great they said sure we can continue on with, you know this grant. And then I stayed in that position for, I want to say, three and a half years, and then I eventually moved into the executive director role 2020?. End of 2019. So you know, first time coming around, setting up provincial competitions as executive director and get hit with the pandemic.
Speaker 2:So that's a, you know, fun experience a few months in. But it was great and again to move into that role and then continue to grow it. From what was a one-man show for the first 20 years, we now have five women that run this show full time.
Speaker 1:The five-woman show.
Speaker 2:It is a five-woman show. We have a full 16 board of directors that are full of education industry and every industry. Um, because that's so important to us, right? You know what are we educating these? People for it's.
Speaker 1:It's to go to industry so for you to understand skills kind of at a more grassroots level, then get into it, find a passion for it. You know very quickly, climb a short ladder right and get to the top of as ED. What kind of learning curve did you have? Because it's not just welding, it's not just hairstyling. You know which were the things you had at home. It's, you know, 40, some trades and 82 vocations. And you know how do you get your head around all of it, or do you even have to? Is it just piece by piece, Like how do you work it?
Speaker 2:Little, piece by piece.
Speaker 1:I'm still learning.
Speaker 2:I'm still learning every day, and I think that's part of what draws me to this, and the skills in the first place. You know, when I first started being, I felt like I had been left out of the trade world. So I probably took a very different approach. Sort of FOMO.
Speaker 2:I had so much FOMO, so much FOMO. So, to be honest, when I first started, especially when I was in the marketing role, as a way to try and understand and learn more, because we have such incredible teachers here and again, I'm sure every province, territory equally does, especially in the skilled trades and technology areas, but here in New Brunswick, god love them all they brought me into their shops. I tried welding, I tried all the different types of welding.
Speaker 2:So again, nail learning what the vocabulary the equipment are consumables, but also understand what our competitors are trying to achieve. Um, so then I would do the same in bricklaying. I went into roofing shops, I went in. You know I've laid brick, I've done some wiring. So for me that was really important was to figure out that hands-on and just even have that connection, have the connection, and also it's important to me that all the instructors we work with know that they matter.
Speaker 2:Their trade matters. So to me that was a, you know, a time investment that was really worth my time and it allowed me to appreciate what they were doing more, what they were trying to teach, but also, again, the love for the trade and and having a trades person take that time to teach you the trade. There's nothing more pure than that.
Speaker 1:There is nothing more pure than that. There is nothing more pure than that. I get philosophical about welding sometimes and you know I'll have these deep moments of thought and one time I thought you know it's being a trades person is an agreement between, basically, you and the earth. Right, because we're taking the elements of this planet, rearranging them in order to build right. And what's more beautiful than building? Right, because we're taking the elements of this planet, rearranging them in order to build right. And what's more beautiful than building right? Whether it's building community, building lives, building homes, building whatever. We are literally taking this earth that we've been given and finding ways to take the elements of it to create things for ourselves.
Speaker 1:And I, you know, I posted that on Facebook. It's almost like you know, what are you smoking? It's like but and I posted that on Facebook and someone was like, what are you smoking? But really it's something about the trades that's so ingrained in our societies. I know that over the last few years, many of the skills competitions in Canada have incorporated a lot of indigenous skills, and I was at the Skills Manitoba, skills Saskatchewan. They had full indigenous skills competitions running. I was at the skill skills manitoba, skills saskatchewan. They had full indigenous skills competitions running concurrently with skills, and it was wonderful bead uh, ribbon skirts, kayak paddle making, like indigenous skills and I thought you know, like the these practical skills haven't changed though right.
Speaker 1:They're part of, like, our human identity right.
Speaker 2:No, I got deep there. No, no, no, I am, I'm with you because, again. I look at the trades. I actually told Irving Oil, one of our sponsors, again here at the St John campus. You can look over.
Speaker 1:Irving is everywhere.
Speaker 2:And you can look overlook the beautiful refinery. Lovely which she's probably laughing at me again because I continue to call it a beautiful refinery. Yeah, that's the lovely glow of money. But for me, I look at a place like that and it's again the appreciation of A. How many tradespeople are there, hundreds, the skill, the hours it takes to have that level the passion that they all have.
Speaker 2:You know, I can't help but look at that place and genuinely think that is the most beautiful place because, of that Right and just understanding what that refinery produces and what that means for you know doctors, lawyers, everyone that might not know this trade world, but that day-to-day can't happen without these tradespeople and their work.
Speaker 1:They can't exist without that.
Speaker 2:First, no one can yeah you know our tradespeople are responsible for our schools, our hospitals, our where we live, the roads, the planes in the air, our toilets our fridges.
Speaker 1:It's quite literally everything right.
Speaker 2:And it's without those things, you know, we would be quite literally cavemen.
Speaker 3:Without our tradespeople.
Speaker 2:So, while there is that stigma, it's my job or what I feel my job is is to help change that and help the general public not only appreciate these jobs but have the education for A if they want to enter in them.
Speaker 2:Yeah have the education for a if they want to enter in them, but B, you know, if you want to build a house, buy a house. Understanding the difference between a Red Seal carpenter and somebody that's out doing it, and not saying that there's not good in both, but again there is that esteem for a Red Seal and just like you would not, you know, find a doctor on the side of the street to operate on your foot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, although they could, maybe, maybe they could yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe they do a good job, but you know, even again understanding what a compulsory trade is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And why?
Speaker 2:that's important and going and having that information, even just again as a person on the street yeah, to emphasize that with those tradespeople and make sure that when they're looking to you know hire someone, that they know who and what they're hiring.
Speaker 1:And they can trust it Right.
Speaker 2:And they know that those are credentials and careers that matter just as much as the university educated ones.
Speaker 1:Right Now, let's talk about what you studied. What'd you go to university for?
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, my God, what a load of questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I came out of high school very high 90s.
Speaker 1:Some people are talking lawyer, doctor, talk right.
Speaker 2:Doctor. I always thought I was going to be a doctor, and then I get, and again. So let's start on the stigma.
Speaker 3:So here in New Brunswick you can't be educated. So so heard that I took off to Dalhousie University.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't think I was there a month and went oh, this isn't science in high school, why did they set me up to want to be a doctor? Um, so you know very quickly you realize biochem is not what you want to do and also maybe not this route.
Speaker 2:Uh, so then it's. You know well, what can I take next? Because, again, we're so ingrained with you have to go to university and get a degree max. I had no idea what I actually wanted to do at the end the the timeline, like none of that's explained.
Speaker 1:Um, so, anyways, that biochem degree quickly turned to a psychology degree with with a minor in political science another poli sci, ryan, was poli science too. Yeah, it's uh actually it's very versatile yeah, well, I love my philosophy education, I love it and again, because it makes you think that's right. So again the psychology. I can dissect anything and not freak out.
Speaker 2:I can, that's that's important, it is well, and even the psychology. You work with people day to day. So, understanding the how, what, why of their thinking. Yeah, I mean, it's just a nice skill, I guess. But uh, so we finished this. You know, my parents in the trades are just like good for you Um now.
Speaker 1:You want to be an agent.
Speaker 2:No, but work in sports. So when I finished what was?
Speaker 1:your sport, because you've always been sporty since I've known you Basketball. Basketball Okay.
Speaker 2:Basketball, was it? So did the whole Canada Games thing, Did the you know provincial team going to nationals a bunch of times and it was fabulous. But that's kind of the crossover with skills.
Speaker 1:That's where I was leading with all, and that's where I was leading with all and the sports and I think that's probably why, when I got here, I appreciated it that much more um, but I'll go back to the other thing.
Speaker 2:So when did that degree uh worked for the senators? A little bit um did some soccer Canada stuff. Came back to New Brunswick to start the or help start the uh National Basketball League of Canada and more specifically the Monk of the Miracles at the time, um and again, it was great. But then, when this came, I think that's probably how I fell in love.
Speaker 2:So quick is you see the ties to sports and again sports matter so much, and they have a place and they teach you so many life skills, but then this is able to give you that, but then also set you up for your future a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have the longevity that sports camp offer Right.
Speaker 2:I mean, how many people in minor hockey actually end up in the NHL Right? Or right in in, um, not that they shouldn't try, that's. That's definitely not what I'm saying, but it's. You know, we're able to offer students a chance to come here, um, and have that same kind of Canada game type experience, but A they can do it every year. It's not every four years, so we're not worried about missing something.
Speaker 2:You can come here, you compete, you could try and go inly and again, this is helping you figure out what you want to do with your future Right and preparing you for the inevitable competitions you will be in your career. A hundred percent. I mean when they're here today they're practicing skills that they're going to do when they're out on the job site right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Under that pressure, under the time of it all, and from there when they go into industry. You know we had so many people I'll pick on welding but we had so many people start training this year because they wanted twin provincials. Well then you know, I see you, or I hear that you, as a welder, so now I'm training, so we, it naturally has all these people doing all this extra work and then that gets around the shop and I mean I say the unlike sports, they're training for competition, they're literally making themselves a more employable yeah but they're raising the bar, it's, it's raising the excellence, not only here but in the shop right and the community and in the community and having those people you know um like.
Speaker 2:We have some alumni who have won multiple medals now and they are kind of our lebron james, our c Crosby you know, whatever I call them my, most winningest.
Speaker 1:I've made up an entire word. It's great.
Speaker 2:But how do we take those people that, again, are so responsible for the safety of everything? And day to day and the building, and give them those same platforms and recognition.
Speaker 1:How do they get glorified? Or you know, we put a lot of people in society on pedestals that perhaps shouldn't be on pedestals. And then you know, like the idolatry of TV or YouTube or whatever, and meanwhile we have people that are actual amazing people that are just crushing it and doing amazing things and they're not in the limelight. I mean, a lot of the reason I have this podcast is to try to expose these stories of like there's amazing people in your communities that are doing things that are making all of our lives better. Um, and no one knows about it.
Speaker 1:like they're just like they're just doing it just because, right, just because well, and I know you talked to andrew clark while you've been here in New Brunswick and he's, you know, one of our Super gung ho. Super gung ho.
Speaker 2:The amount of welding camps that man has run and, and, and no one's making him do it Right. You know, we, we and every province has that. But that's the beautiful part. You need those champions, you do.
Speaker 1:And it's Like, and he's so wonderful, he's been coming to me since, I think, 2017. I believe it Right, because I think I spoke at a conference somewhere and he came up to me right after. He's like, I'm a high school teacher in this program and I was like, oh, like, okay, like you are on this, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's. It's amazing too, I think, you know, as we put together these competitions, as we do triathletes, as whatever we do, it's nice that we have those teachers and that there's more and more all the time, because they're also looking for the opportunity, right? No?
Speaker 2:one wants to work in a career where you feel like you don't matter, Right? So again to me, what the great thing about all of this and being involved in this, whether you're a teacher, student, industry, competitor, alumni, you coming again from the other end of the country, it's the one time everyone gets celebrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right For the jobs that they do behind the closed doors that no one ever gets to see.
Speaker 1:Well, that's my role is to help amplify that Right and then to push that out there, even just having, you know, the kids have watched for the last three days, walking through this last door here, right by where we're set up which was pretty cool spot and there's buses of kids getting dropped off and going for their tours and they're walking in and watching me interview people. They're immediately interested, they're like what's happening, what's going on? There's cameras, there's lights, you know, and I think that that's good for them to see, because we see that with sports, we see the hockey players get put under the lights and get interviewed. We see it happen with art. We see it happen with so many things. We don't see it happen with the trades, and it should be. You know like. It's almost like you know, when bill puts the final weld on that bridge that goes somewhere, they should like have a ceremony and be like hooray, bill, you finished the job. You know like, because it's actually important for society?
Speaker 2:yes, it is, and I you know when we do get on to the international competitions and outworld skills. It is nice to see that there yeah but I think we still need to work more to do that here and and not again necessarily new brunswick.
Speaker 2:But as a country yeah and um, again not to be problematic, but for better or worse, I think, things like tariffs being in the news every day people that aren't thinking about trades are now being more aware for better or worse. Like those conversations are still bringing things and industries that the general public might not typically think about to the forefront.
Speaker 1:I've had lots of friends in the last few weeks, probably know me my whole life and have no idea what I do. But be like Are these tariffs affecting your industry? I was like yes, yes, very much, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 2:And so again, that's what I mean, like not to be problematic and bring that up, but it's for better or worse.
Speaker 1:It's good to have the communication. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And again, it's at least starting a conversation. So, like we said those, people that might not be familiar with the trades know what's going on.
Speaker 1:They're at least asking the the question yeah, no, that's great, right. And I was bringing up your university earlier and your sports and your background because, as I've learned in this trade, especially once I became involved with skills and then like the competitive side of it, um, with teaching, I really started to see some of these parallel, you know, connections. Sports is one of them. The skills that are transferable from sports into the trades is obvious once you see it. It's like you know the desire to better yourself, the self-motivation, because at the end of the day, you're not a good athlete. If someone needs to motivate you, you need to motivate yourself, or else you're just not going to be at a high level. And it's the same with welding or any of the skill trades. It's not about your boss yelling at you that you need to do it better. You want to do it better and that's and that's that right it is. And you will seek information and what you need to do these things better. Now, with college, this is something that I'm trying to connect.
Speaker 1:For a lot of people there's almost like a, a black or white scenario there, like oh, you need to go to college or you need to pick the trades, like it's one or the other. You started in college, went through a number of various routes and ended up working in a trades adjacent organization. I went to university a few times for a number of different things, but I still was welding the whole time. And you're like why would you bother going to university if you're a welder? I'm like why does it have to be a choice? If anything, welding afforded me the ability to go to university with no pressure? Because now I can just learn for my own betterment. I want to start a business.
Speaker 1:Well, I can go pick up a community college course on running a business at night, because I can just pay for it because I have a job right, Like I mean fabulous, and the ability to go back and forth, and that's where I see the future. I see the future where you're in school and you're that 99% kid who just got such great marks and they put everything in front of you and say, oh, you want to be an engineer? Cool, why don't you go into fabrication? First get your Red Seal FAB, then transition into university, get your degree in materials engineering and as a combination of those two, you are going to be cut throat killer. That's going to be an amazing role because you have such a breadth of understanding that I see that cross-training to be so important it is, and even just the conversation.
Speaker 2:not that I hate the university versus college thing, but I think it's so much more important if we can find or direct students to their passion. What are you passionate about? What makes you happy? Because in 2025, I am sure there's a job somewhere that ties to that right, yeah, yeah, or let's or create it. Or create it right, Because that world now is so easy.
Speaker 1:Like GoDaddy, I have a website in 10 minutes and I can go register a business in $75. Right.
Speaker 2:Like Right. So what have? Um, just to your point, and I love your story. We we had an alumni last year he was our post automotive competitor, so he to your point yeah came to the college, took his pre-employment uh, pre-apprentice, you know, automotive course um, he ended up winning the provincial competition with us last year, came with us to nationals and we just loved him. So, while we're there, you're like grant, you're gonna, you know, sign up, as obviously.
Speaker 2:We'll see as you continue your journey. He goes well, I am, but I'm actually signed up to take business at the University of Ottawa next year. So my plan is to go to Ottawa take my degree. He goes. I'm going to actually sign up as an apprentice there, and when I'm not in school I'm going to continue to get my hours. And he said my plan is to finish my you know Red Seal concurrently to my degree. And he said then, when I finish I can open a shop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm sitting there.
Speaker 3:Exactly so smart I'm sitting there.
Speaker 2:Wow. You know you're 19 years old To have that planned and sorted.
Speaker 1:I was planning on gas money at 19, like that's my plan yeah and and again.
Speaker 2:On to your point. I'm fairly certain. Looking back, what mostly took me to university I did was basketball yeah how much was I really worried, or focused on the degree or what I was?
Speaker 1:no, it was just the means. Yeah, I just want to play basketball.
Speaker 2:I wasn't done and and we see that a lot with athletes they go on university because they're not done with that and then they kind of, you know, do whatever they're going to do, and we do see a lot of them back at college after it's funny, my son went through that he was a very, very good football player, captain of the football team, played center.
Speaker 1:They won provincials. Finished high school he he struggled with school. He never really liked the academic side of school but he loved the sports and the camaraderie he had a. He played football for a long time and had won a few championships throughout his career. And it came to the concept, the conversations of university and it was like, well, you know, with your football career, you can get into university, no problem, right. But he turned it down, turned it down. He was like I don't like school, why would I do that? It's like, well, if you don't go to school, you're not going to get to play football. And it's like, well, then I don't play football because I'm not going to just do one and be unhappy, put myself through this trauma. Basically, yes.
Speaker 1:For this. And now he's working at a construction company and he's perfectly happy and he coaches. Now right, Because he can just do that on the other side and still maintain his connection to the sport. And now he's making money because he would have hated universities so much.
Speaker 2:But even that right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's I. Just if we can talk to kids about what are you passionate about.
Speaker 3:What do?
Speaker 2:you want to do? What do you want to do? How do you like to learn you? Know, again like we. I don't want to talk about it on a moving end, but we have a young lady here today who you know. She contacted us out of the blue to start running a program for her at her high school. But when she first reached out it was, you know, I have ADHD and as soon as I got in the shop and got my hands busy, my mind just completely shut off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know that's such a beautiful thing to be able to offer someone.
Speaker 1:I think that a lot of people in the trades migrated towards them because of things they didn't know.
Speaker 2:Probably In terms of their neurodivergence. But if you know how do how do not we promote that more, but just give more people the opportunity. Give the space, yeah not we promote that more, but just give more people the opportunity to figure that out for themselves. Right, rather than a guidance? Counselor, teacher or parent just say you know, oh, you seem smart in this, or you see, this is what you should do. Why don't we just ask them?
Speaker 1:yeah, we ask them more questions.
Speaker 2:What makes you happy? Right like you're choosing to do this the rest of your life. What makes you happy? Do you like working with your hands?
Speaker 1:Do you want to sit at a?
Speaker 2:computer.
Speaker 1:Do you like being outside, do you? Like to eat the outside Right, right, like I mean.
Speaker 2:These things matter, they do, and it's, and I think again too, that will help not only the industry, but we're going to get them younger, because the average Asian apprentice right now in the province is 29. Right, it's a little older.
Speaker 1:When I first started as an old man. That's a young number, but I know what you mean, Right?
Speaker 2:But even that number has changed nationally. I think when I started and again don't hold me to this, but when I started I want to say nationally it was 24 and now it's 27.
Speaker 1:I want to say nationally. It was 24 and now it's 27. Well, we know about the aging population of the tradespeople.
Speaker 2:So it's you know how do we just give them the education or make sure it's available to them and they know the pathways. And to me, this is what skills is all about. Right, I don't here in New Brunswick and we have our Anglophone and Francophone school section or Department of Education. Then you have your private schools. You know the number of students being homeschooled is always varies. The great thing about skills is we're open to everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone's welcome.
Speaker 2:Everyone is welcome. You know, even if you're not in training, you're not in education, still come learn.
Speaker 2:And it's fabulous because you can come here, you can walk through colleges, you can see the shops, you can meet the instructors, but you're also meeting, you know, your apprenticeship officer and they can talk to you about what blocks are really like, and then you can also go and meet you know two dozen industry that you could potentially work at, and not only talk to HR, but you're talking to people that are actually doing that job for them. Right, and that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:To be able to get that information. In one space and have those conversations. I still feel truly blessed that this is my job.
Speaker 1:You're so authentic Makes me mad, that's why we get along no Max.
Speaker 2:Why do we get along All?
Speaker 1:right? Well, we have blown past our commercial break.
Speaker 1:So sorry so we're going to have to stop now for a quick moment from our advertisers, which we love. Thank you for sponsoring the show. So we're going to be right back here with Courtney Donovan, the Executive Director of Skills Canada or sorry, skills New Brunswick and right after these messages. Looking for top quality welding machines and accessories, look no further than CannaWeld. Based in Vaughan, ontario, cannaweld designs, assembles and tests premium welding machines right here in Canada. Our products are CSA certified and Ontario made approved, reflecting our unwavering commitment to excellence. Count on us for superior service that's faster and more efficient than market competitors. Whether you're in aerospace, education or any other precision welding industry, cannaweld has the perfect welding solution for you. Visit cannaweldcom today to discover why professionals rely on CannaWeld for their welding needs. Cannaweld where precision meets reliability in welding. Enjoy peace of mind with our four-year warranty on most machines. Conditions do apply.
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Speaker 1:And we are back here on the CWB Association podcast. I am Max Duran. I'm here in New Brunswick with Courtney Donovan, all right. So right before the break we were talking about, you know, obviously, the aspects of skills that are related to community, the job, the jobs, you know, sustaining the people, supporting people. But let's talk more now about specifically this skills competition. So what's been happening these last two days? How many people are here who came to see it? Walk me through this. I'm sure you've been planning this for months and months and months and months as the ed here. So what went down? What's happening?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, this is the first time we've ever had a two-day event in the middle of the week, um, and it was a huge success, very exciting about it. So the first day we had 16 post-secondary competitions. So that was the majority of them. I won't say all of them, we are restricted to you know what equipment is at what college. So there are a handful that are happening elsewhere in the province, but we had 16 run yesterday and then 11 secondary high school competitions ran today. Throughout the both days we were busing in about 5,000 students and to view not only the competition, but we had a fabulous triad trade that was made up of college programs as well as industry associations, unions, you name it from not only across the province, but we did have a few national partners, like yourself who again, as New Brunswick continues to grow, their provincial again are coming to support.
Speaker 2:As we know, these industries exist in New Brunswick and they're growing and they're strong, so it's really nice to see all that happen. The first day we also had a young women's conference, so that's our second one that we've done with the Women's Equality Branch and it was fabulous.
Speaker 1:I heard there was a couple hundred people. Yes, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:And it you know, we the high school students that come in. They have the opportunity to visit the tri-tree and see the competitions, but then they also are able to go into breakout rooms and talk to specifically female mentors who are either have a Red Seal or working in that area. Male mentors who are either have a red seal or working in that area and just talk to them about what they went through is again in the reality of working in male dominated spaces male dominated spaces in a province that has 4% women in trade.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, we are one of the lower ones. 4% has come up a lot this week during my conversations. It comes up a lot for me in my work in general. I mean mean I have a strong mom, a strong sister and a strong daughter. I don't know how we only have four percent in this trade like it's. It's. It's embarrassing, to be honest, like it needs to be correct it does, it, it does and so that again, especially as a woman, with a two-year-old daughter.
Speaker 2:That is extremely important to me. How do we normalize that? You know, I think we're making moves. It was yesterday. I will also say wrong trade, but it was fabulous that for the first time ever the electrical installation Three women on the podium. Three women. Yeah, I love it and I also like there was a woman on the podium and welding and steam Two women on the podium.
Speaker 1:Three women, yeah, I love it, and I also like there was a woman on the podium in welding and steam fitter. Two women on the podium.
Speaker 2:Like, and I was up there and I missed that. So the welding steam, fitter pipe, fitter carpentry, you know there was at least one or two women in every single one. So, having that and you know, even just being able to post those pictures, you know when other female students are looking at that, you see yourself.
Speaker 1:I mean that's part of it would be the same with Disney, it's hard to see what you or be what you can't see. That's the thing, right.
Speaker 2:And it is, and I don't know, I don't know how we would do that. Yeah, I've been trying to be a Disney princess for a long time I was going to say Disney A long time and I haven't quite figured.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's kind of working out.
Speaker 2:It's kind of working out, kind of working out.
Speaker 1:Get some vibes, yeah you haven't seen me in a dress, though, not yet. Not yet See what happens to Regina, yeah.
Speaker 2:But again, that's a piece of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. You don't see yourself in those trades.
Speaker 2:So it's really important to me Like we have women here in the province like Bella Hicks, who you know got in the trade so young and has been such an incredible advocate. Check out her podcast, yeah, she you know, she, when she was still a student, would come with by 19, she's crushing it, crushing it, oh my God, no-transcript. They come in, they see her welding.
Speaker 1:It's okay to be here, yep um, and we need more of that we need more of that in every space every space, right, you know, because it's like we're at the point where it's all hands on deck, like for trades, like it's just we need so many people, um, that it's from from not even uh, uh, a side of separation or of of excluding people, just on the side of we can't be picky anymore, like we just need so many workers like you, you know, you got blue hair, one eye and six fingers. I don't care, man, like let's go, we got work.
Speaker 2:And if you're driven right Like that is that's it. We just need driven people who are ready and willing to work.
Speaker 1:The jobs are there, the jobs are great.
Speaker 2:They're great paying jobs Again, whether you're in New Brunswick or another part of the country, so why?
Speaker 1:St John. You know, when you were looking at the setup for this year's provincial you I mean there's lots of beautiful places and wonderful places in New Brunswick. What made you pick the city?
Speaker 2:So we have a three kind of school rotation for our provincial competitions based off the size of campuses. Yeah, we rotate through an NBCC Moncton campus and then NBCC St John, and then next year we go back to CCNB Bathurst.
Speaker 1:Awesome, I've never been to that campus. I've been to Moncton a few times but I've never been to the Bathurst and Matthew Roy is a welding instructor up there.
Speaker 2:Love him.
Speaker 1:He's amazing, yeah, so, and I met one of the other instructors yesterday.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll have to get you up there. Other instructors yesterday. Well, we'll have to get you up there. So next year we'll go to Bathurst and again there will probably be at least 16 competitions. It is a huge campus.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We love it up there, so very excited to be back and see what we can do. But St John is great. I mean you look out the windows of the college and you see the refinery. This is a very industrial.
Speaker 1:I got a good tour yesterday, so I'm from Regina very industrial city. Right. Right A lot of people don't see the beauty in industry, but they don't understand that industrial cities have money. I mean, we have resources that we're thankful for. We have a refinery in Regina. We have a steel mill. You know, you guys have a giant paper mill. Pulp mills you, for we have a refinery in regina. We have a steel mill. You know, you guys have a giant paper mill pulp mills.
Speaker 1:You got the refinery, which is the largest north america, or one of them, um, you and you have mines not too far from here. You got all these things going on.
Speaker 1:One of the things that blew blew my mind this week is the amount of training programs new brunswick has for the size you know you got 14, 15 secondary students competing just in welding, representing 14 high schools, all with individual welding programs, and I was shocked by that. And then one of the instructors says, well, that's only like 14 of the 30 that we have. And I was like I don't know if I got 30 high schools in all saskatchewan that have welding programs.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and again on two sides francophone and anglophone.
Speaker 1:That's impressive, it is, and again.
Speaker 2:We, I think, are one of the first provinces to have high school bricklaying, but that's again. It's that industry involvement. You know it's what are we educating people for? It is it's for the vacancies, it's for the shortage, and you know industry needs to be involved with helping all that. But it's for the shortage and you know industry needs to be involved with with helping all that. But it's um, yeah, my brain just went on me. Sorry, it's one of those moments to the end. Oh yeah, no, I'm good, I'm good now for for you.
Speaker 1:You know, in terms of the future let's talk about. You know, for the last couple questions here, what's your future state for skills? You know you have a vision as a ed of where you want to take this. So what do you see? You know, next year, five years, um, so for one.
Speaker 2:When again I first started, we reached maybe about 200 students a year and now we're up to well over 20 000, so, um for one, this event, uh, when we first started, a lot of people said couldn't be possible in new brunswick, and now, within just a five-year rotation, this is now the largest event in Atlantic Canada.
Speaker 3:So huge strides. You're there, we love it.
Speaker 2:So, as far as the competition, you know, it's great, it's going to continue to grow within itself, but then it's, what more can we do? Is there more tri-trades, and I'm not interested in putting band-aids on things, max, what are the problems?
Speaker 1:The stateable programs.
Speaker 2:How do we find out not only what the root problem is, but again fix it from the root, then put a band-aid on it? So some of those projects I'm working on a training center.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would also have a bit of a tri-trade aspect to it.
Speaker 1:Kind of like a makerspace idea, almost Kind of.
Speaker 2:And it's again, whether it's Team New Brunswick, we're getting in there for additional training or Monday to Friday, helping, you know, fill some gaps in the education system and make sure that there's training with you know, potentially people with red seals. That's what we want to help and do more of.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:So that's what we want to help and do more of. So I say that's I say in the works here in. New Brunswick, or my aspirations for the next five years. So be in the loop.
Speaker 1:And what's your team look like here? You started with just one, then two, and how many do you got now?
Speaker 2:There's five of us full time, and then we also again have our outside of that, our HR and CPAs.
Speaker 1:How many volunteers did you have in total out here then? Because there's a lot.
Speaker 2:I'd say we had at least 80 to 100 volunteers in the last two days. How are you?
Speaker 1:liking managing all this stuff.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you sleep much.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't even sleep. I'll sleep on the weekend.
Speaker 1:No, you won't. You have a two-year-old.
Speaker 2:I do have a two-year-old, so I won't take that either. No, but this is, this is all that matters. Like again, when you come and you see the competitors and the instructors and the industry and everyone come together. It's, it's the passion that fuels it to do more for them, because I understand and have an appreciation for what those tradespeople do for us.
Speaker 2:So, if I can go out of my way to throw them a massive you know celebration and be at a competition and give them that platform, then I'm going to make that as big as I can for them.
Speaker 1:Well, I would have to say, knowing you for a number of years now, is that you undersell your passion as being one of the driving motivators. You know, when you say we went from 200 people to 20,000, we're going to have to start calling that the Courtney effect. I'm okay with that, right, like that's the Courtney effect, because you know and it came up with Ryan when we were talking about it from the deputy minister of education you have a passion. You had a passion for basketball, you had a passion for traveling. You had a passion for traveling. You have a passion for your kid. You don't do things passionless, right? And you, in this job, I feel like that's the fit. That's the fit that made this work so well.
Speaker 1:When I heard you got the ED job, I was like, oh, that's a no-brainer, because you were already like within, like I think, the first couple months of your job, you messaging me, being like, hey, I need to figure out some ideas. I got some things. What do you think about this? And I was like, holy, you're just on the ball, like you're ready to rock, and and that also translates to this competition, right? So it's not just them giving back to you, you're, you're feeding them as well yeah, but but again, I, I feel lucky.
Speaker 2:I feel lucky to be here and this is, I think, yes, this is more of an admin job, I guess. On the on the trade side. I'm not on the tools, but this is what I am trying to match students to. Right and know that you you don't have to go one way or another like I did.
Speaker 1:And like so many people did I mean I'm doing a podcast. I was a welder. Like what's the road Right? And that's one of my favorite things to ask people Right.
Speaker 2:What are you doing now versus what was your dream job as a kid? Yeah, and why didn't you do it? Yeah, and are you really happy now? And? And? Are you really happy now? And it's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Just the deep existential questions.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I don't mean, they're newbie but it's more of a, not a study, but I'm just interested.
Speaker 1:Just a self-awareness, yeah.
Speaker 2:And again, if we can start to craft that code, what does that then mean for the future generations? Right, All right yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, well, last question how do people get involved with skills new brunswick? If they're in the province and they're listening to this, how do they get a hold of the team? How do they volunteer? How do they get involved? Or, if you're a trades person and wants to help with training or teaching or mentorship, who do they reach out to?
Speaker 2:well they reach out to me. I will take anyone personally. I probably shouldn't, but I'm one of these only people that still will pick up the phone and cold call everyone.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I love it. I never answer the phone. I love talking to people. My ADHD does not allow me to answer the phone.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I will.
Speaker 1:I'll even just look at it, wait for them to hang up and then call them back, but I just can't answer it.
Speaker 2:No, they can reach out to us on social media. We have a website and it's just skillscanadanbcom. We're on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn. All the politicians, but we were disconnected and that's super important to me. So we actually moved our office to MVCC Moncton back in 2016 and, having that direct connection with the teachers, the students have really allowed us to make this growth in a pretty short period of time, with the pandemic in the middle.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I say I cannot thank the colleges and all their staff for all their support because, again, while I take care of the lunches and then you know, inviting you and the t-shirts and the registration. It really is those teacher experts.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent that make these competitions. And they're glowing too all week.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, like welding, I like. I have to give a shout out to mr scott steen and adam stead this morning because we had the welding again has taken off and it's huge and we had 13 spots for post-secondary as well secondary, and then we had wait lists and this morning we had two people from the waitlist show up thinking they were in. Yeah, hoping they were getting in and and devastated when they didn't think.
Speaker 1:And again, because the teachers and everyone are here for the student they figured it out and all 15 people were able like as soon as we're done, I'm gonna go over there and see how they did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just to me, that's what it's all about. Yeah, and I, I love, and thank you so much for coming out here. We've loved having you.
Speaker 1:And we'll see you in Shanghai. No, we'll see you in Regina.
Speaker 2:You just wait.
Speaker 1:We're thinking about it too.
Speaker 2:We're, we got some.
Speaker 1:Let's talk.
Speaker 2:We're training a little bit for. Regina so we'll see if we can intentionally put something. We've, I will admit, any time in the past New Brunswick has actually made Team Canada. It was kind of by accident, we didn't necessarily do it on purpose?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not anymore, we're here to play. We're here to play.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I hope to see many of your competitors in Regina, because it'll be very, very lovely when Saskatchewan beats them. But that's fine, we'll uh but about that, yeah, yeah we'll see about that, I mean, but this is all fair in the spirit of competitiveness always and always a pleasure to see you, courtney and always a pleasure to see you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, all right well, thanks everyone for watching and downloading and listening to the podcast. We uh make sure you check them all out from the skills can uh skills, atlantic series and uh, you know, make sure that you get back to us with feedback and, knowing what's going to happen on the podcast, catch you at the next one. We hope you enjoy the show.
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