The CWB Association Welding Podcast

Episode 241: Welding in Austria with Martin Willinger

• Max Ceron • Season 1 • Episode 241

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The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world to share their passion and give you the right tips to stay on top of what’s happening in the welding industry. Subscribe, listen, and stay connected to the people who keep the world welded together.

Grab your welding helmet, we’re going international. Today’s guest is Martin Willinger from Austria, an R&D Arc Welding Technician at Fronius International GmbH, pushing arc technology to the next level. We dig into Austria’s dual apprenticeship model and compare the hands-on intensity of Canadian training programs. Martin opens his lab door to explain the interesting work his team is focused on, and if you’ve ever fought a cast-iron repair, this is your masterclass. Come for the process insights, stay for the mindset shift!

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Martin’s Early Start And Training

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the CWB Association Welding Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Hua. Let's flip up the lid and spark some conversation. Attention welders in Canada. Looking for top-quality welding supplies? Look no further than Canada Welding Supply. With a vast selection of premium equipment, safety gear, and consumables, CWS has got you covered. They offer fast and reliable shipping across the country. And here's the best part. Podcast listeners get 10% off any pair of welding gloves. Use code CWV10 at checkout when placing your next order. Visit Canada Weldingsupply.ca now. Canada Welding Supply, your trusted welding supplier. Happy welding. Welcome to the CWB Association Welding Podcast. As always, I'm your host, Kevin Hoy. And today we have a very special guest, Martin Villinger. Hi. Did I get it? Did I pronounce it right? Totally right. Totally right. Awesome. Awesome. So Martin, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Well, I'm I'm based and lived in Austria. I live in Austria. I actually used to work in Canada for four years. Then I actually moved back to Austria, Europe, and moved to the States for a couple years. Worked there. I've always been in the welding business, enjoyed. There's so much things to learn, and yeah. Started when I was, let's say, seven. When I was seven, I did my first weld.

unknown

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

Dad's garage.

unknown

Cool.

SPEAKER_02

And that's. So I got addicted to it. Yeah, so you were born and raised in Austria. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. So so you did your first weld at seven, uh, and you learned from your dad.

SPEAKER_01

He taught me a lot. The first uh the first world was a MiG Weld, it was just uh on a piece of scrap metal, just regular mild steel. But I got really into it. I was blown away by it, you know, about the liquid metal and everything got dark, but the light was so bright, and you can kind of control it like if you do some physical drawing or whatsoever. So yeah, it totally got me into it, and then I started as an apprentice at Fronius in Austria as a toolmaker, basically similar to a toolmaker. I got the offer to do another apprenticeship as it's called Universal Welder, so basically to get in trade for welding.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I took the chance, you know, took the classes, and that's I got stuck into it.

SPEAKER_02

So how old were you when you started your training? Like, was this in high school or what North America calls high school?

SPEAKER_01

Uh sort of. Um, kind of let's say I started when I was 15. So you do primary school, secondary school, and then you either make the choice that you go higher up, that you pick university, or you go into trades. So I took basically hands-on and took the trades for welding in the end. Um, afterwards, I took some night schools for um metallography, uh, welding, you know, uh supervisors welding. So it it opened the world to me. Got to see almost the entire world. The only continent I'm missing now is Australia. Oh wow. Uh yeah, so it's really excited, you know. Welding is all over the world, it's always like the same bunch of people. Um, they enjoy welding, you know. So it's yeah, it's it's it's kind of like a small world, and you find people they enjoy it, and some people are more into uh let's say the metallurgy or more into the hands-on or whatsoever. So it's it's it's been good, it's been really good to me, to be able to say.

The Dual Apprenticeship Model

SPEAKER_02

So, you really what's kind of different between the training in North America and in Europe, let's say, because you you mentioned that you focused on welding while you were in high school, and then you had a choice to keep going with that. So I don't I don't really see that happening over here. So, what's the difference?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's something that's very common, let's say, only for Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. It's a dual apprenticeship, so you go to school for about 10 weeks a year, and the rest of the year you work for a company. So the good thing is you earn money, you learn from uh you learn from people who've done it, let's say for years. Yeah, they show you, and step by step you keep growing your knowledge, your hands-on skills, and in school you learn basically all you got to know for reading the drawings, you know, got the fundamentals of the metallurgy, not really deeply in, but to get the fundamentals, and later on you can decide if you want to stay there or keep going further. So it's common, yeah. It's common in this area, it's very common. It's not common for the rest of Europe, yeah. But it's for those three countries, yeah. Very common.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, I think that's really, really cool. I have a German friend, and he was telling me about his apprenticeship and growing up and and the things that he got to work on when he was so young. And when he got out, he kind of felt like he was very well trained, very knowledgeable. He came over to Canada, he started up his own welding business. It's just yeah. So you were saying that you also took night classes, you just couldn't get enough of welding, hey? Yeah, yeah. So now you still can't get enough. Yeah. Are you are you more of a hands-on kind of guy, or are you you are more theoretical?

SPEAKER_01

Uh let's say when it comes to the the the metal side of it, let's say the metallurgy side, I'm more let's say the the the theoretical guy because I enjoy it. I like to read books on that, especially when it comes down to cast iron welding. Um, other than that, I enjoy welding. So I'm let's say a welder by passion. Yeah, that that's that's that fits around it. So I need to do it. Yeah, it's in your it's in your blood. Yeah, I just I just held uh a good buddy of mine to do some repair weld on a tractor today, so it was good, you know. It's a little bit freezy, it's not so freezy as it's in Canada, probably, but yeah, you go out there, you take the stick rod, uh do the job, and it's cool, you know. That is cool, having a good time with your body, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's yeah, that is what's fun about welding. It's exactly especially I I love repair welding myself, so same thing. You know, it's fun getting out there with a friend and just getting stuff done and fixing it. When it's done, you feel like oh that was a great day. Yeah, yeah, it's about minus 20 here today, so it's it's it's fairly cold.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Well, we are just about minus six, so oh, it's pretty warm.

SPEAKER_02

You're doing okay. I'm in my garage, I got a heater on me. It's like, oh my god. Okay. So what do you do for work now then? You mentioned Fronius, you took your apprenticeship through Fronius, you're still with them, right? Exactly.

Passion, Repair Work, And Career Path

SPEAKER_01

It's been like 25 years now, in September. By by the end of by the end of next year, so 2016. Uh 2026, sorry, yeah. Um wow, congratulations!

SPEAKER_02

That's uh that's a good stretch.

Inside R&D Labs And Arc Innovation

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So, yeah, as I said, I started as an apprenticeship. Um, then I kind of like worked in the tech support um for welding, let's say to do the hands-on, to do world trials for customers, troubleshooting, training. That's pretty much what I worked on in Canada, Mississauga. I used to live there, and then I moved up to Alberta, Edmonton. I kind of like did the same thing, training, troubleshooting, uh, world trials. And now I'm an R D. I've been there. Well, I started there in 2016, in August. Research and development, arc technology, mostly for tick welding. Is it GMAW? Guess tank stack welding, sorry. Um stick welding, plasma arc welding. Yeah, I've seen a little bit about that. Yeah, that's um that's a very niche, you know. It's it's a cool process. Yeah. So and every now and then my manager allows me to do some stuff on guess metal arc welding, which I still enjoy. Uh exactly.

SPEAKER_02

So, what does a day look like for an RD technician like yourself?

SPEAKER_01

Like you go into the office and dive into some books, or uh, we basically work everybody has his own lab. That's pretty cool. So you show up in your own lab, you have your robot there, you have your welding table there, you got your oscilloscope there, you got a computer there. Um if you get a good idea, or if you think you got a good idea, you have the chance to try it. If it works out good, well, at the end it turns out in a product, or let's say in a sort of a process, which is cool. Of course, this doesn't take a while, you know, a few years till everything is settled down and works out pretty good. Uh, other than that, you still make or try to do improvements in the arc stability to let's say measurements and see okay what's happening there, what what could we do better or why this actually happens? And sometimes by looking at it, it all of a sudden there's a coincidence and you discover something where you think, hey, that's pretty cool. Well, let's dig into this a little bit more and a happy little accident. Exactly. Well, happy little accidents happen quite often.

SPEAKER_02

And yeah, I was gonna ask you what some of the the challenges are when you're when you're going through this process. Like you have an end goal in mind, or you just kind of let's just tweak this or tweak that and see what happens.

SPEAKER_01

Well, when it all comes down, everybody wants to make let's say arc welding easier, more efficient, let's say, so more exciting, you know. Just take the torch, weld over, let's say, if there's mill scale on it, or if let's say if there's even rust on it, you know, not everybody has sandblasted plates or beautiful milled or grinded plates whatsoever. Of course, you still fight against uh let's say the the chemistry when there's rust or mill scale on it, but of course you you would like to make let's say maintain always the same ac stability, no matter if the part is preheated or if it's let's say room temperature whatsoever, to control it, to decrease better level. Um, but also let's say for for gas tanks and arc well in, you know, let's say it's not so easy at the beginning to maintain one hand your torch, in the other hand to feed the wire. Well, let's say if you do it quite often, you're good at it, you can put pride on it, and this is awesome because this is your skill, this is what people can do, and you know, beautiful wealth. This is hell yeah, you guys are good. This is awesome to see. Yeah, but you kind of like want to offer this to everybody, yeah. And so you for instance, you you work on the torch to give better feedability, adding the wire, or let even the wire regulate, you know. So one of my things was like, Oh, is oh well, let's make tick welding more easier. So we kind of like looked at the DRC and say, okay, what is if we like say copy a good manual welder? Because a good manual welder doesn't feed the wire forward and pull it out of the weld paddle. No, he feeds it forward, stops, keeps it in the shield and gas cloud, and feeds it forward again and maintains it. So we say, like, okay, well, let's let's make uh it so that it feeds forward, uh stops, and then all of a sudden we mesh the electric field in the arc, and we're like, well, that's plausible, right? But we never thought about it. Well, of course, there is an electric field. Um, so we tried to regulate it through the electric field, but the electric field is kind of tricky to control because of the shape of the tungsten electrode, of the diameter, of the gas, of the amperage. So it's like, well, I well, we we won't succeed with this. So too many variables. At the end, we put the voltage between the fill wire and the workpiece, and so we detect the the short circuit and uh regulate it through there. So it's cool, by the end of the day, you see a product, you see kind of a process, and you're like, that's awesome, you know.

SPEAKER_02

It's uh yeah, that is awesome. So basically, you're just trying to make welding uh easier, you're trying to make welding more accessible to people.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. I think it became better the last let's say decade that welding is more of oh, people see it more, let's say, okay, we really need this this trade, or let's say we need welding and it is important. But I think back back, let's say more than 10 years, people it's more like a dirty chop, you know, of oh yeah, who wants to go in welding? But in the end, let's say imagine a world without welding. I mean, I wouldn't even sit on my chair.

SPEAKER_02

No, it doesn't exist. Welding welding touches pretty much everyone's lives in one way or another. But you're right. In the last I'll I'll say it as well, but even in the last 10 years or so, even less than that, um welding has gone back up in popularity. Like, I think I don't know what society did to kind of kill all the trades, but who's gonna build this world? Who's gonna maintain this world? Right. So now, okay, cool. Like, trades are important again.

SPEAKER_01

Welding is very important, absolutely, and it's okay if your hands are dirty, you know, it's it's totally okay. You you build things that last, that help people, and that makes life yeah, uh easier.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I like, I mean, I find it super rewarding. Um, I was never, you know, a very book smart kind of guy, math wasn't really something I was into, yeah. But then I got into the trades, and then exactly like building things with my hands, using fractions, adding you know, all these things that I only discovered once I started using my hands that really opened up my mind, but super rewarding.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, and by the end of the day, you see something you basically create it, you see a result, you know. It's yeah, and that's beautiful. Uh, to be honest, that's beautiful because yep, you finish your work, then say, Yep, that's it. Look at that, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, it's not filed away somewhere in a cabinet, you get to see it.

SPEAKER_01

Even you know, like every job, it you have days they are really frustrating, but in welding, it's like even then when it's frustrating, you go to bed and but but the next day you think, Well, I learned something new. So yeah, I always say this mystic again.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, there's always a way to get it done. Like, I've always found that in welding. Like, maybe I tried something, didn't work. Try another thing, didn't work. There is a way, I just have to find it, right? Yeah, and then that's when I start doing research or asking professionals online, it's kind of how I found you, and that's that's just part of learning, that's part of the trades, and you like never give up. There's you're gonna get it done, you just have to find that way to do it. Yeah, so being in Austria now and having lived in the US, in Canada, do you find a difference? Like, are people more passionate about the trades in North America or in Europe? What would what would you say?

SPEAKER_01

To be honest, I think they're probably more passionate about in North America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would think so. They put more pride in it, and yeah, for sure.

Training Differences: Europe Vs North America

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Do you see? We talked a little bit about training, how you trained up. Do you see any differences now? Like now that you're in your field, do you see any differences or similarities between North America and Europe? Are there people like you in North America?

SPEAKER_01

Um, what I see, let's say, in in Europe, there are certain institutes that basically have the allowance, I don't know how to say properly, the allowance to to do the world training whatsoever. But what I've seen in North America is like you have, let's say, uh really cool training shops basically, where the focus you let's say go from plate, go from the plate in in horizontal, in flat position, whatsoever, and then go on the pipe, you know, and you have all the equipment in the booth. And I was like, that's actually pretty cool how you you train the people, you know. Um here it's like yeah, you do your world certificate, and most of the training, the field training, where you need really good welders, you know, not just sitting on the table and do welding two plates together. Uh they learn it basically in the field, or let's say in the company. So companies have their own training classes, of course, in the North America as well, where they train the people, but depends a little bit on the area where you are, you know. I remember North uh Canada in the oil and gas industry. I mean, there's it welding is big times. They they want to make sure that they get good welders there, especially in pipe welding, so they put more more time in it. And it's of course. This is everywhere. This is kind of similar to Europe, of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, I guess it depends on on the industry in your area. You know, I notice here in Canada we have welding schools. So you go and you take your pre-employment course, you know, you get you get some hands-on training, you get a bit of knowledge, but nothing real world until you go find a job. And sometimes the job you find isn't gonna have every piece of equipment that you want to touch, it's not gonna have pipe welding, you're just gonna be making this thing in the corner for a little while. So, yeah, you kind of do have to go out and find it. I think you know, welding school does give you a nice base knowledge for what you need to get into the trades.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, absolutely, and it's so versatile because it covers so many different areas of technologies, welding, that you think whenever you start there and you've patient about it and you want to put more detail into a specific thing, you know, just a specific thing in welding, you can go far with it. You can go really far in it and have a good career.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So, since you're more on the metallurgical side of things, um, what are some of the common problems that you see out there in the real world, like for fabricators? You know, I I could put this table together, but I'm not really thinking about what's happening to the metal or the weld. So, are there some common issues happening out there?

SPEAKER_01

Well, what what's facing the industry more and more is let's say high-strengt steel, which is more and more common. And of course, you need to be a little bit more careful about it, how to weld it, and certain high-string steels, let's say they go up to 1500 megapascal, whatsoever, you just can't weld them with thicket or gas metal arc anymore. So you'd be a little bit more focused on it. Yeah, and of course, uh heat treatment is a big thing, let's say, to keep interpass, uh preheat temperature. Think about the moisturing, whatever happens. But the the greatest or the biggest issue I've found, or let's say um most people struggle, let's say I've patient it is uh repair welding when it comes down to cast iron to do surfacing to keep the dilution rate very low. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So cast iron is a challenge for a lot of people, you know. Some it depends on the rod I'm using or if I'm gonna try to t it. You know, sometimes I'll work at it for a few hours and I'll put it in a blanket and I'll slow cool it. I'll come back and it's still in two pieces, you know. Like, so are you more focused on the cast side of things? Because I'm very interested in in repairing cast.

Cast Iron Repair: Methods And Missteps

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. This is what I I like to do a lot. So because I like the metalogy side of it, and then I like the challenge, you know, because it's so sensitive to it, you know. You always need to be careful about it. Take your time, make sure it's not too hot, or just make it as hot as you can and then weld it, kind of. Yeah, yeah, and then find out. But yeah, I mean, I I did yeah, I did even uh cast iron repair where um I had it to cool it down and I had the the sand where I put it in sand to cool it down, and I had the sand proheated to uh 300 degrees Celsius. Uh put it in the oven. I failed a lot in cast iron, I failed a lot, but after a while I succeeded a lot.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Learning by doing it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you never know what what kind of cast you're dealing with. And and you're right, like the slow cooling process, which I didn't think of this, but you're putting this hot piece into this cold sand, uh, you might have just wrecked your piece, right? So you're preheating your sand to make sure that transition the piece doesn't get shocked. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, is there a trick that you have to determine what kind of cast you're working with?

SPEAKER_01

Honestly, I do cut an edge. If I'm I've if I'm not sure at all, because it's a uh every now and then I can't mostly it's cast iron. You see, okay, the the sparks are very darkish, you know, like a dark red. Um, but if you have it say a steel cast and it has high carbon too, well, every now and then it's pretty hard to say, you know, because you feel okay, is it soft or is it kind of hard? If you're not sure if it's something like this, I mean I do cut an edge and if nothing, if I'm not sure at all, I start using an austenitic filler rod. Yeah. And then I watch if it cracks or not. So if the crack is there, and oh, okay, well, um, going easier, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, that's that's kind of what I do. I've always I I grind it first. That's the first thing I reach for is my grinder and I check the spark. You know, if you've got those short red spark, that maybe almost purple spark, that's when you're like, oh, this is a cast iron, and it's a little it's a little bit scary. You know, you're seeing those those brighter orange sparks, maybe a little bit of a yellow color, but they're still short. You got to cast steel. But again, like you mentioned, how how much carbon is in this? I don't like I can't tell these things, yeah. But it's a good idea too to check the hardness. That I didn't think of.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean this helps, and I'm curious always.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, and it that's cool that you mentioned that, yeah, I'll just try to weld it, and if it cracks, well, we we're gonna keep trying, and we're gonna keep trying, we're gonna keep trying. Exactly. Are you you mentioned that you went out and fixed a tractor today with your friend? Are you still fabricating? Are you still doing that quite a lot?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, mostly repair welding, let's say, beside work. Yeah, yeah, work itself is more in research and development, kind of, you know, and improvements or to make, let's say, some welding programs. My hands-on job is mostly repairing things lately. I built stuff for my garage, yeah, nothing fancy, you know. Just it's cool that you you have the possibility to do it and weld it, and other people would make it out of wood. Well, I make it out of metal.

SPEAKER_02

I'm the same way. It's like I I don't ever even look at wood. It's like, how am I gonna make this out of metal? It's what I know. Yeah, exactly. So, with your research, um, do you see any welding processes being forgotten about, or there's not really attention being put to it anymore?

SPEAKER_01

That's a good question. That's a really good question. Forgotten about, um, you know, what you see is that every now and then you see that um things have been tried in the past, and all of a sudden people try it again, or the technology moves on that you say, okay, now we can handle it better.

SPEAKER_02

You know, I've seen again in in welding schools, they don't do as much oxyacetylene welding. Um, you know, but that doesn't include an arc, so you're more focused on arc welding, but you know, obviously TIG TIG is a cleaner process, so there's more attention being put on TIG.

Processes That Endure: Stick And Oxy-Fuel

SPEAKER_01

What about what about stick welding? To be honest, I do a lot of stick welding, like today. I mean, I I we weld it outside. I mean, I don't even think about using shielding gas whatsoever. I mean, it's a repair work. You know, there is some I shouldn't say probably that there's sort of paint or rust on it. Uh with the electrode, you get the deoxidation. I don't care about the shielding gas. Fantastic. Small welding machine, I put it on side. Uh just two cables, that's it, you know. Yeah. I don't care about the temperature, it's it's good for repair welding or to the outside even in the field. I can't think of that. We get rid of stick welding. It is still a huge part of it, you know. I mean, when I say huge, I mean to be a little bit careful, but it's there and it's good. Like oxidant adds of the lane welding, still good too. Like, I I haven't think about it as just before you mention it, but it's probably a year or so ago I had to do a repair weld on an old exhaust, you know, an exhaust thing, it's it's rusty, it's dirty. I use this process because I said, okay, well, I burned the dirt away with the flame, and then I weld it. I mean, you know, there's no chance to do it with tick.

SPEAKER_02

Because yeah, yeah, tick needs to be clean, always, always clean. Exactly. In in your research, though, are you focusing on something more than another? You mentioned plasma arc welding.

SPEAKER_01

Plasma arc welding basically was the the last thing we worked on so recently because the machine came out uh on the market a year ago, so now we uh basically brought the keyhole torch on the market. This to me is let's say the huge benefit to keyhole welding with plasma. Because smooth welding process, single pass, high alloy steel, look less rework or no rework. Looks really smooth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So we're gonna take a short break here to listen to our podcast sponsors. We'll be right back with Martin Villinga. JosephGases.ca, your one-stop welder superstore. Whether you run a welding shop or are just starting your welding journey, JosephGas, the Welder Superstore, is the best place for everything related to welding. Come to the site and browser top picks of welders, helmets, and welding supplies specific to your industry. Even filter out the items eligible for manufacturers' cash rebates. Our intuitive search tool puts everything at your fingertips. And checkout is a breeze. Pay securely with your credit card. If you are ready to streamline your welding supply shopping experience, visit josefegasses.ca. That's Joseph with an F, as in family. Start filling your cart with welder confidence. And we're back with Martin. Can you explain that? Because I need more knowledge on this as well. But how does the plasma arc welding work? How is the filler metal introduced?

SPEAKER_01

Similar to tick. It's like equal to tick. The big thing is let's say that you focus the arc mechanically through your plasma nozzle, so the tuxan electrode is set further back, then you use a water-cooled copper nozzle, and the uh the water coolant is the most important thing basically in the entire process because if you forget to turn on the coolant, your torch is gone.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, look, you let this there. Yeah, a water-cooled tick torch. If you forget to turn that on, you're gonna fry up pretty soon. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so and then you basically have a more focused arc. I usually say to make a long story short, you can imagine it's say from the focus point, you can say tick, it's a very wide open arc, then there's plasma, way more focused, and then there's laser, and then there's electrobeam welding, let's say. And of course, that this is the way how it works. Let's say the more focused an arc is, the less tolerances you have in the park, but the more efficient you can weld. Yeah, so it's like how precise can you weld setup be? It's very precise. Well, you can go with pretty much every process, kind of. If it's not so precise, well, you need to step back, and of course, it also you lose on travel speed or productivity. And then it comes down, okay. Well, how many parts you need to weld, you know, because electric beam is not as as cheap as tick welding, or well, it depends on how many parts or what what what what's the quality you want to achieve, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So every every process has its place, and you know, it's not every not everyone needs to be tigging apart when you could MIG it, right?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly, exactly, absolutely. And with plasma, the big thing is you have plas weld preparation, especially when it comes to butt welds, that's like the big advantage on keyhole welding. And then you have a low filler wire feed speed rate. So the cost of the filler wise very low because there's basically no groove to fill up. And then you you do not have a high travel speed, but you do want slow travel speed in one single pass. So instead of running five or six passes, you do it in one single pass, and in the end, you're safe on shielding gas.

When Plasma Shines And When It Doesn’t

SPEAKER_02

How how much penetration can you get with with the plasma arc welding?

SPEAKER_01

Uh let's say um materials with the low uh heat conductivity, let's say stainless steel is very good to weld with plasma or titanium, so all these fancy materials kinda. You can go up, let's see, to 10 mil, it's a little bit less than a half inch.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh bull pan, no seam prep.

SPEAKER_02

So just that's really crazy if you think about like the time savings, also doing one pass, you're affecting the material less. So yeah, it's I could see lots of benefits to that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But of course, let's say if you go to mild steel, let's say carbon steel, there is no benefit on it because the heat effected zone is the better the heat conductivity, the worse it is for plasma welding. That's the that's the downfall, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's no good. So you're not or you're not messing with aluminum with that stuff.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no, I'm not messing with aluminum. Um keep trying it, maybe one day. But of course, it's uh it's a unique torch design, yeah.

Lasers: Robots Yes, Handhelds Maybe

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you need to have a happy little accident, and then it'll open up some pathways for you. That would be awesome, yeah. If this happens again, yeah. Yeah, you mentioned lasers, and this comes up a lot in in a lot of the episodes. Laser welders. Have you used them? Do you use them? Do you see the benefit?

SPEAKER_01

To be honest with you, uh use the laser hybrid process just a little bit, you know. I see big advantages with robotic welding, you know, high travel speed. Um, it's like not too much heat and not too less heat. This is the big thing with laser hybrid, and you increase the gap ridge ability, and versus laser, you add additional fill metal, which improves the let's say the the quality of the world. Uh so there I see a huge pro uh huge benefit. Um regular laser on on robots, again, uh big thing. Big thing. It's been used in the industry for so many applications. I mean, laser welds are a lot in the on the market, let's say there on every product or a lot of products. With handheld laser welding, I to be honest with you, I have my doubt. I tried it. I find it's phenomenal how consistent you can keep your travel speed and how beautiful the weld looks. Um I've seen issues though when it comes to diffusion, so getting penetration. To me, then it's kind of hard to control. I see a definitely, I definitely see a market for handheld laser welding when it comes to um cosmetic seams, um let's see furniture, or to do seal welds whatsoever. But when it comes really down to high quality or to quality welds, you know, where you need a smooth surface because of corrosion resistance, kind of like looks rough under the microscope, the hand-held laser world. And I think for a manual welder to maintain consistency and penetration will be really tough. So some processes I see is manual welding, and some processes I see more on a robot. And laser to me is put it on a robot. This is where you get the highest benefit, the highest travel speed, the lowest distortion, the best penetration out of it. And tick welding, keep it in people's hands.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, that's it's I I agree with you about handhelds laser welding. I got to try it out a few times, and it's almost like you have to forget how to weld to weld with them. Like you let you let the wire push you, and the the laser washes over the wire. And I had a friend who also saw his first laser weld out in the field on some stainless steel parts. The weld looked really good. The whole entire one side of it was peeled off as completely cold laps. So maybe maybe the angle wasn't right, or you know, you just never know. And that's one thing. Maybe we haven't studied it enough. Maybe we're we're rushing into it because now I mean everybody's getting a handheld laser. People are buying two, three, three of them, but I don't know if the world has caught up to that point yet, because there are there are no certifications yet that I know of that will you know certify you to weld, let's say, some structural steel with a laser welder.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's true. That's true. H just gonna stay uh change to standard in Europe. Oh, it's an ISO 9606. Uh where they include handled laser welding to qualify as a manual welder? Yep, as you said, I have my doubts. I would say let's keep it on the robot.

Proud Moments And Big Failures

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. He's better with lasers where everything is controlled. Yeah. So having traveled the world and and done a bunch of research, what's something that you're you're most proud of? What's have there's something you maybe created or like you've been published in some some university books, right? Technical papers for AEWS.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, papers are always cool because you and you write papers because you try to put it down in a in a certain way that you break it down to the most important things. What I really enjoy, but what I've really proud of it is probably I come back to this thing I I mentioned before, it's probably cast iron welding, repair welding. It's a little bit outside of the entire thing, you know. Yeah, but it's something that it's so fascinating to me, you know? Yeah, did a repair work on a cast iron motor block. This was called a locomobile. They used to build locomotives and it's a locomobile. I think they only build, let's say, 20 pieces of this, and it's an old-time uh rally they go from I think Peking, Beijing to Paris or something, like really crazy. Well, they drive with old cars, yeah, like a long distance, weird roads, and yeah, somebody brought me this this motor block to repair, and I said, Yeah, sure. I was like, This is huge, you know. I never thought it's a car, you know. And then he told me this story, and I was like, Well, I'm glad you just told me now because otherwise I I would be so scared to do any well on it. Yeah, yeah, told me where it came from, yeah, where it came from and how many pieces are left. So yeah, yeah. That was really exciting.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, cool. Is there uh is there a big failure of yours that you want to share? A lot of people, you know, they only share the good stories, but is there something that went really, really sideways on you one time and I see you shaking your head?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Uh it was on a piano, a cast part of a piano where you have all the strings. And there was a there was a crack there. They asked me, okay, can I repair it? And I said, sure. And I was like, okay, well, do the world on it and done. You know, I I knew it was cast iron, so I was careful about it. I thought so, but I wasn't careful enough. And then they said, Well, they put the strings on and then they tighten it, and I didn't know what you know that there are tons of it, tons of tons of tension on these things, tons of tension, and so when it tightened it, it broke again. So I I don't know, the next day or the two days or three days later, they brought it to me again. I was like, Alright, okay, I have to be. This is not too as easy as I thought. Yeah. The thing was massive, you know. And pianos are cheap. No, they're not cheap. It was something really old, and you know, that I just thought when the the tension put tension on the strings, you know. I mean that the thing that can fly away, you know. Yeah. So I was like, okay, well, let's be put more more passion to it and more time to it and think about it, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Did it end up working out? In in the end it worked out, yeah. But you know, from I thought, well, it's a little repair, it ended up in a huge repair because, well, I didn't work properly at the beginning, so I had way more work afterwards. Way more work.

Capturing The Arc: Video And Imaging

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, sometimes that happens, right? You kind of well, that was a huge learning curve. Yeah, because your your confidence was up, you know what you're doing, and then the world decided to humble you a little bit. Yeah, it wasn't, yeah. So uh on Instagram, because I found you a long time ago on Instagram, and the video that got me was the video you did with uh welding Manny. It's like the the torch is very close up, it's on an open joint, and there's some EDM music playing right in the background. Like that that just caught my eye. So, do you still do you still hang out with Manny? You still do that stuff? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he's my colleague, actually a good buddy of mine. So yeah, he's a really brilliant guy. Um, great ideas always. Same department as I work, and yeah, we hang we hang out, so yeah. Oh good. I love that video.

SPEAKER_02

I got hooked on it, like I need to be doing stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so that was that was big because actually the torch, to be honest, the torch was mounted, you know, was stationary, and the part moved. Oh and I added the filler wire, yeah, so that it just hit the spot, so the frequency was perfect. We did it actually as a training video, you know, to train people to show people okay, this is what the pulse arc does to get nice, beautiful world teams, good washing effect, yada yada yada. And I don't know, it was many, it was manny. He was like he was sitting here looking at this video, and then all of a sudden, this music kicked in his head. I was like, this would be fit perfect. So he actually created that video.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that is awesome, yeah, super captivating. But that's that's funny that you mentioned that that the torch was steady and it was the piece that was moving. Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't have thought of that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, usually do high-speed videos when he monitoring the art because then the torch is stationary, so we can point the camera with exactly on the wire or on the tank selector, whatsoever, and then the part moves, and then we know basically exactly what's what's happening.

SPEAKER_02

So what kind of camera do you use? Because I can't get my cell phone to make that kind of that kind of footage.

Grain Structure And Heat Effects

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think this was actually a high-speed camera, I think at Phantom, or it was a Canon. Um uh Canon camera. I think we use a macro lens. Um and then it was basically just the the settings. Yeah, with with the mobile phone it can be tricky, but what we found um actually is let's say even the software is pretty good already on the cell phones, on the smartphones, so they do pretty good videos too. But yeah, let's say if you do videos with let's say uh Nikon or a canon camera or pictures, it's always good to have the torch somewhere stationary to get the right shot. You know, the best shot I've ever got, or to me, my my best shot is was like I had uh just a tick torch stationary, strike the arc, ramped it up to 500 amps or 300, I forgot. Anyways, the tank snell was really hot. It was a thick tank snelectrode, it got really hot. The world part was really hot, and then like literally all of a sudden I dropped it down to 5 amps, and this time I made a picture. So you see, let's say the the wall part everything cools down, but the plasma is still trying to maintain it because of the heat. Yeah, and this is the best shot I've ever got. It's actually in my home office, if you like Poland. So yeah, I printed it out, it's it's over there. Yeah, that was the nicest shot I've ever got.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I've I've looked at your Instagram recently too, is you take a lot of pictures of like grain structure, like that's something that I don't study enough of, and that's something you're really focused in. So, what are we trying to show with these pictures?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's a thing that's it's a little bit the meteorographic side. Um, so we always wanna, or I'm always curious about that. The grain structure doesn't matter if it's aluminum, cast iron, regular, mild steel, or especially when it goes to to high string steel, fine-grained steel. When I go, let's say to the um to training classes, uh theoretical training classes, I always try to show people or the students pictures of okay what happens beside the world, let's say the heat affected zone, the core screen, fine grain structure, and how this affects. And uh when you get nice pictures and you can zoom in, then you physically can see okay, there's actually something going on in the material besides the world. Uh and no, that's good.

SPEAKER_02

It's good that somebody is yeah, it's good that somebody's out there doing it because, like me growing up as a tradesperson, I would never think about these things. You know, I'll just slap the weld on there, it's good, see you later. But it's to have a visual representation of what's happening, I think it's very beneficial to somebody like me.

SPEAKER_01

And it's always interesting, I think, to look in the material because sometimes you find defects, yeah, which is pretty cool, even in the in the base metal, and yeah, so then we did some some trials that say we had a high carbon content in uh in a steel, it was 0.45%. And I did one without preheating. Yeah. So the hardness was uh super high. I think it went up to I don't know six hundred and fifty Vickers or so, so brutal. And then I preheated the same alloy up to three hundred and fifty degrees Celsius. And then I again slow cooling rate down, and the hardness was like very smooth. It was a little peak there, which is normal, but and this is so stuff that I like to use and give the students as an example. A weld can look good from the outside, but welding is like the entire life, it also comes down to the the inner values.

Practical Preheat Rules Of Thumb

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Could look good on the outside, but if it's crazy on the inside, exactly. Yeah. Wow. Well that's good. That's good. Like so, would you would you suggest preheating everything that we're working on?

SPEAKER_01

Not at all. I mean, steel forgives a lot of things, to be honest. Yeah, aluminum needs to be clean as possible, let's say. Uh the rule by phantom is let's say aluminum, if uh it's really hard to say. Let's say everything which goes above eight or ten millimeter material thickness, if you want to get the quality well, start preheating. You know, if you want to be super safe, use helium as shielding gas. And on steel, let's say uh regular mild steel, as uh as long as the tension can handle it, let's say when it comes close to an inch, uh well do something. Yeah, yeah, do something. Um otherwise the the well just can't handle this this the strength. And the rule by thumb is to me, well, you we want to get uh rid of the hydrogen of the moisture, so let's go above 100 degrees Celsius, and so it's what 120 for aluminum to me and 150 for steel, and if it's high carbon steel, well then it anyways depends. So yeah, 200, 300.

SPEAKER_02

So well, thanks for that little bit of knowledge.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02

Um so if you weren't if you weren't doing what you do now for work, what what else would you be doing? Is there another passion of yours that you would be doing? I think if the welding wouldn't exist, I would be homeless. So you're one of those guys who's just just welding, and that's all you really focus on. Do you have like do you like do you have a hobby?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I play play the clarinet. I'm um put it in a small brass band, like a very traditional one, you know, in the Lederhosen that you probably know from. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's good. You gotta have an outlet, you have to have something else, right? Like, I I find it myself. It's my my job is welding. I come home and I weld, and the art that I make is welded. Like, I gotta find something else.

Life Outside Work And Lasting Advice

SPEAKER_01

No, I mean that's the good thing. We always uh have the lessons or train or play, I'd say Friday night, which is good because it's the end of the working week, then you come down, you know, you clear your head, focus on the music, and it's good. Music, I enjoy it. I enjoy it, I enjoy it. Even going to concerts, just like clipping on a Brian Adams concert that was in Vienna just last week. So it was cool, yeah. We enjoy doing things like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's good, that's awesome. So I usually kind of ask this to everybody, but is there a piece of advice that you would give somebody coming up in the trades, or is there a piece of advice you wish that you had heard when you were younger coming up in the trades?

SPEAKER_01

I wish the probably a lot of advice is I got from experienced people, you know. Uh work smart, you know. Work smart, not hard. Yeah, that was I mean the advice is like before you go on a job and well just think about it, and if you thought you think you thought about it, think again, like think twice about it, because there are many things that can go wrong. Of course, you learn as I said, but I wish that I thought probably twice about a job before.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, welding job.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Be be knowledgeable before you jump into something.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because you know, everybody knows it. You go, I'm gonna weld it. You weld it up, it doesn't hold up, it breaks, and uh yeah. I I actually knew it. I was just too lazy. Or I I don't know why I did it at the end, you know.

SPEAKER_02

It's like, yeah, come on, yeah, I yeah. Take take the time to do things properly to the best of ability. Yeah, exactly. That's a good piece of advice. I like that.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Put put more time and scene preparation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh proper preparation. Uh, I can't remember what the acronym is now, but yeah, there's I wish I could remember.

SPEAKER_01

Right, there's like proper preparation, like half or 50% of the welding or something.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something there. So, Martin, what's uh what's next for you? Do you have any career goals? Do you have something planned?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, for sure. I wanna go back, let's say, for school, let's say again, um, take some night classes with myself. That that for sure, and that's probably the next big step I'm going to move on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Just getting smarter and smarter.

SPEAKER_01

And train and train and train, yeah, myself. Yeah, that's good. So that's probably the next big step, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And we kind of didn't touch on it, but do you have a family?

SPEAKER_01

No, I have a girlfriend, but no kids, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01

Um, that's good.

SPEAKER_02

That's good, yeah. I mean, if it's working, let's keep it that way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. No, I can't complain. So we we share the same as of course she's not big and willing, but she's fascinated about it. So that's that's pretty cool. She also likes the the hands-on work, you know, blacksmith stuff, whatever. So my dad is a blacksmith by trade.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So he likes that too. So we enjoy it. You go to look at some handcraft or handmade stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, if you you know, maybe you have a final thought or a story you want to leave us with from your extensive career traveling the world. What was what what's been your your favorite thing?

Goals, Craft, And Closing

SPEAKER_01

What's what sticks with you to this day? Welding up me really far. Welding up me really far. So just visiting all different places in the entire world, you learn from so many people, and even if you think you cannot learn from that guy, you learn from him because you learn the way how not to do it, you know. So there's always lots of learning, and it's interesting to see the different cultures or how people uh start with the job where you think, well, I would have done this different, but to still get it done, and so it's like always fascinating, you know. And besides that, traveling around the world, seeing history of all the different countries and enjoying good food all over the world.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Martin, thank you very much for being my guest today. It was great to meet you face to face, kind of. Um, thanks for taking the time, and um, this has been the Canadian Welding Bureau Association Welding Podcast. Thank you very much. We got episodes dropping weekly, so stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00

You've been listening to the CWB Association Welding Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwbassociation.org to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.