The CWB Association Welding Podcast
The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that covers what’s happening in the world of Welding. We speak to people passionate about the world of Welding and fabrication. Get the right tips and industry information to stay on top of what’s happening in the Welding industry.
The CWB Association Welding Podcast
Episode 252: More Than the Weld with Doug Wilson
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The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world to share their passion and give you the right tips to stay on top of what’s happening in the welding industry. Subscribe, listen, and stay connected to the people who keep the world welded together
Every welder has a story, and every lesson learned in the trade comes from solving problems. In this episode, Kevin Roy sits down with Doug Wilson, known as Doug Doug The Welder, to discuss the lessons he's learned over more than 30 years in the trade. From the importance of mentorship and problem-solving to tackling real-world fabrication challenges, Doug shares practical advice on welding techniques, shop culture, and adapting to new technology like Fronius CMT. The conversation also explores the value of investing in quality equipment, creating a positive workplace, and finding pride in both your work and your personal journey.
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Welcome And Meet Doug
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the CWB Association Welding Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Hua. Let's flip up the lid and spark some conversation. Welcome to the CWB Association Welding Podcast. We are back with another great episode. Tonight my guest is Doug Wilson, also known as Doug Doug the Welder on Instagram. I am. Hey everybody. Welcome, Doug.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for the invite.
SPEAKER_01No problem. No problem at all. Like I've I feel like I've known you forever online, and this is great to finally get to see you at least. Yeah. Good chatting. Texting back and forth is not the same as actually seeing you. So, Doug, how how many years have you had in the welding trade? I was adding it up.
SPEAKER_02It's getting plus or minus 30 years now. It's quite a while. So it's funny, I grew up as a carpenter, and uh the big joke was when I was working at RSD Instruments, a Geotechnical, my boss is always joking about uh, do you want to go back to carpentry? And I'm like, no, I love this, you know. And I've over the years you've you gained skills and you learn from people or you go to school, whatever. I've been uh fortunate enough that I've I've learned on the job, and uh I was signed up at the RST as a uh uh machinist, IT uh what is that I WA or whatever, but I was always welding for 11 years at that place. I I did machining on the side, not not train, but you know, more like an operator, you know, kind of basic manual milling and glaze work. Yeah, and prior to that I worked 11 years at Code Electric. We did electrical enclosures for the lower mainland here in Vancouver. And uh where I actually learned my trade was Vancouver Electric Box, and we go back that was two and a half years there. Three people sat me down and showed me how to weld, and I listened to what they said in common, and I discarded their opinion, you know, their little idiosyncrasies, and and I sat and started welding right away. And and you know, that it's really about listening to what you're being told. You know, don't veer off that you're told hold at 30 degrees. I've had people, you know, uh I used to teach at uh KMS Tools welding department there. Keep your elbow up, and the and the ones I you know have is elbow down. It's like, yeah, it's it's it's a deliberate, like you gotta get in there and do it. Elbow down, yeah, is his wealth or garbage. I was like, Well, I like I hope you had fun, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe if you listened a little more, you could improve. So listen, Doug, like you're you're touching on so many different things here. Like you you taught you taught classes, you you learned at so many different places. So, like let's go, let's take it
Learning Fast By Listening
SPEAKER_01back. Like, let's go back to when you were when you were a kid, like what kind of stuff were you interested in?
SPEAKER_02I go back, and you know, when I was seven, my parents broke up, and I lived mom with my mom, my brother lived with my dad. And when you grow up, you're looking for your parents to give direction, and they were very good parents as far as uh making sure we are safe and happy and all that. We did stuff. Mom had an acre and a quarter property, and I had my own horse. You know, we had a little she had her Arabs, and I had a uh paint. And it's funny, you growing up, you know, you're doing all these things, and you look back on it, you wish you could have really enjoyed it, like you're just doing things, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, for sure. Like they the the classic saying is youth is wasted on the young, right?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Like I have said on my one of my Instagram posts, you know, as I get older, I got less years coming than what I've passed, what's past, and just uh a smell or a a sound or you know, it'll trigger a memory. And it's funny, it's it's present, it's like it's not it's not like back there, it's here now in your mind. You you're remembering a whole series of events, and and it's it's really neat because that's how you learn, right? When you're welding, you go, Oh, that works, or that doesn't work, yeah. And then you progress. So a lot of welding is it's not about not just being told, it's the practice of doing what you're doing, and you get better at it, right? If you're not getting better at it, ask somebody, yeah, what am I doing wrong?
SPEAKER_01You know, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's how you learn, and I think that's one of the great things about social media and also you know being able to see things online and ask people how they do things and stuff. So when did you when did you first experience welding? When did you first see it?
SPEAKER_02Actually, I was while I was in carpentry. We're doing stairs in a warehouse. Uh the company was called Columbia Chrome. They did hard chroming. He was unique because prior to that, they would go to one shop, they'd cut all the cylinders apart, they'd go to another shop, they'd grind the cylinders, go to another shop, they'd hard chrome, go to another shop, they'd polish, go back to the same shop, and they put it together. And these two Daryl Andrews and Harry Smeets decided to put them all under one roof. So my dad knew Harry Smeets, and we're doing work there. And it's funny, it's I've enjoyed carpentry, but when I looked at the guy putting steel together, and it was like, Oh, that's that's what I want to do. I want to do it. You got a spark, you got a spark in the head, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and at least you know, when you're welding, if you cut it a
Carpentry Roots And First Sparks
SPEAKER_01little short, you can always add a little bit on.
SPEAKER_02Well, I remember my dad cutting this mantle, oak mantle, solid oak. And back then, like in the 80s, that it was expensive. He cut them an inch short. You know how you you measure a tape upside down, right? He had to pay for it, he had to buy another piece of oak. That's how bad it was back then, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, yeah. I'm I'm classic, like you know, hold it on the one one inch line, and then yeah, all the the math is perfect. Yeah, send it and what why is it so far out of square? Yeah, they're getting pretty smart with these digital tapes, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I did talk to someone, I haven't talked to them recently. There's somebody that has a digital tape system, and it's really good. And I've always thought I should get one.
SPEAKER_01One thing that I found pretty cool is like um like the laser tool, which will take dimensions for you. So you put it on the wall in in a room, press the button, and it'll tell you how far that other wall is.
SPEAKER_02I think, yeah, Seattle Metalworks, he has one, and I'm trying to get our boss to buy one. Like I think in the map in the day they were like 80,000 when he was checking them out way back, and they're down to like 25,000, which is still a hefty amount of money to invest in a tool. When you're when you're making mistakes, you measure and they go, I should have had that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. I know I know the tool you're talking about. Like you can drop it in a room, and it'll literally you can pick points, it'll scan the whole thing, and then it'll digitize it, and you can build your prints right off of that. Yeah, and you know, sometimes it's spending the money
Fit Ups, Rework, And Distortion
SPEAKER_01is good. I I mean last week I went and fit, I went and dry fit three railings, and uh zero of them fit perfectly, zero out of three ain't bad, right? Tell me about it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We we go to site and do this railing, and it was quite complicated. I was like, Oh, these don't fit, you know. There's like this is short, that's long. So in your mind, you gotta kind of picture where it needs to be fixed and how, because it's a very complicated assembly. Yeah, and then you go, okay, if I cut it here, cut it there, clamp this, put that over here, the levels, the lines will be right. Then I have to piece in a piece here and add a piece here, remove this and weld it back together. And to get past code, yeah. Um, it's not painted at that point, right? You had to remove the paint and weld, so I ground it flat and then I wrapped it with blue tape. Yeah. So it you know, it's fine if you could you didn't need to do that, it just looked better, right? Instead of a ground and uh you know an unpainted area that had that tape there, and just little things you do to cover up the mistake, maybe you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean that's that's part of welding too, though. It's like not nothing is gonna go perfectly every time.
SPEAKER_02So especially things change, you know, things get modified from a drawing. You know, our drawings could be a year old, you know, and and by the time you actually go to the site, he's like, Why is that there? Oh, they took that. Oh, yeah, why is that higher? You know, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01This wall is a foot longer than it used to be.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah. Happens all the time. They had a plate, they used to have a plate there, and the architects walks through. Oh, why is that plate there? Take it out. I want the roof, you know, the ceiling flush. Well, our panel was flush to the bottom of that plate plus half-inch drive or whatever. Yeah, so that's gone. We can the whole panel, they're they're like 300-pound steel, you know, they're not glass, they're steel painted.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. One thing that's classic, I like like wall mount railings where you know most builders will put some backer, but they'll put the backer at you know, exactly 36, right? And they'll use like a two by four. Well, my standoffs are like four inches lower than that, right? You know, like what's it hurt for you to put a two by ten in there? Two by exactly like you know, my railing is gonna be at 36, you got to be under that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and little common sense stuff, and it's hard not to miss that, you know, when until you actually do it. Like I was doing something today, because of prior work on stainless steel pipe and tube and stuff, you weld it, it could be a half a degree off, and it's been rejected. Like I've had pieces rejected a half degree, so I just add a little weld, hit it with a little water, gone, it's back, you know, to where it needs to be. And and uh I was like, Jay uh was out like a degree. I said, Oh yeah, did a little weld, put a little water, you and it moved perfect, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's uh that's a very good tip for people listening out there. Like stainless steel moves a lot. You have to think about these things even before you put this part together, you have to think how's it gonna move? Sometimes I've been, you know, like tacking stuff loose, as I call it, so a few degrees out, so that when my tack goes in and cools, now it's where I want it to be, right?
SPEAKER_02So my friend worked for integrated paving and they did asphalt preheat units, and uh I was working with them and I was like noticing that the jigs aren't square, right? Like they're not straight, and they're off angle. He says, Yeah, wait until they cool. So you put them in there weld, put them aside, and then you check them, and they're perfect. So he's modified his jigs, like he had them right in the beginning, and then he's modified them as he's gone on, right? And yeah, and and it's it's okay if something's not right, you just gotta fix it. Don't leave it, you know. Yeah, you see that gobby weld everybody shows, you know, like us welders, we're looking at all every weld everywhere, and they're like, Oh, there's a bad one. Who left that on there?
SPEAKER_01Don't leave it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Unless it's a Friday and the guy's like, I'm out of here.
SPEAKER_01And then the guy on Monday shows up, he doesn't want to deal with it either.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, there's a girl that does some sanitary stuff, and she comes in and she's like, Why? Her stuff's better than perfect, like it's yeah, some people are robotic, you know. They and you wonder why what's going on in the mind to achieve that. Like, are they they that critical of themselves that if you work with them, they're always critical, right? On yeah, quality, but they're probably doing that to themselves. So oh yeah, you gotta know where your tolerances are. Sometimes it's okay to be an eighth inch out. Yep, sometimes it needs to be less than 30,000, and it's hard to achieve that sometimes, but that is our trade, and not everyone's meant to be a certain a certain way, right?
SPEAKER_01Like you there, it's perfectly okay to go weld out of a jig all day in the corner, and it's it's it's okay to not want to do that and be on the opposite end there, and want to be super, super, you know, deadly, as they say, and super critical.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's the thing with me, like 28 years, 27 years of production welding, you know, um head down, the work's coming at you. Go go go. You're like a racehorse, the gate opens, you're race, and you're not racing, right? You're actually waiting for the next gate, you're trying to get that done so you can start the next one. And it's weird the little motivational stuff you gotta go through. And the job isn't actually welding now for me, it's to keep welding. Yeah, that's the job.
SPEAKER_01So, Doug, we got a little
Production Welding And Career Moves
SPEAKER_01off track here. So we got to the point where you you you know got your first welding job, so to speak, with your uncle. So, where where did you progress from there? Where where was the next spot where you were doing all this production welding?
SPEAKER_02So the Anchor Electric Box, uh, worked for two and a half years, and then I got an offer more money because money always seems to motivate our decisions, right? Uh, I went back into carpenter. Well, I got injured pretty I tore a ligament in my right foot. Oh, and I went back to work for the guy, and he hired two more people, and he didn't have a spot for me. And he's like, No, thank you. And back then it was like, Oh, I'm out of a job. You know, you got pretty good secure jobs now. If you get hurt, you you get your job back, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, at least he had he had to hire two people to replace you, so you must have been doing some right.
SPEAKER_02Well, he that wasn't really no, but as a company grows, anyway. The opportunity to get back with my dad, and we you know, because I was doing carpent before, I I started working with him and my cousin. So what had happened with that is I'd be jumping between my dad and my cousin building, and it got a little stressful because they're both wanting me at the same time, and I was like, you guys gotta decide that. It's like when we're working. I I don't need to decide what I'm working on, they have to decide that, right? Now, if they give you the uh freedom to do whatever you want, then that's a I've never worked like that, right? So I parted ways with them and uh because I did some part-time work at Code Electric while we were slow. I was doing welding because I already knew the product, Code Electric and Vancouver Electric Box. Um they're VEB, which Vancouver Electric Box was a parent company, code came out of it, it split, and they become direct competitors. And because I already knew the product line and I was at Good Welder, I started working at Code Electric. And uh the big push is we lost all our tools. Somebody broke in and sold our carpentry tools, and I was like, I'm not doing this, like that second time, right? Yeah, so I phoned the boss at uh Coat Electric, you want me full time? And yeah, so I talked to my cousin, my dad, and said, Sir I'm not gonna come back anymore. I'm gonna go back to welding. And I was there for 11 years, you know. That's a good stretch. Yeah, and and it's it's funny to tell you the truth. I actually quit eight times. Eight times in 11 years. Eight times. So I'd give my quit, you know, my my notice, and the negotiating would start. And it wasn't a blackmail, it wasn't for more wages, it was just out of frustration because we do, you know, things aren't suited for us. There's got to be a way to explain that. Now we have HR and you know all these other um ways to manage our thoughts or or what we want to do in life, right? Yeah, so that boss was very good, and uh it was electrical enclosures, pretty boring, you know. But I learned my trade and I was very good at it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what type of welding were you doing on these boxes?
SPEAKER_02I was I welded galvanized, I welded aluminum, stainless steel, steel products, hot rolled, cold rolled junction boxes to uh fire suppression panel in the apartment or you know, big buildings, and that was all stainless, so I had to get into polishing and graining, and then uh big kiosk. I remember doing this 36-foot-long kiosk, you know, bigger than life. Remember doing a three-door kiosk? You know, I could do that in 17 hours, which I think is stellar as far as assembling, you know, yeah, putting it together. You know what a kiosk and like the one-eighth inch steel.
SPEAKER_01It sounds pretty impressive because, like, you know, I'll I'll do you know, a stainless steel countertop with a sink in it, and that takes me like a day. Oh, yeah. Like, you're you're doing triple the work or more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's funny because you you get known for that in that company. We we had another fabricator welder, and and the two of us were getting at it and doing so he'd have his table. I'd have mine. Once in a while, you have to ask for help. You know, don't be don't be embarrassed to ask for help. It actually helps the other person when you ask for help. It's not so much for you, you need help, it actually helps them because they they they they feel needed then, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Teamwork makes the dream work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then I uh we're in the same uh warehouse as a company called RST Instruments, they did geotechnical, and I would go over there. I'm trying to think of the the the main the first thing I started doing, they had a pop machine over there, so I would go over and grab a pop, right? So I kind of started a conversation about stuff, and then we would do stuff for them, they'd do stuff for us back and forth, and it was like, huh, I kind of like that stuff, you know, like it's it's difficult, it's production, but it's not just a box. This is a global company, they do geotechnical, so sensors for Dan's bridges and mines, and all the you know, all the components that related to that for that company. And so I bugged him for like four years, and then one day I'm out at the coffee truck, and the I see the boss walking over to me and like what uh and and he's today's your day, go give your notice. Four dollars an hour more. I'll give you ho.
SPEAKER_01That's a jump, that's life changing. So that's your uh that that was your ninth try at quitting, and it stuck. It was that was it.
SPEAKER_02When I gave my notice, she said, Oh, we're having this conversation again. And I'm like, Alison, I really like Wilking for you, but like he's giving me a four dollar an hour raise, and I I know you can't afford that. Like we're stuck on costing and stuff, right? Yeah, and uh yeah, I can't do that, and and it's funny because you I go to that company, that's that was my last job. I really I thought it was my last job, and venture capitalists bought the company and it got modified. They knocked 60% of the products out, and and it's funny how the the dynamics wasn't the same, you know. That it was like a family. I put a little picture up, like and the the foreman had full confidence in me, the the you know, the boss, and and you just keep doing something difficult and and achieving, and a lot of stainless steel steel stuff. You have to worry like five years later, it can fail. You can have you know all these other issues. So I it's funny because I always end up working part-time somewhere, and that opens up a full-time job. So I started part-time at uh
Custom Work And Teaching Beginners
SPEAKER_02back in Code Electric, but was for Green Theory planters. So before Green Theory started production production, making their own planters, they were farming out and getting people to make them. And uh I won't get into all the details, but I started working at Green Theory. He was very receptive. You know, we got the 3D jig tables with lifts, we got Fronius in there, and he got full ventilation, and and honestly, I was really proud of working there. Yeah, and uh but then I get a phone call. As you get older, when somebody asks you to work for them, you go. It's it's it's a weird I I wish I didn't in some ways, but I'm glad I did. Yeah. Because I think the way it was worded is they needed help on a project, and I thought they wanted me full time, so then I quit my job and I'm like, oh, here. And I I still haven't asked them whether that was true or not, but I'm it could have been that he just wanted me for that one project, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we really need a man. I got the perfect guy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. It was a huge water feature at Kits Lino, you know, bigger than life, you know. This he was saying all stay double all stainless steel fountain and a big art feature. And that was my big jump start in that company. And we've done so many, so many projects that are just like amazing. And overwhelming and but it's all custom. So when you get into custom like the other things are design products you're making and you can fine-tune your skills, you can minimize your movements and you know and get it figured out. When you're doing a custom like this, you get one chance, right? And it's gotta be perfect. So it might not be perfect, you modify whatever, but you you need to get that perfect, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's there's no trying it twice, you know. Like it's yeah, the one the one jobs are the toughest.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. And like if you have 50, the first three or four or five, yeah, they're okay, but then you get it dialed in. Oh, that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I've done I've done 4,000 count on some. It was for Weatherhaven earthquake readiness program way back, and uh tell you, you know, you want that done. How many do you say?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a thousand. Too many. Yeah, we've got a job coming up right now where we've got 90 of these stands to make, and every time, every time, no matter who I tell them the shop, they're like, What? 90? Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, we haven't had one of these in a long time. I remember pumping out uh basically crack's air stands, so that you get these bottle stands, right, that hold the bottles in for for shops, and like man, 300, 400. I did when I was early in my career.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I just did that on a video of me doing, I think, 300 just pipe on a plate, you know. And I got my I got that rotary thing that I built at a real heavy, you know, uh bearing, and it and it it's so much weight you can actually just give it a little spin and it it goes. But I got the the best Miller welder, it's a pulse on pulse, I can't remember the name of it, but it's their their top model that they've got. And I'm really happy the boss has got that in that shop. And you know, I got a 350p uh dynasty, so I got the you know Miller's best equipment there, so yeah. Helps me, you know, the better the machine, the less you have to fight.
SPEAKER_01You know, that's very true, actually. Yeah, you know, like it's not it's not the it's not the machine. What's the what's the saying? Um it's not the welder that makes the machine or the machine that makes the welder. How does that go?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to get someone to send that in and type text.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Uh so Doug, you mentioned when we started out here that you were teaching welding at some point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was just an entry uh four-hour course, you know. So what you'd have to do is try to inspire the person to um get over their shyness or their lack of confidence. So, you know, when I first started, I had 19 students, and luckily my son came with me, and I'm supposed to have six to ten. You know, that's that's the average what they're supposed to do, but the first day they just double booked it basically. And so Miller had a little uh video, the little CD that comes with a welder, right? I plugged that in and showed that I thought that would be the easiest. It was like it's too much for me because they'd be asking questions, and you put a little video on, everybody's quiet. So if I'm up there talking, you get all these people, they they interrupt you, and you're you're trying to have a train of thought. So in in some way, when you're teaching, you've got to figure out little triggers or or how to manage people, and that's how you teach well, right? So we would get through the the little video and then you ask questions, right? Okay, what do you want, you know? So you get like uh four or five people are fairly bold. If they have no problem, most people are kind of sitting there shy and wouldn't say anything, you know, yeah, because there's too many people or whatever. Uh but as I I did the classes, you you realize okay, they need you to do it. So if I actually sit there and show them how to do it, they don't learn. So I actually get them to do you know, how to hold the gun, I put it in their hand, how to wire the the machine, like get them to do it instead of me doing it, and and I seem they pick it up quicker that way if they actually physically do the teaching, um the learning, you know.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, blah blah blah. No, I'm a I'm a big believer in that. Like you got to put tools in people's hands in order for that to connect to their brain. I've I've had I've had people like that, they do it in front of you and walk away. Yeah, no, it's like most most of us that are in the trades, and I'm generalizing here is that we're all visual learners, and we need to it has to be tangible. You have to be able to to put your hands on it, to see what you've built, to see what the purpose of doing all this was, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then as you're learning, you're doing that what is that called muscle memory because you start achieving uh repetitive skills and your muscles get used to it. I remember having my arms like I could hold them up for six hours, it wouldn't bother me because that's what I was doing, right? Now I'm like, give me an arm rest. So I do. I'm you know, doing the the MIG welding those pipes. I actually set two of my my blocks on my cable for my elbow my harm to hold there.
SPEAKER_01You've essentially turned yourself into a welding robot, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02And that's the next thing. I would love to have brought in a robot at Green Theory, you know, because of production. So we did have a Gulco track system, and I did it vertical down. So I was getting my TIG welding on an 060 aluminum, I could go 30 inches a minute. So you tacked that box, put it against the corner down, and it would yeah, and perfect weld. I mean, like you go to the prep and they were like, Oh, that's so much better, you know. Yeah, you're not you're not adding filler, you're not doing all these gimpy gobs everywhere.
SPEAKER_01So now you're not working at green theory, yeah. So when you when you were there, you were talking Fronius machines, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like I had I had brought them into RST instruments, but the application really didn't suit them, they didn't see the the uh investment um warranted getting it for what they were doing because there's too many varied products. So a green theory, they're very specialized, they do aluminum planters or core 10 planters, right? Yeah, with Fronius on a track system, we could get achieved 75 inches a minute, which is just what yeah, it's it's what when you get it working, uh and it has to do with electricity and how aluminum is receptive to the arc, you know, and how the machine functions, and yeah, it just you have no idea what it feels like.
SPEAKER_01Like it's just like I mean, like it's it's it's mesmerizing. I can't even understand that. Like you're moving more than an inch per second.
SPEAKER_02So knowing the machine can do that, and you're doing it manually now because I don't have on the track. I'm the limiting, I can't do 75 inches a minute. I tried, you know, but like no, I can't do it. So manually you're probably good same as you're around 30 35 inches a minute manually, like my plant, you know, you could get it tacked up, but yeah, to have it on a system like that. And I think they said all cars or almost all cars now are made with Fronius systems, so they can actually weld aluminum to galvanize parts if you have a wear, and uh I still have the little blank in my toolbox.
SPEAKER_01Same, same as me. The first time I went to a Fronius demo, they had that, it's like their business card almost, like yeah. You know, they explain the process, you know, like you know, CMT, right? Like uh cold metal transfer, which is you know slightly different than your your usual GMAW, your your short circuit, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's funny because the very beginning of Fronius in their demo, the guy saw some bus bars, three-quarter inch big flat bars for electrical, right? So it's zinc coated, so I got it cut, and he's like, What's your send us material you use? I think it was 14 gauge, whatever, put on the end, he did a bead on there, didn't burn through, solid, folded it over, didn't break. I'm like, Oh, that's what enticed me. I was like, Oh, I need that, like personally, I need to use that machine, right? So I tried to get into RST, you know, and Green Theory. Then they bought one machine. Prior to that, they were TIG welding almost everything, right? Yeah, so you imagine there's five or six welders doing a good job, and then you bring in a fronius, and uh and as his company grew. But like when I'm working there at the beginning, they had Miller, it was a 350p pulse make in some okay. Uh the unit that was good, but then when you go to the fronius and what it's capable of, I I surely I can go straight up. I can like my weld, I can go straight up with it.
SPEAKER_01That's basically the noise that it makes, too. Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's funny because uh a lot of like piano players, they listen to tunes, you know. Some people you can actually learn how to weld with tone, even with Regan Mig and all that, it doesn't sound you can walk by a guy and you know exactly, oh, you got your machine set wrong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this is you're too far away here, you know. Yeah, your wires way too high.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you got the wrong wire, even that you can tell. Yeah, right. Getting back on that, I I'm a little disappointed that I don't I'm not using the fronius, you know. But uh yeah, you never know. Things changed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you never know what could happen in the future.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
Fronius CMT And Machine Talk
SPEAKER_01So so Doug, what like what what drives you because like you've you've jumped around, what what is your motivation for for doing what you're doing?
SPEAKER_02Because of where I am, I've I've progressed to where I'm challenged, where it's it can be difficult for me. And I like that. I I I've done so much stuff that you kind of that's so easy, and then you get really bored. But where I'm working because it's one of and it's custom and and you really gotta think about what you're doing before you start. You gotta think of what it looks like at the end, not piece by piece at the beginning. You want it to finish in the right spot on your table that you don't have to flip it again, you know. So your last weld is in the right spot.
SPEAKER_01So you just want to keep getting better. It's about just challenging yourself every everything you do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I and I'm a 60 now, so I hope I got like 10 more years of it, but you you you realize your body starts going, I don't like doing that no more. You know, like I gotta I got a pain in my elbow now that I gotta really massage it and work it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, don't say that. Don't say that. I got a pain in my elbow right now. I'm 40 years old. Volteran 100%. Put on there. We gotta get a Volterran sponsorship going here. Oh, I'm gonna hit them on my Instagram.
SPEAKER_02I'm going to. I've had so much I wouldn't say luck, but it is luck because the opportunity for the good things to happen is you gotta try it, right? You gotta put it out there, and then good things come back. So that is a that is a legitimate definition of luck. You know, I've had Fronius sent me a watch. I got a Fronius watch that nobody's got, you know. Oh, your lucky, and all yeah, and all the support from you know, even Lincoln. I don't use Lincoln equipment, right? They're so receptive and friendly to me on my instant. I ask a question, they answer me right away. So if they don't know, they find out, and they're like 100%. Miller's a little bit needy, like you gotta have some leverage on them or value for them to talk to you. Whereas Lincoln, they seem to be really good. I like their website, you know. Yeah, not knocking Miller, because I think Miller and Lincoln have their own place. Like, I would say Miller is better on electrical wallers and Lincoln's better on gas-powered units, is front. Like, I hear people complain about Miller's gas units, they are just garbage, you know. They have struggle, they're always in getting repaired, and and I don't hear anybody saying Lincoln's, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's funny that I've heard that as well. I've also experienced it where you know it's it's Miller in the shop and Lincoln out in the field. But I'd notice I've noticed that at my shop now we're bringing more Lincoln machines in because I think they've done it different, exactly. They've done a better job and stepping up and really listening to the customer and what the needs are, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they have to because the Fronius can come in there and they they could just but don't have price points an issue, right?
SPEAKER_01But here's the thing is that now you know Fronius has always been a little bit on the higher end of things, right? Yeah, now like they've really almost stayed the same. Now everybody else is stepping up, so everyone's kind of on a level playing field.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, their prices are coming up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's it's it's whatever, but I like what you touched on though, where where like you reach out to a company on Instagram or whatever, and you get a different level of response. And I agree with you that Lincoln does an amazing job at that. And like, you know, Miller and I we've gone we've gone through it, and they used to follow me and they unfollowed me, so I must have said something. Who knows? But like I haven't I've heard it from a few people as well that it's just kind of a stonewall thing where even a small question about asking for help, it just gets left on red.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's my my favorite person, which he's he's off. He's odd, he's he's trouble is turbo the plumber. I don't know if you know him. I don't you have everybody's gonna follow Turbo the Plumber and say Doug Doug DeWelder sent me, right? What inspired about him is you know, he's using what are all the plumbing equipment called um rigid and and uh so he'll use DeWalt and and Makita, yeah, yeah, Milwaukee. He uses all the brand names, yeah. He will not candy coat or whatever. He'll say this switch is garbage. I've sent I've sent you know, blah blah blah, I've had to fix it. And I one day he was so mad, and I said, Oh, give it to me. I know the guys at KMS, and he got a full replacement on a tool, no charge. And it was only because I said, Okay, he's really mad, you know. And and some warranties needs to be that way, 100% covered, and and it's disappointing that like I'm gonna say it. My my helmet always has been op trail, and it's like I I don't have the best model, I don't have the uh crystal, and there's a new one coming out. I actually I'm not rich, so I just make sure that inside it's got the module that you can replace the batteries, and it's got three of these now, so they cost like two three hundred bucks used, they're $750 to get now, right? Most people go and buy a $50 helmet. I say the two things I spend a lot of money on are my feet and my eyes, yeah. Because if one of those goes, you're done. So these are made in Switzerland, never had a problem, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I agree with you. I I used to be a 3M guy, I had a 3M sweet glass, and I I think my family came together and bought it for me for Christmas when I became a welder, and it was like eight eight hundred dollars. And they're light, right? They're nice light, very, very good helmet. Now it broke about three, four years later, yeah, and I had to get the the inside replaced, so the faceplate replaced, right? And it was uh seven hundred dollars. Like so so then I switched to Lincoln, yeah. I switched to Lincoln that day, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it and it's disappointing that marketers are get involved, right? And they set those prices, and they don't realize they're ruining their business by not supplying at a reasonable price uh replacement. They want the sales guy wants you to buy a brand new helmet, that's why the price is that high. It didn't cost them that much, right? So if you're a loyal customer, that's what more important than making an extra buck, right? Because you're gonna lose like you went to a different company, right? It happened that quick, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I've had three, you know, Lincoln Viking helmets. Um, and you know, I've got a Fronius helmet, I've got a pipeline helmet, like I've got too many helmets, but you're right. Like, am I ever gonna go buy a 3M again? Probably not. You have to give them to you.
SPEAKER_02We could hit them up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. I'll bug them. Yeah, I'll do a good review on it.
SPEAKER_02No, but I I do have to say I have some fun leverage on my Instagram. I don't
Helmets, Shop Culture, Mental Health
SPEAKER_02have I only have over 3,000 followers, I don't have these big accounts, but all of them are solid people, right? Yeah, and like Scotchman, Ulfa, you know. I I think of all these companies that I've done work with. I can make a comment and they respond, even White Spot. I I make a comment to White Spot, and they're like I complain about a dessert or something. They say, Well, what where was that? I want to they want to no, no, I'm not saying that you know yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's because you're a genuine guy. I've always felt that about you. You always tell the truth, you always share your opinion, and you've always been super supportive of like anyone who's asking questions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you don't want to become rude or arrogant or nothing. You you want to be like because you you you're not who you are because of who you are, you are who you are because of everybody around you, you know. Yeah, and that's how like you and and all the other people I talk on my Instagram, they all they all have kept me supported, you know, like men we're torn down a lot, and people don't realize how much we're torn down, yeah. You know, guys joke about each other, but sometimes it gets a little personal, right? I and that's why people get they go the other way, they get more physical whatever to try to manage and deal with that. And yeah, and I I have to say one little topic when women come into the trade, if a guy's being rude to you, I mean in a joking manner, not you know the difference. There's a there's a joking rude or a I hate you rude, yeah. That's what they're doing to all the other guys, too. So you as guys we try not to take it personal, right? Yeah, because if they're unless they're only doing it to you, that's a different thing. That's that's the angry, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I honestly like this is a very big discussion. Like, there's so many ways that you can look at it, right? But I'm really I'm glad you said that because you know, like we talk about a level playing field and equality, right? So being being in a shop, like these things happen, and it's okay to to to have a different mindset about it, right? But there is the other side of things, like you mentioned, where it's like, well, you know, you can't be you can't be bullying, you can't be picking on people.
SPEAKER_02That's that's the that's the anger mean joking. That's a whole different yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we kind of touched on it like ment mental health. Mental health is very important. Like what what kind of stuff do you do to keep yourself on the positive side of things?
SPEAKER_02We we had three boys, you know, I've got three granddaughters and a second son. Uh we do, and and it's trying to make sure that you're not an embarrassment to them, they can be proud of you. That's part of it. You know, and and uh every opportunity you can to spend time with them because as they uh get older, you know, when they're young, they're grab your hand, they give you a hug, they sit on your lap, you read a book. Now that they're older, they're not there anymore. So that's that old scene. The house is quiet, you know, and it's like it's so quiet, you know. So when I go to work, there's all this activity, so it kind of fulfills something there, right? That you're around a group of people that that uh can joke with you and insult you, and and you know, uh he buys you lunch one day, you buy them lunch one day, and it goes back and forth. And trying to find a group of people uh that you get along and you can do stuff together is really thing, really good thing. But some people are lucky enough that they actually go camping and and do other stuff with friends and people that they work for. I've really never had that. And and I look at other my friends from high school and you know they're all doing one bad thing, well it's not a bad thing, but I don't drink, right? Yeah, I I I had it's a big joke because we go to a Mexican restaurant and ask for a lime what's that pop, the Mexican pop. The Doritos, yeah. So I would you like that on the rock, sir? I said, Yeah, like I was thinking just it's ice, right? So I drinking it halfway through, and I'm an uh I'm a I don't drink, right? So I said to my wife, Maryland, this drink tastes weird. So I gave it to her so that's got booze in it. I said, you know what does. So I finished it. I'm a big guy, so it did nothing to me. I didn't feel like everybody said, Oh, do you buzz? I didn't feel nothing. So I look at my bill and it's 850 for the pop. And I'm like, What is a pop 850? And he told me what he put in it. I was like, I didn't ask for it, like, yeah, so now my whole life I can't say what I'm drank, you know.
SPEAKER_01So now I'm a boozer, right? So yeah, so basically, like growing up, never drank, never touched alcohol.
SPEAKER_02No, because a lot of The alcoholic stuff went around, you know, not saying I don't smoke because they were everybody used to smoke, so I just didn't want to do it. And it's not like I made a real conscious decision not to. It was just like I didn't like the evidence of what it was doing to people's lives, it was ruining families like they were breaking up. And you know, I I got a really clear memory sitting in the back of the car going, It's us. So our whole family, one family would go home at Christmas. There would be an argument, and somebody would go home. And it was like this, it was us this time. But they would all be drinking, everybody's happy in family, you know, having fun in the family together. But it was somebody would say something or do something, and it would upset somebody. And and I just didn't like that influence in you know my family, so we never did. I think it's a been a good thing, you know. A very respectable thing, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, so anything like that, you gotta be careful. If it's doing something, get rid of it. I know I had a friend that was heavily drinking, and he almost lost his family. And I I I I really insulted him. I I I laid in on him about how stupid he was, he has a good family, and blah blah blah. And he went to AA and he's never drank since, and he's still together with them. And it's like good for him. Yeah, but he being there for the other guy, too. Sometimes you gotta step up and say, Stop it, you know.
SPEAKER_01And if it's a good friend, then you've got to be more forceful sometimes. Well, thanks, thanks for sharing that with me, man. That's uh that's a that's very good for people to hear that. No, that's fine. That's that's what these things are for, man.
SPEAKER_02There you go. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you got three kids, a wife, you got some grandkids.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So do you think you're ever gonna retire?
SPEAKER_02Oh no, I'd have to be cross-eyed or or uh have a mental disability, kind of like lose my mind from all the stress of what I'm doing, and I can't do it anymore. Yeah, but yeah, no, it's it's so fun, you know. It really is. You you start doing you put metal together and you go, I did that, you know. We we had just done some really heavy stainless steel brackets, and I'm not gonna remember the name of this place, but they walk on this glass over at a uh a ravine, and my brackets are holding the glass up. That's very cool. Oh, it's like I'll send you a picture of them. You can look in my Instagram, it's it's uh posted it. I'll have to look back. When I seen the parts, I'm like, so you you go through all the years of what you remember and all the training and all the you know, yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. And we put it together, it's like yep, and then when you get it and you achieve it, I was like I was very happy with it. There was a little flaw, uh it's called weld distortion, right? So every time you're working on the the stainless steel, especially um where it needs to be and where it is, that's what you're fighting all the time, aren't you? Right? So sometimes it's not gonna be where you want it to be. It's after you're done, it's it's here, not there. So when you're doing one of, you gotta find out what's your tolerance is and what you can achieve in your what you're doing. So I still need to know what that temperature is on stainless steel where it becomes malleable or where it starts moving, right? So if in production you can modify what you're doing to keep that temperature below, say say it's 400 degrees or 600 degrees, 400 degrees, say you gotta stay below that. Yeah, then you're not gonna have the weld distortion, it's gonna take you longer, but you can modify what you're doing, like do other jobs, and and sometimes you can't achieve that. Sometimes you got deadlines that have to go. There's a flaw, but it's accepted, and and you go on. So that's what I'm gonna say. Just be pay attention to you, it can't be perfect, and you gotta know where your tolerances are. I've had drawings you have 40 numbers on there, and you realize only three of them matter. All the other ones are right, this gets that.
SPEAKER_01You know, tests, you know, three answers are there just to screw you up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I've done I highlighted sometimes. I look at the other part and this part, okay. Those and you highlight with a yellow marker, those matter, yeah. You know, just as I remember because as you get going, you can forget stuff. So doing little notes or you know, way to trigger your mind. So when you get a drawing, you're trying to input that information into your brain, yeah. Right, you're trying to visualize it. So there's programs like e-drawings, whatever you can actually visualize it physically on the computer, but you still got to get it in your head. So yeah, when you're trying to get a guy that does the drawings that has no practical knowledge, he'll he'll draw something and I'll make a part and it's backwards. I look at the drawing and say, Oh, that's why. Because it what I saw, that part was different than what I got, right? So I saw something wrong, obviously. Yeah, yeah. And and you can't blame the drawing, but it is because the drawing wasn't input into my brain the way I need to hear it or see it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I mean, sometimes too, like you'll have one view, like your typical, you know, you got your face, you got your top, you got your side, and you have your isometric in the corner, right? Seeing if you're lucky. But here's the fun thing is when the isometric is wrong, yeah, and then you're you're building it, it's like, why does it look wrong? Or like you mentioned, why is it backwards? Where you know that's part of being a fabricator, too, though, is you have to be able to spot those mistakes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh, it's funny. In one pack of drawings, I had the same part, different number on three pages, the same part. That happens. So, guess what I did? You gave it a new name. No, I I made the longest one, yeah. So I could always cut it down and make the other one.
SPEAKER_01So Doug, what do you what do you think? Um what do you what do you think differentiates a good welder versus a good fabricator?
SPEAKER_02That's difficult. That's like see, I'm both, right? But my focus is welding, but I can fabricate. Um you know, like a lot of companies that have, you know, more volume of employees, they'll have a fitter and a welder. The fitter's paid more, he's responsible for getting the parts and making sure they're the right spot, and they're you know, and they rely, um, the other welders will rely on him for information to give direction. We don't have that, right? And these custom shops, and I go back on my days in Vancouver Dr. Box, you did the whole thing, you shared your part, you made your part, formed it, whatever, and you welded it together and it's finished. I haven't got into painting, so yeah, you go through the whole thing, right? Whereas uh seems nowadays we get more focused, but now where I'm working, we're not, we're we're doing like we used to, and uh if I make a part wrong, it's on me to fix it now. Yeah, you can there's no you're stupid, you know. Well, no, I do that too myself.
SPEAKER_01You've got your little pocket welding mirror comes out every once in a while. What did you do?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, and then it's funny because you're trying to stay positive to keep yourself motivated, and you can get down, you know. Like if you make a series of mistakes, you know, one after another, and it's a different job, whatever, and you go like, Why am I doing this? You know, you gotta try to like in the past, I would actually walk away from what I'm doing, go get a drink, try to reset your brain, you know. You know, that's a great piece of advice. Oh, yeah, just it's like the two-year-old touching the stove, right? Never gonna do that again. Give them a candy, you know, it's changes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I've I've seen that in myself. I've worked with people too, where it's like they make a mistake and then they make another mistake, and then it's like the brain turns off, and then there's a certain pressure that gets applied. Like, well, I've already made these mistakes, I'm behind on time, I've wasted material, and then it just leads to another mistake, and then you know, there's two ways to go you get really angry or you get really sad.
SPEAKER_02You bring back another kid memory. So I was at my grandmother's washing the dishes because they cooked. I we had to clean, right? I'd break a dish, right? Next time go over there, I'd break a dish. Oh, go wash it. I'd break a dish. I must have done that six times. My grandmother came over, okay. No more washing for you, and uh and uh you realize you're more scared, you're gonna break the dish. So you break like it's like you're not breaking the dish.
SPEAKER_01Uh anyway, yeah, don't break a dish. Yeah, there's also the the thing that happens too is like you're you're so bad at something they'll never ask you to do it again.
SPEAKER_02Well, there is that topic that we should talk more about because some people don't want to do certain things and they will never try to achieve to be good. So, like you and I, we always everything we do, we try to do 100%. We try to have pride in what we do.
Advice For New Welders
SPEAKER_02And I watch these, you know, not where I'm working now, but I've seen people in the past where they've created garbage and they don't ask get asked to do it anymore, so you end up getting more load. Now you're having to take up that other um procedure or whatever, you know. It's like yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, Doug, I guess we kind of were touching on it or whatever, but what is what's a piece of advice before we wrap this thing up? What's a piece of advice that you would give a young welder out there that you'd give maybe yourself when you were a young man? Find a shop that wants you.
SPEAKER_02That's the hardest part. So you're not there just for the job, is they actually want you there. So, how do you do that? You either are like a car salesman trying to sell yourself, this is what I can do, and uh you know, I've even heard people I'll work for you for a week for free, so you can see how I am, you know. If you're at a shop that doesn't want you, and you can tell, don't be there. There's uh there's thousands of other shops. Go find a place that you fit, and that's like the biggest thing I think is the most important thing in our our trade is fit somewhere, you know.
SPEAKER_01Beware you can be proud of what you're doing, and so basically try your best, find a spot that you like, find a spot that makes you happy that you can find friends at. If you can't find friends there, you can find them on the internet.
SPEAKER_02That's it.
SPEAKER_01Lots of friends on the internet, yeah. Yeah, right on, Doug. Well, I appreciate you taking the time out to to jump on this episode with me, man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you too.
SPEAKER_01I need a sticker. Gotta send me the sticker. I gotta get stickers. Me too. I'm all out. All this time on Instagram. I've never had a sticker. I've you know, I've partnered up with people for stickers, but yeah, but those days, you know, they're they're different now. And Instagram is different now, hey.
SPEAKER_02It it seems to be the sticker craze for us as tradespeople. You know, I I got stuff from Plumbers Electrical, from you know, uh welding and construction and international people too, you know. And uh I still can't believe my board's full, you know. Four by eight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, four by eight sheet full of stickers from the community.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, imagine that everybody had to pay money for each one of those, they're like a buck each, right? At least, if not more. Some of them are worth probably you know, I've got one from uh Princess Auto. It's huge. You know, and yeah, CK Worldwide, Stanley Art, that's RST where I used to work.
SPEAKER_01They're almost like they're almost like currency. Yeah, when you think of it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Right on.
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks so much. You know, this has been another episode of the CWB Association Welding Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin. This was Doug. Thanks very much for listening. Make sure you like, subscribe, and share this with your friends.
SPEAKER_00You've been listening to the CWB Association Welding Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard today, rate our podcast and visit us at cwassociation.org to learn more. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or suggestions on what you'd like to learn about in the future. Please subscribe and thank you for listening.